Jump to content
IGNORED

MQA is Vaporware


Recommended Posts

Which had better video quality - Beta or VHS? :)

 

So that would be the problem, if MQA experiences sufficient success to drive others out of the market. On that score, I would be less concerned about Tidal out-competing rivals than about the labels deciding to throw their support (in the form of contracts with streaming companies) behind the format they believe allows them to control access to the best quality version.

 

It's very early days, and none of this is close to happening, but that I suppose would be the "doomsday scenario."

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

I think you are looking at this from an "audiophile" perspective (no offense meant). By that I mean there's no way that MQA will make inroads from 'the bottom up'. Tidal, which I love and would not want to live without, is a small player in the streaming market. Pandora and Rhapsody are big.

 

Since Pandora and Rhapsody are moving into hi-res streaming, I think we have to accept the fact that they have done their market research to a greater extent than anyone on any audio forum.

Link to comment
Streaming in hi-res non-proprietary formats is coming from Pandora, Rhapsody, Pono, and others.

 

My question is - what basis do people have in thinking that MQA will be the *only* hi-res format?

 

Because when someone from Warner talks about not giving away the "Crown Jewels," it implies that they view MQA files as something less than the best. By making only MQA files available for download, they are protecting their true master files. The music industry has never been concerned about sound quality, only revenue generation. One could imagine that they would view the proprietary nature of MQA as a means to control distribution.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

Main System: [Synology DS216, Rpi-4b LMS (pCP)], Holo Audio Red, Ayre QX-5 Twenty, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Ayre VX-5 Twenty, Revel Ultima Studio2, Iconoclast speaker cables & interconnects, RealTraps acoustic treatments

Living Room: Sonore ultraRendu, Ayre QB-9DSD, Simaudio MOON 340iX, B&W 802 Diamond

Link to comment
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that MQA wants to corner the market? If so, I would say that current events more than suggest this is not the case.

 

Another question - do you think MQA has more influence than Pandora and Rhapsody with the record labels?

 

What current events? I think they are just getting their foot in the door at this point, but why wouldn't they want to expand their marketshare?

 

Labels and codec providers are two different animals. The other streaming services may be willing to renegotiate their agreements with the content providers if they think that MQA would save them on bandwidth, or perhaps if the MQA brand would bring them more customers.

Link to comment
No, I was tell you my view changed. I never meant to imply that anyone else's views had changed. How to I know what other people think.

While I freely admit my behavior in this thread likely contributed to your purported opinion shift about this forum, you should also know that the average forum member holds ML in much, much higher regard than I do.

 

Please don't paint the whole forum with the broad brush that you might use on me. I'm undoubtedly much more suspicious of the motives of HiFi vendors (there are a few exceptions) and their surrogates than the typical person here.

 

I always value science over emotion, period. Dispassionate, neutral observations about the performance of HiFi gear are extremely rare in the trade press. In fact, they're almost nonexistent. It makes no logical sense to me that people would hold other people who unquestionably have conflicts of interests in any kind of regard. But I also reluctantly acknowledge that narcissism is becoming more and more tolerated and perhaps it's even moving in the direction of "fashionable" in recent times. In my experience, narcissists generally trust the word of other narcissists more than others (this is confirmed in some psychological studies). That, in a nutshell, is the issue IMHO.

 

Dissent really exists in audiophilia. It's almost always dismissed by the "believers" as anything from, "skeptics are envious peasants" to "some people just like to argue". There are countless others sayings in that vein and you can find them in any audio forum or blog. But all of them are said or written to marginalize or dismiss dissent as something that can be safely ignored. I am extremely grateful that Chris allows this dissent to be heard.

 

If you feel that airing that dissent has tainted the reputation of this forum, I apologize.

Link to comment
All of these services require content from Universal, Sony, and Warner.

 

Based on their track record to date, I have no problem at all seeing these record labels making MQA a requirement for access to their catalogs if they believe it to be the best way to protect their content.

 

Sure. But we *know* that this not *not the case*. I can imagine all kinds of things as well but I try to temper my imagination with reality.

Link to comment
I think you are looking at this from an "audiophile" perspective (no offense meant). By that I mean there's no way that MQA will make inroads from 'the bottom up'. Tidal, which I love and would not want to live without, is a small player in the streaming market. Pandora and Rhapsody are big.

 

Since Pandora and Rhapsody are moving into hi-res streaming, I think we have to accept the fact that they have done their market research to a greater extent than anyone on any audio forum.

 

Certainly hope you're right. :)

 

Edit: Of course Apple could change all this tomorrow. Let's hope those 24/96 iTunes masters are what they'll roll out if this happens.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
What current events? I think they are just getting their foot in the door at this point, but why wouldn't they want to expand their marketshare?

 

Labels and codec providers are two different animals. The other streaming services may be willing to renegotiate their agreements with the content providers if they think that MQA would save them on bandwidth, or perhaps if the MQA brand would bring them more customers.

The current events I was referring to, and I did not list them because I think repeating the same thing over and over can become annoying, is that Pandora and Rhapsody are launching non-MQA hi-res streaming and there are others in the works.

 

I am not saying that MQA is *done*, what I am saying is that there appears to be room for more than 1 hi-res solution based on actual events.

Link to comment
I agree with nearly all you are saying. Where I would take exception is whether you have any way of knowing whether it's a problem for you or not. I don't see how poorly communicating with others in society can ever be a good thing, even if it doesn't make you feel creepy.

 

Sorry, I forgot to quote. It looks like that makes it a pain for everyone else. Don't know how to fix that.

 

Well of course your right, there are real sociopaths and other serious disorders. However, look at what you did, you used the word "poorly". What I am saying is that in point of fact there is real, unavoidable conflict in almost all areas of life and human interrelation and that this in of itself is not indicative of something "bad" or "poor". On the contrary, it can be (and often is) a sign of healthy disagreement and wrangling to get at a truth, or open the past up, or some such thing. In other words, the idea that we should all just get along and "be nice", always rushing to agree, is unrealistic and not actually healthy. However, there types of people whose inner disposition leads them to tolerate this only so much.

 

Now, I won't disagree with you that on this particular thread things got personal in a silly way, but I would disagree with you that the goal and purpose of this thread (or all social media/communications) is to find common ground. Sometimes, the "common ground" is the realization that there is no common ground...

Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

Link to comment
Sure. But we *know* that this not *not the case*. I can imagine all kinds of things as well but I try to temper my imagination with reality.

 

Why do we *know* this to be *not the case*?

 

Macrovision, DVD and BluRay discs with both copy protection and region codes, copy protected CDs, FairPlay all indicate that the entertainment industry will do whatever it can to protect it's content.

 

The fact that many "industry experts" seem to be ignoring the trojan horse nature of this technology is disturbing to me.

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

Link to comment
Because when someone from Warner talks about not giving away the "Crown Jewels," it implies that they view MQA files as something less than the best. By making only MQA files available for download, they are protecting their true master files. The music industry has never been concerned about sound quality, only revenue generation. One could imagine that they would view the proprietary nature of MQA as a means to control distribution.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

Warner is on record saying they will continue to provide hi-res PCM downloads to HDtracks et al. And...there will be other non-MQA hi-res streaming services from Pandora, Rhapsody, and others.

 

Question - what time frame do you foresee MQA becoming the only source of hi-res?

Link to comment
Perhaps. I was involved in the very early days of the public internet. That whole "Al Gore invented the internet" business comes from Rush Limbaugh. It is a shibboleth of the right.

 

of course Gore did do more than any politician to establish the internet; he also had a slip of the tongue in an interview

 

I am curious what sort of real writing Mr. White does.

Link to comment
Why do we *know* this to be *not the case*?

 

Macrovision, DVD and BluRay discs with both copy protection and region codes, copy protected CDs, FairPlay all indicate that the entertainment industry will do whatever it can to protect it's content.

 

The fact that many "industry experts" seem to be ignoring the trojan horse nature of this technology is disturbing to me.

 

I sound like a broken record - Pandora and Rhapsody are launching hi-res streaming this year and they are not using MQA. There are others in the works.

 

Question - what basis do you have in believing MQA will become the only hi-res source and when do you think this will happen?

Link to comment
Why do we *know* this to be *not the case*?

 

Macrovision, DVD and BluRay discs with both copy protection and region codes, copy protected CDs, FairPlay all indicate that the entertainment industry will do whatever it can to protect it's content.

 

The fact that many "industry experts" seem to be ignoring the trojan horse nature of this technology is disturbing to me.

 

Does anyone remember the first Apex DVD player? The ability to disable Macrovision provided a substantial increase in picture quality. Consumers got a rare win. Would people video tape the output of those players? Maybe. I never heard about it. And of course, the "Home taping is killing music" campaign is considered a quaint joke these days.

Link to comment
While I freely admit my behavior in this thread likely contributed to your purported opinion shift about this forum, you should also know that the average forum member holds ML in much, much higher regard than I do.

 

Please don't paint the whole forum with the broad brush that you might use on me. I'm undoubtedly much more suspicious of the motives of HiFi vendors (there are a few exceptions) and their surrogates than the typical person here.

 

I always value science over emotion, period. Dispassionate, neutral observations about the performance of HiFi gear are extremely rare in the trade press. In fact, they're almost nonexistent. It makes no logical sense to me that people would hold other people who unquestionably have conflicts of interests in any kind of regard. But I also reluctantly acknowledge that narcissism is becoming more and more tolerated and perhaps it's even moving in the direction of "fashionable" in recent times. In my experience, narcissists generally trust the word of other narcissists more than others (this is confirmed in some psychological studies). That, in a nutshell, is the issue IMHO.

 

Dissent really exists in audiophilia. It's almost always dismissed by the "believers" as anything from, "skeptics are envious peasants" to "some people just like to argue". There are countless others sayings in that vein and you can find them in any audio forum or blog. But all of them are said or written to marginalize or dismiss dissent as something that can be safely ignored. I am extremely grateful that Chris allows this dissent to be heard.

 

If you feel that airing that dissent has tainted the reputation of this forum, I apologize.

Point well taken. I finally have some understanding of where you are coming from. My only comment is that you are not doing yourself any favors with the way you promote your cause. The way you deliver your opinions will not resonate with anyone who doesn't already agree with you.

Link to comment
I'm simply reporting.

 

I completely agree that this is the current situation, and regarding other streaming companies' market projections. Of course none of us knows the future with certainty. All we can do is work for the one we want.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
Warner is on record saying they will continue to provide hi-res PCM downloads to HDtracks et al. And...there will other non-MQA hi-res streaming services form Pandora, Rhapsody, and others.

 

Question - what time frame do you foresee MQA becoming the only source of hi-res?

 

What time frame? No clue. The content of your first paragraph doesn't guarantee anything, things could change. Time will tell.

Main System: [Synology DS216, Rpi-4b LMS (pCP)], Holo Audio Red, Ayre QX-5 Twenty, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Ayre VX-5 Twenty, Revel Ultima Studio2, Iconoclast speaker cables & interconnects, RealTraps acoustic treatments

Living Room: Sonore ultraRendu, Ayre QB-9DSD, Simaudio MOON 340iX, B&W 802 Diamond

Link to comment
Point well taken. I finally have some understanding of where you are coming from. My only comment is that you are not doing yourself any favors with the way you promote your cause. The way you deliver your opinions will not resonate with anyone who doesn't already agree with you.

What you're saying is totally fair. My only response is that narcissists almost always hate me. :-)

Link to comment
What time frame? No clue. The content of your first paragraph doesn't guarantee anything, things could change. Time will tell.

 

I think I understand my disconnect. The concern with MQA is the idea that they may become the de-facto standard for hi-res some day because the big three record labels may eventually realize that MQA offers them more control of downloads.

 

And, if we recognize this eventuality, we can do something about it today.

 

Is this correct? If so, what can *we* do to make sure this will not happen?

Link to comment

That is basically my concern: taking away our options. What can we do about it? Probably nothing. Maybe MQA will prove to be a huge benefit but it would be nice if we could decide for ourselves whether or not we wanted it. For streaming, I have no issues whatsoever.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

Main System: [Synology DS216, Rpi-4b LMS (pCP)], Holo Audio Red, Ayre QX-5 Twenty, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Ayre VX-5 Twenty, Revel Ultima Studio2, Iconoclast speaker cables & interconnects, RealTraps acoustic treatments

Living Room: Sonore ultraRendu, Ayre QB-9DSD, Simaudio MOON 340iX, B&W 802 Diamond

Link to comment
I sound like a broken record - Pandora and Rhapsody are launching hi-res streaming this year and they are not using MQA. There are others in the works.

 

Question - what basis do you have in believing MQA will become the only hi-res source and when do you think this will happen?

 

Any hi-res streaming service is going to need content from The Big 3 to get any kind of traction and they could easily be forced to use MQA if these three labels decide that's the best way to project hi-res content.

 

Hopefully, it won't come to that but I'm keeping my rose colored glasses in my pocket when it comes to this proprietary solution.

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

Link to comment

I generally think that is a good thing...eggs all in one basket etc...

 

I have been pretty vocal on several sites about my hesitancy with Tidal MQA, but I have to say that despite my aversion (lossy, proprietary manipulation of data etc...) to MQA and some hit or misses sonically, my recent experience suggests that Tidal software decoded MQA with a non-MQA DAC is overall a good sounding thing. Listening to Steely Dan's "Two Against Nature" (not music I really like) at least convinced me that Tidal MQA can sound REALLY good.

 

The current events I was referring to, and I did not list them because I think repeating the same thing over and over can become annoying, is that Pandora and Rhapsody are launching non-MQA hi-res streaming and there are others in the works.

 

I am not saying that MQA is *done*, what I am saying is that there appears to be room for more than 1 hi-res solution based on actual events.

Link to comment
That is basically my concern: taking away our options. What can we do about it? Probably nothing. Maybe MQA will prove to be a huge benefit but it would be nice if we could decide for ourselves whether or not we wanted it. For streaming, I have no issues whatsoever.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

I take the news that there are non-MQA hi-res streaming services coming from major players as good news and this good news adresses your concerns for the foreseeable future.

 

I say this because I do not think that Pandora and Rhapsody would be going into this blind (and without the guarantee of hi-res content) and I beleive that their business plan is forecast in years.

Link to comment
Does anyone remember the first Apex DVD player? The ability to disable Macrovision provided a substantial increase in picture quality. Consumers got a rare win. Would people video tape the output of those players? Maybe. I never heard about it. And of course, the "Home taping is killing music" campaign is considered a quaint joke these days.

 

I used to own either that model or a later one. We used it to watch DVDs from Japan that wouldn't play on our North American DVD player due to differing region codes.

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...