USB audio cracked... finally!

[CuteStudio]

5 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

I'm afraid you look at it wrongly or don't use the proper program for that. This was about that Pirates track, right ?

 

 

 

Well it's certainly not that one, how strange!. I actually just used an MP3 (left over from the time I had to use them for my iPod Touch) but I don't see how it would have changed that much, unless the MP3s are from a different source or the iTunes ripper did something to it for some reason. I've never seen fit to re-rip it as it was so awful, but I'll dive into the loft when I get a moment to dig it out from one of the 'won't be needing that again' boxes and re-rip it as wav for another look. One never knows..!

[PeterSt]

57 minutes ago, CuteStudio said:

Well it's certainly not that one, how strange!.

 

Listening to it now. And uhm ... despite what the whole world may say about this ... I think it sounds superb. But maybe I have a bit of a special system.

 

So what you may trip on is the I think synth bass in the first 4 tracks, which explicitly distorts. In the Pirates track there's an I think Rhodes piano with drawbar sound (there are distorted sines (sinuses)). So again distortion. But all on purpose.

 

Where an album like this can fail on you is the silence in it while all instruments are way loud. I expect the DR to be So-So but *because* half of it is silence, the sounds are really forceful. This includes that basses, especially the beautiful voice (no distortion there anywhere). I am now into track 6 ("Waiting") and there you have the low keyed again very forceful guitar with in the back also the bass guitar. There's also sub-low in this track. Especially this will (!) let your woofer distort without you really noticing because now yo think it is a synth bass. Haha.

In the 7th track there's this piano again, all "oversteered" on purpose.

 

And night you have read what I all said about my Metal endeavors fro the past days ... the family never blinking an eye, just now I received the question "is this a new one of her ?" -> No, I don;t think so. "Well, it sounds way better than her first attempts".

(I never play Norah Jones) 

[fas42]

6 hours ago, Doak said:

 

Great that something so simple works for you. 

Such simplicity would not result in the quality/type of sound many of us are getting out our music systems, however. It's another one of those age old questions/debates - as old as music reproduction. 

 

What's "simple" for me is hearing whether the sound is correct or not - and that, yes, simply means that there is nothing in the sound that disturbs me, draws my attention to the fact that I'm only listening to reproduction - it is as per the "real thing", the same vitality and sense of specialness pervades what's happening around me - I'm certainly not just staring at a pair of speakers squawking away, trying to imitate life, and quite obviously not succeeding ...

 

A good fortune occurred to me 30 years ago - the system, extremely simple in its nature - that word again - snapped into place, totally unexpectedly. I was literally staggered, I had no expectation or experiences of this - it was the full deal; speakers 100% invisible, and a sense of space that was overwhelming. Super expensive rigs I heard after that were ludicrously incompetent, in comparison. So, one thing is indeed simple - knowing what the goal is ...

 

However, achieving that is not simple - that's hard work, obsessive attention to detail, never being satisfied with "almost good enough" - worrying about "balancing" aspects of how the sound comes across is not the way.

[Doak]

On 11/25/2017 at 5:54 PM, fas42 said:

 

What's "simple" for me is hearing whether the sound is correct or not - and that, yes, simply means that there is nothing in the sound that disturbs me, draws my attention to the fact that I'm only listening to reproduction - it is as per the "real thing", the same vitality and sense of specialness pervades what's happening around me - I'm certainly not just staring at a pair of speakers squawking away, trying to imitate life, and quite obviously not succeeding ...

 

A good fortune occurred to me 30 years ago - the system, extremely simple in its nature - that word again - snapped into place, totally unexpectedly. I was literally staggered, I had no expectation or experiences of this - it was the full deal; speakers 100% invisible, and a sense of space that was overwhelming. Super expensive rigs I heard after that were ludicrously incompetent, in comparison. So, one thing is indeed simple - knowing what the goal is ...

 

However, achieving that is not simple - that's hard work, obsessive attention to detail, never being satisfied with "almost good enough" - worrying about "balancing" aspects of how the sound comes across is not the way.

 

Seems we are quite possibly pursuing similar goals ,,, just have different ways of expressing it.

[fas42]

3 hours ago, Doak said:

 

Seems we are quite possibly pursuing similar goals ,,, just have different ways of expressing it.

 

Highly likely, . From what others have said, how they've recounted some audio experiences they've had - there's a common thread. That being, at some time point of time, in some particular circumstance, they've heard a system, their own or somebody else's, deliver a burst of "magic" sound - which has knocked their socks off. Which galvanises them to assiduously pursue repeating the experience ...

 

Because of the circumstances of the original experience, a belief forms that "there is a way", which must be followed for success - and the followers tend to stick pretty strongly to that path. My particular shtick is understanding how far one can push extracting high SQ, in terms of cheapness, and variety of equipment - the good news is that amazingly pedestrian gear can deliver the goods, if one understands what's particularly important, and what can be largely ignored.

[Speed Racer]

On 11/23/2017 at 10:41 AM, barrows said:

@CuteStudio, My system includes a fully isolated (galvanic) USB input on my DAC with full re-clocking after the isolation as well.  Still, the difference in sound between the LUSH and the Inakustik (I mention Inakustik specifically because this cable highlights the differences in the extreme, while it is still an excellent performer and preferred in some system balances) is not subtle at all, again this difference is easily noted within a couple of seconds of playback as it is very, very easily heard.  While I never test blind (anymore), I have confirmed these differences with demonstrating these two cables for other listeners, without them having any prior knowledge what to expect: I would just say listen to this, then make the change, without giving the (non-audiophile) listener any prior idea what to expect, or even to expect any difference at all-the result still being the same.

 

I would suggest that if you have avoided auditioning high end USB cables because of a "belief system", rather than actual experience, that you are missing out on significant performance increases for your system.

 

My plan was to get a Roon endpoint that did not even have USB as an option. But, I was unable to find a Roon endpoint that I liked from a performance/value perspective that offered SPDIF or AES as an option, much less minus USB. I did a lot of research and some listening and decided on the ultraRendu.

 

Well, since I decided to buy an ultraRendu to use as a Roon endpoint, I had to get serious about using USB in my digital chain. My DAC, an Yggdrasil with Gen 5 USB, also has a fully isolated (galvanic) USB input. That, combined with the stellar USB output of the ultraRendu, meant that I did not want or need a USB decrapifier between the DAC and the ultraRendu. I had been using a "Straight Wire" USB cable that I bought from Schiit Audio to use with my Mimby. I figured it was time to try a more upscale USB cable to see if there was any gain to be had. With all the hoopla surrounding the Phasure "Lush" cable, it seemed like a logical choice. Especially since I had been skeptical that it could have a positive impact with all DACs. I decided to buy the 70 cm version to see how it sounded.

 

I've only listened to my system with the Lush USB cable for a few hours. But, to my surprise, the cable seems to have improved the sound quality. It's not a huge difference. It's not like I went from "smeared and veiled" with "zero musicality" to the opposite. I am getting a slightly more defined and taller soundstage. Instruments and voices have more distinct locations in that soundstage. I am having to increase the volume to get the same sense of sound pressure. That's a little strange as I was not expecting that nor do I have an explanation as to the cause. I also get a sense that the sound is smoother (less digital) but more full. I have not been able to listen long enough to tell if I am getting less detail with that.

 

I am not an A/B kind of listener. I need to listen to the setup with the Lush USB cable for a while and then put the old cable back in place for a while to be able to tell which I really like more. Initial impressions are positive but that may be "I just spent almost $300 so it better sound better" expectation bias. I'll know for sure in a week or two.

[PeterSt]

21 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

But, to my surprise, the cable seems to have improved the sound quality.

 

But wait. For a Lush cable which goes from Holland to Germany to Pennsylvania  to Kentucky to Germany to the United Kingdom to Pennsylvania  to Kentucky to California to some missed UPS trailer to finally You ...

... there is a LOT of world wide experience in this cable. All gained in 3 days only (quite unbelievable, in fact).

 

Or wasn't that you ? 

 

But yes, try to let is stay in for several days and never put back the other during that time (no A-B indeed). Then, on a day that the music annoys you (this happens to everybody once in a while, I'd say) put back your old cable. Then you will know.

 

Thank you for a nice report !

Peter

[Speed Racer]

1 minute ago, PeterSt said:

 

But wait. For a Lush cable which goes from Holland to Germany to Pennsylvania  to Kentucky to Germany to the United Kingdom to Pennsylvania  to Kentucky to California to some missed UPS trailer to finally You ...

... there is a LOT of world wide experience in this cable. All gained in 3 days only (quite unbelievable, in fact).

 

Or wasn't that you ? 

 

But yes, try to let is stay in for several days and never put back the other during that time (no A-B indeed). Then, on a day that the music annoys you (this happens to everybody once in a while, I'd say) put back your old cable. Then you will know.

 

Thank you for a nice report !

Peter

 

Yes, that was me! To cap it off, the delivery was made at about 6:45PM local time by some UPS guy delivering orphan packages from the trunk of his personal car. Very strange! It was even funnier because he looked in the trunk (boot) first, then the back seat, then the front seat, then the back seat again, then, finally, he found it in the trunk (boot).

 

You should know by now that I call 'em as I see them. So far, the Lush USB cable sure seems to sound better than what I had.

 

Do you have any ideas on why it seems like I need to turn up the volume a bit to get the same sense of sound pressure from the music? 

 

 

[PeterSt]

1 minute ago, Speed Racer said:

Yes, that was me!

 

Ha !

 

But there's another one which traveled the same route, I just saw. Only the end point was a bit different.

From Holland to Germany to Pennsylvania  to Kentucky to Germany to the United Kingdom to Kentucky to some late flight to Michigan to finally The Customer ... Also managed in 3 days.

 

Just now, Speed Racer said:

Do you have any ideas on why it seems like I need to turn up the volume a bit to get the same sense of sound pressure from the music?

 

Theoretically because of less distortion. So say that where the highs jumped out because of being false (it is distortion really) you can play louder because it does not annoy. From there - but it does it by itself already to some degree - there is more umpf under everything. More fundament.

[manisandher]

50 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

With all the hoopla surrounding the Phasure "Lush" cable, it seemed like a logical choice. Especially since I had been skeptical that it could have a positive impact with all DACs. I decided to buy the 70 cm version to see how it sounded.

 

Wow, what a pleasant surprise to see this post this morning. Look forward to hearing more thoughts in time...

 

Mani.

[barrows]

@Speed Racer, your observation of "fuller" sound was exactly inline with my experience.  In fact, my non-audiophile friend who I had listen to a comparison (I gave hime no expectation, just asked him if he heard any difference between the LUSH and another USB cable), said "more full" as his description of the LUSH.

[fas42]

13 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Theoretically because of less distortion. So say that where the highs jumped out because of being false (it is distortion really) you can play louder because it does not annoy. From there - but it does it by itself already to some degree - there is more umpf under everything. More fundament.

 

"Fuller" sound, a subjective sense of a diference in volume, with the same gain setting, are all markers of getting closer to sound which has no artifacts from the playback system mixed in. It all can be related to the experience of listening to 'natural' sounds - as an experiment, get someone to play a musical instrument, or failing that, some other quite intense sound - and 'observe' how your hearing reacts to that sound, as you get closer, and further from the source. Our hearing system adapts to the volume in a very instinctive manner, and can handle moments of sharp SPLs with complete ease - and that's exactly how competent playback will come across - it mirrors how 'natural' sounds are preceived.

[Speed Racer]

Okay, I've had time to let everything burn-in. That would be the ultraRendu, Lush USB cable, and the Teddy Pardo linear power supply. I also had time to do some comparisons too.

 

I must say that compared to when I was running the ultraRendu with an iFi iPower SMPS and "Straight Wire" USB cable,  the music is much less fatiguing to listen to. This is most noticeable higher ranges as there is much less sibilance in tracks prone to it. I am able to play tracks 5 to 10 dB louder if I want, not that I do, without any sense of irritation. At first I thought there was a loss of detail but that is not the case. In fact, there is a little bit more detail. The sound is just smoother and more musical. The soundstage is a bit more defined and has more height. The sound has less of that digital harshness and more of the smoothness I associate with unconverted analog sources.

 

Based on my testing, I attribute the smoothness to the signal entering the DAC getting cleaner power and signals. When I decided to listen to my system without the Lush USB cable, I went all the way. I put the "Straight Wire" USB cable back in, I pulled the Teddy Pardo LPS, and plugged the audio system power strip straight into the wall instead of the Topaz isolation transformer. Wow, the system sure sounded different. It wasn't bad. It just wasn't near what I had before. At that point I tried putting the Teddy Pardo back in. Then I took that out and put the Lush cable in. Then I took that back out and put the Topaz back in. Of those three by themselves, the Topaz made the biggest improvement in sound. In fact, both the Lush cable and the Teddy Pardo made comparatively small improvements without the Topaz in place. With the Topaz in place, both the Lush cable and the Teddy Pardo made much more significant improvements to the sound. It's hard to say, but I would say that the Lush cable and the Teddy Pardo power supply equally improved the sound. The Lush cable seemed to have the most impact with both the Topaz and the Teddy Pardo in place.

 

So what did I find out? I found out that music sounds better with the Lush USB cable in place. The Lush USB cable does something to reduce the workload of the USB PHY in my Yggdrasil with Gen 5 USB. I also found out that the Topaz isolation transformer is critical to getting the best sound quality out of my system. I found that a quality LPS in place of an SMPS helps sound quality a lot too.

 

Finally, I found out that how the system works together is the most important factor in getting the best sound quality.

[sandyk]

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 6:54 PM, Speed Racer said:

Do you have any ideas on why it seems like I need to turn up the volume a bit to get the same sense of sound pressure from the music? 

 

 As others have said so many times before, it is due to less low level wide band noise masking the signal.

Low level noise can cause a degree of harshness which may make things sound a little louder.

Did female voices also sound perhaps a little sweeter/less sibilant and more individual too ?

 Sounds like your Teddy Pardo PSU was a worthwhile investment too, due to it's very low noise output.

[Doak]

1 hour ago, Speed Racer said:

Okay, I've had time to let everything burn-in. That would be the ultraRendu, Lush USB cable, and the Teddy Pardo linear power supply. I also had time to do some comparisons too.

 

I must say that compared to when I was running the ultraRendu with an iFi iPower SMPS and "Straight Wire" USB cable,  the music is much less fatiguing to listen to. This is most noticeable higher ranges as there is much less sibilance in tracks prone to it. I am able to play tracks 5 to 10 dB louder if I want, not that I do, without any sense of irritation. At first I thought there was a loss of detail but that is not the case. In fact, there is a little bit more detail. The sound is just smoother and more musical. The soundstage is a bit more defined and has more height. The sound has less of that digital harshness and more of the smoothness I associate with unconverted analog sources.

 

Based on my testing, I attribute the smoothness to the signal entering the DAC getting cleaner power and signals. When I decided to listen to my system without the Lush USB cable, I went all the way. I put the "Straight Wire" USB cable back in, I pulled the Teddy Pardo LPS, and plugged the audio system power strip straight into the wall instead of the Topaz isolation transformer. Wow, the system sure sounded different. It wasn't bad. It just wasn't near what I had before. At that point I tried putting the Teddy Pardo back in. Then I took that out and put the Lush cable in. Then I took that back out and put the Topaz back in. Of those three by themselves, the Topaz made the biggest improvement in sound. In fact, both the Lush cable and the Teddy Pardo made comparatively small improvements without the Topaz in place. With the Topaz in place, both the Lush cable and the Teddy Pardo made much more significant improvements to the sound. It's hard to say, but I would say that the Lush cable and the Teddy Pardo power supply equally improved the sound. The Lush cable seemed to have the most impact with both the Topaz and the Teddy Pardo in place.

 

So what did I find out? I found out that music sounds better with the Lush USB cable in place. The Lush USB cable does something to reduce the workload of the USB PHY in my Yggdrasil with Gen 5 USB. I also found out that the Topaz isolation transformer is critical to getting the best sound quality out of my system. I found that a quality LPS in place of an SMPS helps sound quality a lot too.

 

Finally, I found out that how the system works together is the most important factor in getting the best sound quality.

 

What size Topaz isotrans are you using, what is plugged into it and does it make any mechanical noise?

TIA

[Speed Racer]

16 minutes ago, Doak said:

 

What size Topaz isotrans are you using, what is plugged into it and does it make any mechanical noise?

TIA

 

I am using a 2.5kVa .0005pF Topaz unit wired for balanced power. It is silent and runs cools. Before I rewired it for balanced power, it hummed audibly and ran hot. Not too loud and not too hot. But much different.

[fas42]

1 hour ago, Speed Racer said:

...

 

So what did I find out? I found out that music sounds better with the Lush USB cable in place. The Lush USB cable does something to reduce the workload of the USB PHY in my Yggdrasil with Gen 5 USB. I also found out that the Topaz isolation transformer is critical to getting the best sound quality out of my system. I found that a quality LPS in place of an SMPS helps sound quality a lot too.

 

Finally, I found out that how the system works together is the most important factor in getting the best sound quality.

 

This is a very good account of the process of "debugging" a system - the components are able to do the job quite nicely, but a lack of 'ruggedness' of the overall is holding the potential back; actively recognising what's happening and doing something about it is the smartest way to make fast gains to getting better sound.

 

Sibilance and "digital harshness" are giveaways - they mean that the system playback is contributing audible anomalies, which can be eliminated if the right measures are taken.

[Doak]

8 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

I am using a 2.5kVa .0005pF Topaz unit wired for balanced power. It is silent and runs cools. Before I rewired it for balanced power, it hummed audibly and ran hot. Not too loud and not too hot. But much different.

Thanks.

Is it powering the entire audio system, or possibly only front end components?

Also, any pointers to info on how to convert to balanced?

[Speed Racer]

6 minutes ago, Doak said:

Thanks.

Is it powering the entire audio system, or possibly only front end components?

Also, any pointers to info on how to convert to balanced?

 

The Topaz powers everything from the ultraRendu (via the Teddy Pardo LPS) to the amps. That includes DAC, preamp, headphone amp, and power amp.

 

I have posted somewhere here how to wire the Topaz for balanced power. I could dig it up again if you get to that point.

[Speed Racer]

I just picked up a PS Audio DirectStream DAC (I will get it on Thursday) with Ethernet Bridge II card installed. It is going to be interesting to test that DAC using the Ethernet Bridge II and the ultraRendu with the Lush USB cable. I also can't wait to see what I think of it compared to my Yggdrasil!

[OldBigEars]

On 10/2/2017 at 5:58 PM, pkane2001 said:

 

Since I've not seen any answers, let me try:

 

I would love to see any measurements that demonstrate that your cable is having a measurable effect. First, on the USB signal, and then on the output of any reasonable quality DAC. Your choice of DAC, your choice of measurements. Compared to, say, a $5 quality USB cable. THD, jitter, FR, IMD, ...?

 

I assume that you have some idea as to how your cable works, we really don't. That knowledge should help you to pick the most appropriate measurements to demonstrate the difference.

 

Why in god's name should I know or care how my cable works?  I listen to music and can hear if it sounds good.  I have no intention of measuring noises or electrical signals to amuse myself.  That's a different hobby.  You've got the wrong website, old chap.

[asdf1000]

16 minutes ago, OldBigEars said:

 

Why in god's name should I know or care how my cable works?  I listen to music and can hear if it sounds good.  I have no intention of measuring noises or electrical signals to amuse myself.  That's a different hobby.  You've got the wrong website, old chap.

 

It's always interesting to read people demanding measurements with the digital side of things.

 

This is from one of the best DAC designers, the late great Charlie Hansen:

 

"nothing will be visible on the analog waveform of an oscilloscope between the just about any DAC at any price, including the $5 ones built in to your laptop. A full suite of tests as done by Stereophile with $50,000 worth of test equipment will show some minor differences, but your ears are a far better tool. Trying to use measurements to test audio equipment is about as smart as using measurements to test wines or food. Good luck with that. A mouse's brain literally has more computing power than every single computer ever made tied together. Nature is far, FARsmarter than people. Sorry to disappoint you there."

 

He was probably more qualified than the rest of us here, combined.

 

 

 

 

[OldBigEars]

6 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

It's always interesting to read people demanding measurements with the digital side of things.

 

This is from one of the best DAC designers, the late great Charlie Hansen:

 

"nothing will be visible on the analog waveform of an oscilloscope between the just about any DAC at any price, including the $5 ones built in to your laptop. A full suite of tests as done by Stereophile with $50,000 worth of test equipment will show some minor differences, but your ears are a far better tool. Trying to use measurements to test audio equipment is about as smart as using measurements to test wines or food. Good luck with that. A mouse's brain literally has more computing power than every single computer ever made tied together. Nature is far, FARsmarter than people. Sorry to disappoint you there."

 

He was probably more qualified than the rest of us here, combined.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.  Enough of this 'measure it' nonsense.  EE's can do that kind of thing, if they choose to spend their time doing so.  The rest of us use our ears.

[pkane2001]

7 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

Why in god's name should I know or care how my cable works?  I listen to music and can hear if it sounds good.  I have no intention of measuring noises or electrical signals to amuse myself.  

 

As you can clearly see in my post, I said that "I would love to see any measurements that demonstrate that...". Note the emphasis on "I", not "you". What's more, the post was not addressed to you, so why would you respond as if it was?

 

I use my old big brain sometimes to think about what should go where in my system, and how to best improve it, and I do this long before I engage my old big ears. That's my process, yours could be different. Entirely your business. 

 

Quote

That's a different hobby.  You've got the wrong website, old chap.

Are you perhaps related to GUTB? He also tries to define 'audiophile' in a way that excludes many others. A very unfriendly thing to do, if you ask me. I've considered myself as an audiophile for well over 30 years, sorry if I don't fit your definition of the word.

 

 

[OldBigEars]

9 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

As you can clearly see in my post, I said that "I would love to see any measurements that demonstrate that...". Note the emphasis on "I", not "you". What's more, the post was not addressed to you, so why would you respond as if it was?

 

I use my old big brain sometimes to think about what should go where in my system, and how to best improve it, and I do this long before I engage my old big ears. That's my process, yours could be different. Entirely your business. 

 

Are you perhaps related to GUTB? He also tries to define 'audiophile' in a way that excludes many others. A very unfriendly thing to do, if you ask me. I've considered myself as an audiophile for well over 30 years, sorry if I don't fit your definition of the word.

 

 

 

No connection to GUTB.  Just a bit tired of engineers banging on about measurements.   You do what you like with your old big brain, and time, and enjoy yourself however you choose.