EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[Superdad]

So the DACs-and-everything-else-sounds-the-same folks over at the ASR forum are already poking fun:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-etherregen.9260/#post-242009

"there is absolutely absolutely zero justification for fancy ethernet switches or "power conditioning" w/rt audio
...anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you"

 

Funny, they must think that we spent nearly two years--and a lot of $$--designing this expensive-to-produce switch simply as a money-grab. I can think of a lot of easier ways to make money! Remember too, we sell our products with a 30-day, money-back guarantee.  So the risk is more ours...

[Iving]

10 minutes ago, Superdad said:

So the DACs-and-everything-else-sounds-the-same folks over at the ASR forum are already poking fun:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-etherregen.9260/#post-242009

"there is absolutely absolutely zero justification for fancy ethernet switches or "power conditioning" w/rt audio
...anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you"

 

Funny, they must think that we spent nearly two years--and a lot of $$--designing this expensive-to-produce switch simply as a money-grab. I can think of a lot of easier ways to make money! Remember too, we sell our products with a 30-day, money-back guarantee.  So the risk is more ours...

 

mkawa's only been on ASR 2 minutes and already he's the most stridently dismissive pistol-packer there ...

lol

better than TV

I miss Rob

[Ultrarunner]

4 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

So this backwards approach would make the EtherRegen a substitute for an opticalModule. Have either of you made that comparison?

[Tubeburner]

21 minutes ago, Iving said:

So the DACs-and-everything-else-sounds-the-same folks over at the ASR forum are already poking fun:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-etherregen.9260/#post-242009

"there is absolutely absolutely zero justification for fancy ethernet switches or "power conditioning" w/rt audio
...anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you"

Funny Troll...I have a friend who has the competition's unit and he stated the improvement was not subtle. He said it was like buying a new component. The nay sawyers usually have their own agenda or believe wire is wire, ect. 

[Nay]

4 hours ago, nonesup said:

Yes it is correct, Melco can be configured to close the RJ45 port that goes to the Switch, but that is only useful if you are using a DAC connected by ethernet and THAT CAN BE HANDLED WITH BUTTONS IN THE DAC.  If this is not the case (99% of the cases), that is, you drive it from a tablet, you cannot use this mode.  It's what happened to me before, when I had my Lumin A1.

I have since found out that using my setup the one server completely isolates any network data to the second server being used for playback.

[Matias]

2 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

 

Would the optimal be switch>EtherRegen>Server>USB>ISORegen>DAC?

 

I have a similar setup.

That is one upgrade path I also have in mind.

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

So the DACs-and-everything-else-sounds-the-same folks over at the ASR forum are already poking fun:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-etherregen.9260/#post-242009

"there is absolutely absolutely zero justification for fancy ethernet switches or "power conditioning" w/rt audio
...anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you"

 

Funny, they must think that we spent nearly two years--and a lot of $$--designing this expensive-to-produce switch simply as a money-grab. I can think of a lot of easier ways to make money! Remember too, we sell our products with a 30-day, money-back guarantee.  So the risk is more ours...

This is the same site that diligently ranks almost a hundred DACs on a scale from 55 to 120 and then promotes the idea that all DACs sound the same. While the measurements are interesting, the commentary is absurd.

[Tubeburner]

6 minutes ago, lmitche said:

This is the same site that diligently ranks almost a hundred DACs on a scale from 55 to 120 and then promotes the idea that all DACs sound the same. While the measurements are interesting, the commentary is absurd.

True! I don't know of a measurement for musicality. Some things measure wonderfully and sound sterile and lifeless.

[firedog]

3 hours ago, Superdad said:

So the DACs-and-everything-else-sounds-the-same folks over at the ASR forum are already poking fun:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-etherregen.9260/#post-242009

"there is absolutely absolutely zero justification for fancy ethernet switches or "power conditioning" w/rt audio
...anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you"

 

Funny, they must think that we spent nearly two years--and a lot of $$--designing this expensive-to-produce switch simply as a money-grab. I can think of a lot of easier ways to make money! Remember too, we sell our products with a 30-day, money-back guarantee.  So the risk is more ours...

 

Basically, their claim is that there are no measurements to show improved output at the DAC end for any of these USB or ethernet clean up products: in other words, that all of this noise reduction doesn’t actually make any difference in the analog output at the DAC end. That if these products really make a difference, it would show up in the analog output. 

[lmitche]

Just now, Tubeburner said:

True! I don't know of a measurement for musicality. Some things measure wonderfully and sound sterile and lifeless.

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

[Jud]

17 minutes ago, firedog said:

 

Basically, their claim is that there are no measurements to show improved output at the DAC end for any of these USB or ethernet clean up products: in other words, that all of this noise reduction doesn’t actually make any difference in the analog output at the DAC end. That if these products really make a difference, it would show up in the analog output. 

 

I think I hear a difference with some of these things (some I've liked, and some I haven't); I may well be wrong. But if I'm wrong, my mistaken opinion of how my system sounds is most pleasant!  

 

I always liked the joke about the distraught parents who take their child to the psychiatrist because she thinks she's a chicken. When the psychiatrist voices confidence in a quick cure, the parents hesitate, and when the psychiatrist looks at them quizzically, the father explains with some embarrassment, "We like the eggs."

 

I like the eggs.   

 

Meanwhile, though @Superdad started us off, perhaps we ought to get back to EtherREGEN....

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

 

I think I hear a difference with some of these things (some I've liked, and some I haven't); I may well be wrong. But if I'm wrong, my mistaken opinion of how my system sounds is most pleasant!  

 

I always liked the joke about the distraught parents who take their child to the psychiatrist because she thinks she's a chicken. When the psychiatrist voices confidence in a quick cure, the parents hesitate, and when the psychiatrist looks at them quizzically, the father explains with some embarrassment, "We like the eggs."

 

I like the eggs.   

 

Meanwhile, though @Superdad started us off, perhaps we ought to get back to EtherREGEN....

My suspicion is that someday we will learn that some people are music blind, or hear in various shades of gray.

[JohnSwenson]

6 hours ago, Musikfan said:

One more question: does it matter if one uses a 7v, 9v or 12v power supply, and does it matter if they are 2a power supplies? I have a few extra ifi power supplies I could use.

Personally I would never use the iPower supply for any purpose. I found them to have the highest leakage current of any power supply I have tested (by a long shot, they were much worse than the second worst). I would just use the supply that comes with it.

 

John S.

[LewinskiH01]

2 hours ago, Matias said:

That is one upgrade path I also have in mind.

 

Food for thought:

Path a): get an EtherRegen, then an IsoRegen.

Path b): avoid the craze to get one of the first batch etherRegen, go now for IsoRegen, in a couple months when the dust settles get an etherRegen. This is what I'm planning, although my location gets in the way.

 

My 0.1 cent 

[sahmen]

44 minutes ago, LewinskiH01 said:

 

Food for thought:

Path a): get an EtherRegen, then an IsoRegen.

Path b): avoid the craze to get one of the first batch etherRegen, go now for IsoRegen, in a couple months when the dust settles get an etherRegen. This is what I'm planning, although my location gets in the way.

 

My 0.1 cent 

Might I ask what sonic advantages an isoRegen might bring to the table? I have always assumed that the EtherRegen would make the use of any isoRegen redundant (if not counterintuitive, but I could be wrong..., which is why I am asking)

[LewinskiH01]

12 minutes ago, sahmen said:

Might I ask what sonic advantages an isoRegen might bring to the table? I have always assumed that the EtherRegen would make the use of any isoRegen redundant (if not counterintuitive, but I could be wrong..., which is why I am asking)

Of course Alex and John are best suited to answer this. I don't have an IsoRegen,  but my understanding is they do different things. The Iso does impedance matching between computer and DAC, while etherRegen block DC leakage from ethernet and noise coming through it. Complementary tasks, it seems.

[sahmen]

General question : Is what people are calling "switch" simply another name for a "router," at least in some of the cases?

 

I plan to position the EtherRegen between my Asus Router and my Metrum Acoustics Amber, which in turn feeds two DACs for two different rigs, the Yggdrasil A2 (via AES) and the Metrum Acoustics Onyx (via i2S) Ethernet,  I hope this works well.

 

Asus Router ==>> EtherRegen ==>> Metrum Acoustics Ambre(AES)==>> Yggy A2 ==>>Violectric V281

                                                                                                      \\ (i2S)===>>Metrum Onyx ==>>Cavalli LP

 

(I have 2 IsoRegens that I am currently not using. If it is indeed an advantage to place one in the chain, I wouldn't know where to insert it for optimal results)

 

 

[sahmen]

5 minutes ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Of course Alex and John are best suited to answer this. I don't have an IsoRegen,  but my understanding is they do different things. The Iso does impedance matching between computer and DAC, while etherRegen block DC leakage from ethernet and noise coming through it. Complementary tasks, it seems.

Thanks for the answer, I would like to have the input of Alex and John as well. It would be nice to know if I can use one of my IsoRegens for even more enhancements in the chain (s) I have described above.

[Jud]

5 minutes ago, sahmen said:

General question : Is what people are calling "switch" simply another name for a "router," at least in some of the cases?

 

I plan to position the EtherRegen between my Asus Router and my Metrum Acoustics Amber, which in turn feeds two DACs for two different rigs, the Yggdrasil A2 (via AES) and the Metrum Acoustics Onyx (via i2S) Ethernet,  I hope this works well.

 

(I have 2 IsoRegens that I am currently not using. If it is indeed an advantage to place one in the chain, I wouldn't know where to insert it for optimal results)

 

 

 

A switch and router usually perform different network functions. A router assigns local IP addresses and acts as a firewall between a home network and the Internet. It also usually has Wi-Fi capabilities.

 

A switch distributes Ethernet to multiple locations (something a router can also do).

[Jud]

In my chain the switch precedes the microRendu and the IsoREGEN is between the microRendu and the DAC, so there would be room for both the IsoREGEN and EtherREGEN in that configuration.

[sahmen]

1 minute ago, Jud said:

In my chain the switch precedes the microRendu and the IsoREGEN is between the microRendu and the DAC, so there would be room for both the IsoREGEN and EtherREGEN in that configuration.

Okay, Got it!  Thanks. I originally got one of the IsoRegens with the intention of using it with my Ultrarendu, but I was never able to determine conclusively from the few readings I did on this site at that time whether the IsoRegen was more helpful inserted in the chain or left out of it. There was also a question of whether to get a different power supply for the IsoRegen or not. Anyway, I stopped using the Ultrarendu (temporarily) when I got the Ambre, so I left the whole IsoRegen question unresolved and suspended. I have since got an LPS 1.2 that I can use with one IsoRegen, so if I can use it for more optimization, I'd like to know it.

[ChrisG]

On 10/2/2019 at 4:27 PM, EVOLVIST said:

 

Yeah, that's good. I'd like to hear your impressions. I'll be sure to give mine. 

 

My Linn KDS/3 isn't a Roon endpoint, so I have to go from a SonicTransporter, into my router, and then into the Linn ]. So, the etherREGEN should sit between my router and my Linn. I guess it's the same difference between going from the wall straight yo your DAC, because if the etherREGEN works like it's supposed to to, it will cure any ills that comes before your DAC/Streamer, yeah?

 

Yeah.

Not sure what you mean by the KDS not being a Roon endpoint. While it is true that you can't group Linn DS units with other Roon endpoints, it should show up in Roon as a Roon Ready device. I know my KDSM does, and I was an Alpha tester when Roon & Linn were working out the kinks. 

[JohnSwenson]

12 hours ago, sahmen said:

General question : Is what people are calling "switch" simply another name for a "router," at least in some of the cases?

 

 

A switch is a device that has 3 or more ports and passes packets between ports. Keeps track of what devices are connected to what port, so when it gets incoming packets it knows what port to send the packet to. Most switches can also do speed changes (say one port is connected to a 100Mbps device and another is connected to a gigabit switch. In a standard simple switch all the devices need to be on the same LAN (ie using the same subnet address). This description gets a little trickier when using VLANs, but I won't go into that here.

 

What is usually called a "router" for home use usually contains at least four usually 5 functions in one box, WAY more complicated than a switch. The residential routers usually contains a router, firewall, DHCP server, switch and WAP.

 

Router: routes packets between networks, such as the internet and your local home network, or between local networks if you have setup more than one in your house.

 

Firewall: a device that has a set of rules designed to keep bad stuff out of your network. The primary use of this is between the internet and your home network, but can also be between local networks, such as between a hardwired house network and a guest WiFi network.

 

DHCP server:  dynamically assigns IP addresses to the devices on your network. 

 

Switch: we already talked about that. Many residential routers have four ports that are on the built in switch.

 

WAP: Wireless Access Point. Creates a WiFi network and connects it to the other functions. It may be on the same LAN as the main switch, or it may be a separate subnet, VLAN etc.

 

Sometimes this device will also have a modem to connect to your physical medium from your ISP (cable, fiberoptic, phone line etc).

 

Oh I forgot, space heater, some of these boxes take a lot of power to do these functions and put off a lot of heat.

 

All of these can be in one box or split up into two or more boxes. For example my home network has a separate Cable modem, a box which has router, firewall and DHCP server, a big main switch, several sub switches and a couple WAPs.

 

When you get into separate boxes there are MANY different ways to setup a network.

 

John S.

[Matias]

8 hours ago, sahmen said:

Okay, Got it!  Thanks. I originally got one of the IsoRegens with the intention of using it with my Ultrarendu, but I was never able to determine conclusively from the few readings I did on this site at that time whether the IsoRegen was more helpful inserted in the chain or left out of it. There was also a question of whether to get a different power supply for the IsoRegen or not. Anyway, I stopped using the Ultrarendu (temporarily) when I got the Ambre, so I left the whole IsoRegen question unresolved and suspended. I have since got an LPS 1.2 that I can use with one IsoRegen, so if I can use it for more optimization, I'd like to know it.

You should definitely try an ISO Regen after the ultraRendu. I used it here and it does make a difference. Most likely after an opticalRendu as well.

 

In my case the option would be to upgrade the generic switch to an EtherRegen an keep the ultraRendu. Or keep the generic switch and upgrade to an opticalModule + opticalRendu combo. Decisions...

[Bones13]

Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 4 + EdgeSwitch 8-150w + WAP ftw!

 

As I am not a networking, nor electronic, wiz, I required a lot of reading, and YouTube research, to set it up to my liking. But - rock solid.

 

etherRegen will replace the last unmanaged switch before the Bricasti.