MQA is Vaporware

[christopher3393]

That's really a lovely train of thought. Haven't gotten into Nietzche, but perhaps I should.

 

Bona ventura!

 

The Nietzsche Channel: Beyond Good and Evil. Preface.

[Booster MPS]

Why can't we have nice things? This is why.

 

Thanks to everybody that ran off Michael Lavorgna. Nice work there. Sorry for this off topic comment but I just had to voice my displeasure. Some of you guys just need to learn how to let some things go and not try to win every internet discussion. This adds nothing to our collective understanding or to the hobby. Certainly not to those who love music.

[Vincent1234]

Why can't we have nice things? This is why.

 

Thanks to everybody that ran off Michael Lavorgna. Nice work there. Sorry for this off topic comment but I just had to voice my displeasure. Some of you guys just need to learn how to let some things go and not try to win every internet discussion. This adds nothing to our collective understanding or to the hobby. Certainly not to those who love music.

Thank you. Couldn't agree more.

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[realhifi]

Why can't we have nice things? This is why.

 

Thanks to everybody that ran off Michael Lavorgna. Nice work there. Sorry for this off topic comment but I just had to voice my displeasure. Some of you guys just need to learn how to let some things go and not try to win every internet discussion. This adds nothing to our collective understanding or to the hobby. Certainly not to those who love music.

 

Amen to that.

[Vincent1234]

I'd imagine you've read about the DEG CES presentation on hi-res. While HDtracks did not speak at this press event, there was a slide from them with this quote:

 

"HDtracks is excited about the opportunity to bring studio quality music, along with exciting new features, to a whole new group of serious music fans and streaming enthusiasts."

 

Those last two words are interesting.

 

Interesting indeed. It does fit this time and age that our kids are apparently less interested in 'owning things', which includes music files. Streaming is a way to listen to music without 'owning' any of it. The word is that most of our kids will also not own a car anymore. They don't want to own a car; the only thing they need is 'transportation'. There are many other ways to fulfill that need.

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[plissken]

If you've read my reviews, you would know that I spent more than a month doing comparisons.

 

Why?

 

Good question!

 

Because short-term listening results have no bearing on long term listening results.

Because it takes real time to get beyond initial impressions Because taking real time and 'living' with things allows you to reduce the impact of 'the new' [

 

 

You shouldn't run with the assumption that I couldn't black box all of this and leave it in your listening environment for a few months.

 

Why would 'Easily Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent' not survive quicker A/B testing? What is your definition of 'Clearly Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent'?

 

 

 

Doesn't have the knowledge to make the claims you are making

Has called me a "coward" and a "hack"

 

Anyone that starts ban hammering the likes of Archimago, John Sully when they are making very valid points because is challenges your understanding of how this actually operates. That's the provenance of cowardice.

 

Anyone that says they can listen to 3-4 different Ethernet cables and establish, for their hearing as baseline, 'Easily Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent' differences. Add to that, and I quote you directly:

 

 

 

"I've spent a few months with these cables, and I swapped them in and out any number of times. With quick A/B swapping, which I admit to finding one of the most annoying ways one can listen since you're no longer listening to the music!, I was still able to perceive a clear difference but longer listening allowed me to more fully appreciate the greater clarity and relative ease the Vodka and Diamond cables impart.

Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-vodka-ethernet-cable-and-diamond-ethernet-cable#x6OaqqygJBU0YzMx.99"

 

and

 

Again, these changes are not subtle or slight. AudioQuest Vodka Ethernet Cable and Diamond Ethernet Cable | AudioStream

So, since your little "test" is based on a faulty assumption and will not produce a valid result, I'd only be taking part in it to humor you.

 

My test is based on your own words for pete's sake.

 

Your backtracking, your circular logic, your complete lack of understanding of buffered, multiple-copy stacks, non-realtime systems, your descriptions of depth of field, audio blossoms, (even though data arrives in spurts and plays out of buffer 100% of the time) even in the face of you having been an I.T. person make you a hack.

 

 

why in the world would I do that?

 

Its called exposed.

[bobbmd]

CONFUSED:'out there' ask the cigarette smoking man- watch episode 1 season 3

[plissken]

You'll be in good company .. more than a few industry folk have either left CA or post infrequently. It's unfortunate.

 

Ya, all the people howling at the moon drove JRiver off the site.

[Vincent1234]

You shouldn't run with the assumption that I couldn't black box all of this and leave it in your listening environment for a few months.

 

Why would 'Easily Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent' not survive quicker A/B testing? What is your definition of 'Clearly Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent'?

 

 

 

 

Anyone that starts ban hammering the likes of Archimago, John Sully when they are making very valid points because is challenges your understanding of how this actually operates. That's the provenance of cowardice.

 

Anyone that says they can listen to 3-4 different Ethernet cables and establish, for their hearing as baseline, 'Easily Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent' differences. Add to that, and I quote you directly:

 

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

My test is based on your own words for pete's sake.

 

Your backtracking, your circular logic, your complete lack of understanding of buffered, multiple-copy stacks, non-realtime systems, your descriptions of depth of field, audio blossoms, (even though data arrives in spurts and plays out of buffer 100% of the time) even in the face of you having been an I.T. person make you a hack.

 

 

 

 

Its called exposed.

And there we go again..

 

My God, don't you ever grow extremely tired of yourself..? Don't even your friends grow tired of you? I know I do.

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Vincent1234]

Ya, all the people howling at the moon drove JRiver off the site.

Don't forget to take your lithium

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Vincent1234]

You shouldn't run with the assumption that I couldn't black box all of this and leave it in your listening environment for a few months.

 

Why would 'Easily Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent' not survive quicker A/B testing? What is your definition of 'Clearly Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent'?

 

 

 

 

Anyone that starts ban hammering the likes of Archimago, John Sully when they are making very valid points because is challenges your understanding of how this actually operates. That's the provenance of cowardice.

 

Anyone that says they can listen to 3-4 different Ethernet cables and establish, for their hearing as baseline, 'Easily Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent' differences. Add to that, and I quote you directly:

 

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

My test is based on your own words for pete's sake.

 

Your backtracking, your circular logic, your complete lack of understanding of buffered, multiple-copy stacks, non-realtime systems, your descriptions of depth of field, audio blossoms, (even though data arrives in spurts and plays out of buffer 100% of the time) even in the face of you having been an I.T. person make you a hack.

 

 

 

 

Its called exposed.

Request nr. 7. [emoji1]

Anyone...?

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Jud]

Ya, all the people howling at the moon drove JRiver off the site.

 

That's true. There are self-appointed experts on both "sides" of most of these long term issues who are quite wrong, but never stop commenting (often raising their pet topics in unrelated threads) long enough to sit back, read, and learn something from people who may actually know more, or even if not "more," something other than we know already. That's the biggest reason I'm here, and I've been paid back a hundred-fold.

 

Please (and this is for everyone) - don't make that harder.

 

I spoke with Chris C. a while ago and told him what I'd love to see on the site is experts in various audio fields sharing their knowledge. But even while suggesting this, I said that I wrestled with whether to allow comments and questions. Those could certainly help expand the value of experts' posts by making them more relevant to individual circumstances. But I wasn't certain we could be trusted not to turn into a howling, argumentative rabble. I was sad to have that thought, but I had it. Hope I was wrong.

[Samuel T Cogley]

Don't forget to take your lithium

 

I've always been aware of a herd mentality in many quarters of audiophilia, and sycophancy dressed as "enjoy the music" is on full display here.

 

Look, I readily and wholeheartedly admit that I contributed greatly to the pollution of this thread and I humbly apologize. Mr. Audiostream clearly feels defending his "reputation" justifies asymmetric responses and I realized (admittedly much, much too late) that he was only here to protect said "reputation" and will answer valid technical queries with only sarcasm and ad homenim.

 

You're not helping by appointing yourself some kind of surrogate for Mr. Audiostream. He's a big boy, I'm sure he'll confirm this.

 

Based on your apparent affluence, I predict that you have a high enough level of intelligence to understand that the $2k that was offered would be consumed by round trip airfare to Europe. You're being childish to keep harping on it.

 

I ask @plissken to stop engaging Mr. Audiostream as it's accomplishing nothing more than driving people away and giving the ones staying the opportunity to further voice their displeasure with the continued thread pollution, causing even more thread pollution.

 

As I said, I know how very dirty my hands are in all this. But, I hope at least some will believe me when I say I've learned something in the last 72 hours and my forum demeanor will certainly change as a result. I can't give an ironclad guarantee that relapses won't occur. :-)

[mav52]

All I know this back and forth between between CA members and ML wasn't good for CA as a whole. From being a place to learn and grow the hobby it was pretty darn embarrassing to say the least. It went to far and Chris should have moved in and stopped the madness. I sure hope people from now on look at the big picture, its not about one or two people and their opinions its about the hobby as a whole, you can help it succeed or you can kill it with the remarks people make and those remarks reflect the culture of this site. From what I have read today, some acknowledge maybe they went to far, and for me that's a start in civility.

[Vincent1234]

Look, I readily and wholeheartedly admit that I contributed greatly to the pollution of this thread and I humbly apologize. Mr. Audiostream clearly feels defending his "reputation" justifies asymmetric responses and I realized (admittedly much, much too late) that he was only here to protect said "reputation" and will answer valid technical queries with only sarcasm and ad homenim.

 

You're not helping by appointing yourself some kind of surrogate for Mr. Audiostream. He's a big boy, I'm sure he'll confirm this.

 

Based on your apparent affluence, I predict that you have a high enough level of intelligence to understand that the $2k that was offered would be consumed by round trip airfare to Europe. You're being childish to keep harping on it.

 

Thank you for your honest response. I do mean that.

 

Let me make very clear again that I'm NOT some kind of surrogate for Michael at all. I only liked many of his comments (not all) because I sincerely did like 'em for their content and/or irony, no matter if you did or not. And yes, I certainly do think some counterweight was in order during the heavier storms of personal attacks occurring here. That doesn't mean I think he can't do his own defence. He's a big boy indeed and I'm sure he doesn't need me. I hope my girlfriend does, but that's a different story altogether. [emoji6]

 

The 2k offer was and is frankly simply ridiculous. By the way: I only referred to it twice here and I will leave it at that. Unfortunately I cannot say the same of Mr. plissken. I'm not affluent by the way; I built my current system in the course of about 40 years. 2k Is a serious amount of money also to me. But... I really don't care about his offer and I also don't need it, especially not from someone who keeps on pushing his own 'truth' down the throats of his 'non-believers'.

 

Having said that, I really do appreciate your apologies and personal insight on the last 72 hours. I will try to be as transparent as possible going forward. Just let me know when I'm out of line. I'm a big boy too. [emoji4]

 

 

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Mercman]

You shouldn't run with the assumption that I couldn't black box all of this and leave it in your listening environment for a few months.

 

Why would 'Easily Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent' not survive quicker A/B testing? What is your definition of 'Clearly Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent'?

 

 

 

 

Anyone that starts ban hammering the likes of Archimago, John Sully when they are making very valid points because is challenges your understanding of how this actually operates. That's the provenance of cowardice.

 

Anyone that says they can listen to 3-4 different Ethernet cables and establish, for their hearing as baseline, 'Easily Discernible' and 'Readily Apparent' differences. Add to that, and I quote you directly:

 

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

My test is based on your own words for pete's sake.

 

Your backtracking, your circular logic, your complete lack of understanding of buffered, multiple-copy stacks, non-realtime systems, your descriptions of depth of field, audio blossoms, (even though data arrives in spurts and plays out of buffer 100% of the time) even in the face of you having been an I.T. person make you a hack.

 

 

 

 

Its called exposed.

 

Without wishing to create additional turmoil, I do have one question for plissken:

 

Do you have any personal experience with Ethernet cables like the ones manufactured by AudioQuest or Wireworld?

[crenca]

All I know this back and forth between between CA members and ML wasn't good for CA as a whole. From being a place to learn and grow the hobby it was pretty darn embarrassing to say the least. It went to far and Chris should have moved in and stopped the madness. I sure hope people from now on look at the big picture, its not about one or two people and their opinions its about the hobby as a whole, you can help it succeed or you can kill it with the remarks people make and those remarks reflect the culture of this site. From what I have read today, some acknowledge maybe they went to far, and for me that's a start in civility.

{just using your post here to riff off of - it is expressing what others have said in different ways as well}

 

I have to respectfully disagree. The problem is not dialogue per se, the problem is real disagreement. Now, we could have a kind of politically correct culture, where certain things are not discussed and where certain people are more equal than others (say, ML because of his long experience, industry status, etc.) and where we "ask questions", just not the hard ones and thus we really only "learn" what the sages tell us is so (rather it is true or not), OR we can have a slightly uncomfortable and a bit "confrontational" culture where real disagreement happens and sacred cows are actually questioned, shot, and eaten. Now, I agree this can be done in a more "civil" manner, but honestly give me real and messy conflict over a safe and false "civility" any day. ML promotes a kind of "civility" on his site - it is a smothering and tyrannical "civility" that only leads to one place - whatever he thinks is right and true...

[Vincent1234]

Without wishing to create additional turmoil, I do have one question for plissken:

 

Do you have any personal experience with Ethernet cables like the ones manufactured by AudioQuest or Wireworld?

Please guys, don't give him more airplay.. This is way off-topic..

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[plissken]

Without wishing to create additional turmoil, I do have one question for plissken:

 

Do you have any personal experience with Ethernet cables like the ones manufactured by AudioQuest or Wireworld?

 

Please guys, don't give him more airplay.. This is way off-topic..

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

He's been quoted and replied to in the 'Audiophile Ethernet Cables'

[Booster MPS]

{just using your post here to riff off of - it is expressing what others have said in different ways as well}

 

I have to respectfully disagree. The problem is not dialogue per se, the problem is real disagreement. Now, we could have a kind of politically correct culture, where certain things are not discussed and where certain people are more equal than others (say, ML because of his long experience, industry status, etc.) and where we "ask questions", just not the hard ones and thus we really only "learn" what the sages tell us is so (rather it is true or not), OR we can have a slightly uncomfortable and a bit "confrontational" culture where real disagreement happens and sacred cows are actually questioned, shot, and eaten. Now, I agree this can be done in a more "civil" manner, but honestly give me real and messy conflict over a safe and false "civility" any day. ML promotes a kind of "civility" on his site - it is a smothering and tyrannical "civility" that only leads to one place - whatever he thinks is right and true...

 

I completely disagree.

 

Those that abhor political correctness and use that term might as well state, "I give up, I am tired of trying." Sure you are right, you don't want to be civil and I completely understand the level of honesty that you are trying to promote. What is lost by those rejecting civility and political correctness is that that the type of discourse that you want, while indeed valid, does not allow for listening and critical consideration of the opinions and facts presented by others. You just want to yell. You just want to set it on fire. You just want to see it burn down in hopes that truth will be left in the ashes.

 

Yes. You can be confrontational, civil, AND listen all at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive. The most important of these three is listening and attempting to learn BEFORE banging on the keyboard to get your point across.

 

Anybody heard any good tunes on MQA? You know, music. That's why we are here, right?

[crenca]

I completely disagree.

 

Those that abhor political correctness and use that term might as well state, "I give up, I am tired of trying." Sure you are right, you don't want to be civil and I completely understand the level of honesty that you are trying to promote. What is lost by those rejecting civility and political correctness is that that the type of discourse that you want, while indeed valid, does not allow for listening and critical consideration of the opinions and facts presented by others. You just want to yell. You just want to set it on fire. You just want to see it burn down in hopes that truth will be left in the ashes.

 

Yes. You can be confrontational, civil, AND listen all at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive. The most important of these three is listening and attempting to learn BEFORE banging on the keyboard to get your point across.

 

Anybody heard any good tunes on MQA? You know, music. That's why we are here, right?

 

I think we are closer than you think. No, "yelling" in an emotive way to try to "win" is not what I am promoting. However, too often "civility" is just a euphemism for the suppression of disagreement and honest inquiry/analysis.

 

I would put the allegation that those who disagree with this or that (say the "sound" of data cables, MQA as a whole, etc.) are not really interested in music in this abuse of "civility" (if that is what you think it is).

 

No, I am not here to ONLY discuss "good tunes" encoded by MQA or anything else - I am here to discuss and try to understand ALL aspects of MQA...

[realhifi]

 

I spoke with Chris C. a while ago and told him what I'd love to see on the site is experts in various audio fields sharing their knowledge. But even while suggesting this, I said that I wrestled with whether to allow comments and questions. Those could certainly help expand the value of experts' posts by making them more relevant to individual circumstances. But I wasn't certain we could be trusted not to turn into a howling, argumentative rabble. I was sad to have that thought, but I had it. Hope I was wrong.

 

Never work. There will always be someone that thinks they know better than the industry experts even if they quite frankly know very little. One look at political discourse in the internet age and it's easy to see that strong views and certain personalities seem to combine to make relaxed and observations and discussion difficult. I know if I was one of our industry stalwarts that had knowledge, seasoned views about technologies and techniques and was asked to share them and open themselves up to Q&A on thus site I would decline immediately. There is an element that is far too volatile, too self important along with an embarrassing lack of self restraint shown on this site to want to engage.

[Vincent1234]

I completely disagree.

 

Those that abhor political correctness and use that term might as well state, "I give up, I am tired of trying." Sure you are right, you don't want to be civil and I completely understand the level of honesty that you are trying to promote. What is lost by those rejecting civility and political correctness is that that the type of discourse that you want, while indeed valid, does not allow for listening and critical consideration of the opinions and facts presented by others. You just want to yell. You just want to set it on fire. You just want to see it burn down in hopes that truth will be left in the ashes.

 

Yes. You can be confrontational, civil, AND listen all at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive. The most important of these three is listening and attempting to learn BEFORE banging on the keyboard to get your point across.

 

Anybody heard any good tunes on MQA? You know, music. That's why we are here, right?

 

Music...?! I must have been on the wrong forum then.. Sorry, my mistake! [emoji1]

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[realhifi]

.

Anybody heard any good tunes on MQA? You know, music. That's why we are here, right?

 

Remember America's "Homecoming" album? Great hearing it again. I'm sure I've got the record buried somewhere but being reminded of it by Tidal in the new "Masters" section is just a treat. It sounds terrific too.

[kumakuma]

Never work. There will always be someone that thinks they know better than the industry experts even if they quite frankly know very little. One look at political discourse in the internet age and it's easy to see that strong views and certain personalities seem to combine to make relaxed and observations and discussion difficult. I know if I was one of our industry stalwarts that had knowledge, seasoned views about technologies and techniques and was asked to share them and open themselves up to Q&A on thus site I would decline immediately. There is an element that is far too volatile, too self important along with an embarrassing lack of self restraint shown on this site to want to engage.

 

Many of the people who post regularly on this forum know more about computer audio that your "industry experts". A good example is the embarrassing series of articles that TAS has published coauthored by an "industry expert" who calls himself The HiFi Doctor. (He has a PhD in Physiology and Molecular Oncology.)