Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

[firedog]

1 hour ago, fpalm69 said:

How do I get the playlist into Roon?

Open look in Qobuz web. Click on open in Qobuz (app); favorite in app.

[ragwo]

@baconbrain

What is the # of the post with the Tidal playlist? Couldn't find it on page 20-30. 

[Cazzesman]

Well that was a fatal mistake. 😛

 

I just had a mate come over to pick up my previous active speakers (for a test drive) as he has had his eye on them for some time and might be keen to buy.

 

After listening to my Kii 3's for 40 mins all he could talk about was how he could find the money for a pair.   Thankfully for me his budget only runs to my old pair of Actives and not a new pair of Kii 3's.

 

His words were............"Nowhere to go from here now you have these."    As Stringer Bell might say......True dat!!!!!

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

PS.   You can perhaps tell my wife and I have just started re-watching 'The Wire' via a DVD Box set.    8 episodes into Season 1.

Omar and The Bunk rule!

 

 

 

[baconbrain]

5 hours ago, ragwo said:

@baconbrain

What is the # of the post with the Tidal playlist? Couldn't find it on page 20-30. 

Here the link:

https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/768432eb-b8ba-4a1d-b90a-a4c9a9ba8d85

 

[ragwo]

1 hour ago, baconbrain said:

Here the link:

https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/768432eb-b8ba-4a1d-b90a-a4c9a9ba8d85

 

Thanks a lot! 

[AMR/iFi audio]

11 hours ago, Cazzesman said:

Nowhere to go from here now you have these

 

Kii seems to stop (most of ) further audio expenses rather efficiently. Wait, wasn't this the point of such a product in the first place?

[Bernstein]

12 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Kii seems to stop (most of ) further audio expenses rather efficiently. Wait, wasn't this the point of such a product in the first place?

 

Partly yes. Coming from a CD Player type of setup I needed to buy 

 

- Roon server

- LPS for Roon server and switch 

- „good“ Ethernet cables

- Roon Endpoint

- LPS for Roon Endpoint 

- DC cables 

 

Just trying to cry 😎

 

Do anybody can distinguish the stock cable with „better“ one. This is the only thing I don’t want to upgrade. 

[ragwo]

1 minute ago, Bernstein said:

 

Partly yes. Coming from a CD Player type of setup I needed to buy 

 

- Roon server

- LPS for Roon server and switch 

- „good“ Ethernet cables

- Roon Endpoint

- LPS for Roon Endpoint 

- DC cables 

 

Just trying to cry 😎

I feel your wallet's pain, been through the same scenario. After a while and a demo you'll need the BXT's. Haven't demoed BXT yet but still I believe I need a pair, my wife believes I need a reality check. 

[Bernstein]

1 minute ago, ragwo said:

I feel your wallet's pain, been through the same scenario. After a while and a demo you'll need the BXT's. Haven't demoed BXT yet but still I believe I need a pair, my wife believes I need a reality check. 

 

Your wife has some humor! 

I tested the BXT against the KII Three (you can switch them of/off). There is a difference, but not worlds! With high SPL yes, but it depends on your room. In my experience there is no bass bump which could be expected. It’s makes the presentation a little more organic and comforts you more with high SPL. Depends totally on your room and listening levels. 

 

Nevertheless: I will also upgrade in some years 🥳😂🤘

[coot]

But a review comment said bxt goes down to 12hz. One should be able to tell that xtra half octave, no?

 

[PleasantSounds]

7 hours ago, coot said:

But a review comment said bxt goes down to 12hz. One should be able to tell that xtra half octave, no?

 

 

Well you won't hear it, but your jewels may start vibrating, given enough SPL.

 

The Kii THREE themselves go down to 5 Hz, but the only way to tell is by looking at the drivers: not enough energy there to cause any other response. And that may be a good thing.

 

[AMR/iFi audio]

21 hours ago, Bernstein said:

- Roon server

- LPS for Roon server and switch 

- „good“ Ethernet cables

- Roon Endpoint

- LPS for Roon Endpoint 

- DC cables 

 

Although fairly long, this list isn't terribly expensive to address. And once that's done, you're golden, no amps, speakers etc. At least for 'some time' 

[bobfa]

On 7/4/2019 at 4:31 PM, Bernstein said:

 

Partly yes. Coming from a CD Player type of setup I needed to buy 

 

- Roon server

- LPS for Roon server and switch 

- „good“ Ethernet cables

- Roon Endpoint

- LPS for Roon Endpoint 

- DC cables 

 

Just trying to cry 😎

 

Do anybody can distinguish the stock cable with „better“ one. This is the only thing I don’t want to upgrade. 

So, try this.

Signature Rendu SE has its own LPS!  And does some other interesting software tricks.  MPD, LMS, etc.....

Ghent JSSG360 USB cable (Seems good to me!)

Optical networking from the Rendu.  (I am using Ubiquity on my whole network and they have optical built into my switch)

 

If you need a Roon Server there are a LOT of options that let you scale up.  

[fpalm69]

Supra cable work well for me - excellent quality, fast shipping with returns allowed and very reasonably priced. Supras on the Ethernet on the speakers and network, USB to the Kii Control, and power cables to the Kiis.  Noticed a slight increase in SQ for each cable I added in the system.

Affirmative on the Sonore gear.... had the opticalModule + opticalRendu and was so impress I just ordered the Signature Rendu SE optical.  That's coming from an Auralic Aries G2 and the SOtM trio.

The Kiis are so transparent you will hear any upstream change.

[Bernstein]

5 hours ago, bobfa said:

So, try this.

Signature Rendu SE has its own LPS!  And does some other interesting software tricks.  MPD, LMS, etc.....

Ghent JSSG360 USB cable (Seems good to me!)

Optical networking from the Rendu.  (I am using Ubiquity on my whole network and they have optical built into my switch)

 

If you need a Roon Server there are a LOT of options that let you scale up.  

 

Thanks.

 

I went with

 

- Allo DigiOne Signature fed by UpTone LPS 1.2 + Keces P8 for RPI

- Keces P8 for Roon Core and Switch 

- Sonictransporter i5

[Cazzesman]

Morning all,

 

I'm just after some clarification re the Boundary/Contour adjustments if you could please.   Without the Controller the adjustments for both are via the adjustable screws on the rear of the unit.   With the Controller the adjustments for both are within.   You have the Low shelf and High shelf adjustments with both having frequencies adjustment +/- db.

 

My question is..................... after your selection are made you only have 2 different frequencies you can adjust overall i.e High and Low.   Is that correct or am I missing something.   It's not like a Graphic EQ where you may have 6 or 8 points you can plot and adjust?

 

Also a question re 'Head-room'.    Currently my Kii's are placed 1 metre from the front of the speaker to the wall behind.  They are .5 metres off each side wall with a toe in of 50mil from parallel (Degrees?)    Reading some info on the Kii's it was suggested that "When pushed further into a corner it provides the Kii's with more headroom, meaning they don't have to work as hard to produce the bass energy".  I get that the corners increases the bass, but is that only from an spl perspective or also a lower htz output? i.e from 15 down to 12 at the same spl.   

 

I intend on doing some placement testing but I just want to get my head around the science first.

 

I currently still have 1st and 2nd refection points covered with treatment.  I still have the treatment traps in the corners to the rear of the speakers.     My room shape is basically 3 mts x 3 mts that then comes into 6 x 4.   So the speakers are firing from the 3 metre end the length of 9 metres with 3.2 mt ceilings.   Tweeter to tweeter is 1.64 metres.

 

Aside from..............just suck it and see......................any science to the trying that I need to know please.

 

Regards Cazzesman

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, Cazzesman said:

Morning all,

 

I'm just after some clarification re the Boundary/Contour adjustments if you could please.   Without the Controller the adjustments for both are via the adjustable screws on the rear of the unit.   With the Controller the adjustments for both are within.   You have the Low shelf and High shelf adjustments with both having frequencies adjustment +/- db.

 

My question is..................... after your selection are made you only have 2 different frequencies you can adjust overall i.e High and Low.   Is that correct or am I missing something.   It's not like a Graphic EQ where you may have 6 or 8 points you can plot and adjust?

 

Also a question re 'Head-room'.    Currently my Kii's are placed 1 metre from the front of the speaker to the wall behind.  They are .5 metres off each side wall with a toe in of 50mil from parallel (Degrees?)    Reading some info on the Kii's it was suggested that "When pushed further into a corner it provides the Kii's with more headroom, meaning they don't have to work as hard to produce the bass energy".  I get that the corners increases the bass, but is that only from an spl perspective or also a lower htz output? i.e from 15 down to 12 at the same spl.   

 

I intend on doing some placement testing but I just want to get my head around the science first.

 

I currently still have 1st and 2nd refection points covered with treatment.  I still have the treatment traps in the corners to the rear of the speakers.     My room shape is basically 3 mts x 3 mts that then comes into 6 x 4.   So the speakers are firing from the 3 metre end the length of 9 metres with 3.2 mt ceilings.   Tweeter to tweeter is 1.64 metres.

 

Aside from..............just suck it and see......................any science to the trying that I need to know please.

 

Regards Cazzesman

The tone control system on the Kii Three is called a Baxandall system that is implemented in the DSP.

 

http://makearadio.com/tech/tone.htm

 

 

I would highly suggest that you do not adjust the tonal curves until you have the position and boundary settings where you want them.  I cannot comment on your room or your existing room controls.  I would still suggest that you consider removing everything and start over with the Kii Three and the room with the normal furniture. Floor coverings, etc..  You may end up in the same place but you will never know if you need those treatment levels.  This speaker system is not like anything else out there.

 

If my example helps here we go: My room is about 12 x 20 feet with large openings to the left of the speakers and at the far end.  I have my speakers set about 5 in from the front wall and about 12 in from the side walls.  I am happy with a setting of -11 on both speakers.  I only have had them in the room for a few months and had about five experienced listeners over.  At this point I am considering moving them out just a little bit to see what happens.  I would say less that 1 foot from the front wall.  This is an experiment to see what the effect on soundstage is.  NOTE that this is my family living room and the POINT is to creat a shared listening space.  I have some instagram posts showing the system.

 

Before we get to the science remember that your “ear” is adapted to your old system.  It takes a while to unlearn that sound.

 

The science here is the K.I.S.S. method.  

Setup the system so it LOOKS good to others.  Do not pull the speakers out into the room, that kind of stuff. Get all the extra stuff out of the room.  Do not change more than one thing at a time! Take notes.  If you are moving speakers.  Put tape measures down next to each one and move them 1/2in at at time.  I do not think that at this stage Toe-in is as important as distance from that wall and the settings on the speakers.  Think about that cardioid  pattern out of the  of the speaker. You need some music with low end bass that you understand how you think it should sound.  Use that for reference.  Kii suggests kick drum. Then mix up a combination of music to keep the boredom down and expose the nuances from other music.  

 

Here are some ideas:

 

The Telarc Copland Fanfare for the Common Man.  

BT (untitled). Artifacture

Blade Runner 2049 intro track

Dominique Fils-aime Nameless the track Birds

Trentemoller   The Last Resort the track Evil Dub

 

Try the Roger Waters track “The Legend of Bill Hubbard” for some interesting staging effects.  I am pretty sure they used QSOUND on that one and it is fun.

 

Try some Lisa Lynne harp and flute music. I do not know what you normally listen to but make sure to add some more complex music into the mix.  Get some other listeners in there with you.  

 

I am still working on my digital front end for the Kii Threes and have recently made some changes that are significant.  This may show my position and settings need adjustment. I will discuss that on a separate thread when the time is right and the changes are settled down.  

 

Bob

 

PS Sorry to use US measurements.  We are so far behind. 

 

[Ralf11]

AFAIK, almost every modern HiFi unit has the Baxandall tone controls - it wiped out everything else

[Bernstein]

What are using as feet for the stands? I have hardfloor and looking for protective but good sounding solution. 

[ragwo]

1 hour ago, Bernstein said:

What are using as feet for the stands? I have hardfloor and looking for protective but good sounding solution. 

I'm using Soundcare Superspikes. Been using them for years, works well. 

[Bernstein]

1 minute ago, ragwo said:

I'm using Soundcare Superspikes. Been using them for years, works well. 

May I request a picture of them far and near to get an impression? Did you glue the fabric on them or without? Is the thread of the stands deep enough?

[Bernstein]

On 7/6/2019 at 7:04 AM, Bernstein said:

 

Thanks.

 

I went with

 

- Allo DigiOne Signature fed by UpTone LPS 1.2 + Keces P8 for RPI

- Keces P8 for Roon Core and Switch 

- Sonictransporter i5

 

Forgot to mention: AudioQuest Diamond SPDIF and all DC Cables from Ghent (JSSG360 with Gotham) --> need time too arrive. 

PS: Looking forward to see how the EtherRegen from Uptone could improve things

[ragwo]

17 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

May I request a picture of them far and near to get an impression? Did you glue the fabric on them or without? Is the thread of the stands deep enough?

I will upload a picture as soon as possible. I use the fabric underneath, makes it easy to move the speakers around without damaging the floor. Forgot to mention that I use a pair of old Target stands, it's a poor man's solution but works well. 

[Bernstein]

2 minutes ago, ragwo said:

I will upload a picture as soon as possible. I use the fabric underneath, makes it easy to move the speakers around without damaging the floor. Forgot to mention that I use a pair of old Target stands, it's a poor man's solution but works well. 

Thanks a lot! Target is not a "poor man's solution". I would rather want to know if the length is compatible with the Kii Three stands. On this picture it looks like, but not really high res to zoom in  

[ragwo]

The spikes are secured with a tightening nut so wobbling is out of the question. Are you worried about instability or the height of the speakers?