Jump to content
IGNORED

MQA is Vaporware


Recommended Posts

Richard, thank your for posting this because it illustrates a crucial and often misunderstood aspect of DRM - that it is not any technical aspect of it that is decisive, but rather the legal aspect that is important. Let us take the point further. for example, since a record player can not play a DSD file, then it must be because DRM. Or because a player piano can not play a wax disk, it must be because of DRM. Or because my car won't move with square wheels, then it must because DRM. Clearly, by focusing on the technical aspect we very quickly are led into obvious absurdities.

 

Of course, certain technical things only work with devices that were designed for them. However, there would be nothing legally to stop you from modifying a certain device to play a certain software file. For example, you could modify (perhaps through a firmware update) your player to play ALAC, and there would be no licensing restrictions for doing so (putting aside Apple/Alac rights for argument sake), or you could modify a PCM DAC to accept DSD and the original manufacturer has no legal rights or hold on you, and neither the PCM or DSD format will restrict you either.

 

However, try modifying your "legacy" DAC (through reverse engineering the proprietary MQA algorithm) so that you can hear MQA in all its native glory and you are in a world of DRM, IP/software patent violations, etc. The design of MQA takes this into account from the beginning - it is designed to deliver one thing to a certain kind of licensed user and another to another kind of licensed user, and to provide legal recourse to the licensee. This is what makes MQA DRM, all day everyday. The reduction of DRM to mere technical limitation of copy protection reduces DRM to absurdity pretty quickly as you illustrate...

 

Unfortunately, your own example falls directly into the obvious absurdies example it gives. If you were to modify that old player to play any format (whether ALAC, DSD or MQA) that is protected by patent, then you would be violating that patent, whether or not it was ever intended for DRM purposes or not. So either every proprietary format is by definition "DRM" (which would include Jussi's filters in HQPlayer) or you need a more specific definition of DRM.

Synology NAS>i7-6700/32GB/NVIDIA QUADRO P4000 Win10>Qobuz+Tidal>Roon>HQPlayer>DSD512> Fiber Switch>Ultrarendu (NAA)>Holo Audio May KTE DAC> Bryston SP3 pre>Levinson No. 432 amps>Magnepan (MG20.1x2, CCR and MMC2x6)

Link to comment
HEY Ralf11- isn't that a restaurant in syracuse's armory square? all home made pasta

 

I think it's a great idea to talk about pasta - just as relevant and a heck of a lot more pleasant than the past couple of pages.

 

You like the thin or thick spaghetti noodles?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment

Here's a summary.

 

I fart in your general direction. Now go away, before I taunt you a second time!

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

Link to comment
I see. It tends to be kind of interesting though. ;) Anyway, Tidal's new MQA content appears to have triggered these fresh discussions about MQA. I think it's relevant to evaluate the actual quality of said content..

 

I couldn't agree more about the value in discussing the actual quality of MQA content. But it seems like you and the person you replied to are the only posts of that nature. The rest of it I find tedious, boring and worthless.

Link to comment

Jud- very thin like angel hair-ever been to syracuse? another great restaurant is the DINOSAUR bbq-branches in rochester ny newark nj brooklyn and harlem always shown during su basketball games.

are you in bethlehem pa? my son and his st lawrence buds play golf at the old bethlehem steel golf club i guess it's only a short drive for them from nyc

aren't you getting a little exhausted from all this MQA banter? I really like it tho and have made a playlist of all the DEAD albums now available plus the tribute to Jerry sounds really good without a MQA DAC just from the TIDAL desktop

Link to comment

My limited experience with "fully decoded" MQA is with a Meridian Explorer 2. While I will concede that the sound quality of $200 DACs continues to improve, the general coloration of the DAC will undoubtedly color the MQA decoding.

 

After listening for several days to nothing but that E2 (MQA and not), I will say that I much prefer the overall sound of iDSD Micro/HQPlayer (Redbook and up) to the sound of the E2 (with upsampled PCM).

 

MQA? I can't find an equivalent non-MQA-ed file to A/B. The MQA-ed file always sounds "remastered", even compared to a 192kHz file.

Link to comment
Jud- very thin like angel hair-ever been to syracuse? another great restaurant is the DINOSAUR bbq-branches in rochester ny newark nj brooklyn and harlem always shown during su basketball games.

are you in bethlehem pa? my son and his st lawrence buds play golf at the old bethlehem steel golf club i guess it's only a short drive for them from nyc

aren't you getting a little exhausted from all this MQA banter? I really like it tho and have made a playlist of all the DEAD albums now available plus the tribute to Jerry sounds really good without a MQA DAC just from the TIDAL desktop

 

No longer live in Bethlehem, but it's where I was born and grew up. Great town. Holds a huge music festival every summer. For more traditional stuff, the Bach Choir (America's oldest) at least used to give a week of concerts every year at Packer Chapel on the Lehigh campus, culminating with the B Minor Mass. In good weather the church doors were opened so people could gather on the lawns outside and listen for free. I don't know if this still goes on.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
Your tolerance for Mr. Lavorgna's behavior seems to be rather asymmetrical to your tolerance for mine. I'll pass, thanks.

That's rather childish IMO but it's fine. If you like throwing mud more than talking about MQA's SQ who am I to object? This thread is already polluted beyond recognition anyway. To each his own.

 

NOTE: Sam has changed the above comment after my response and has now shared his first impressions on MQA SQ.

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

Link to comment
No longer live in Bethlehem, but it's where I was born and grew up. Great town. Holds a huge music festival every summer. For more traditional stuff, the Bach Choir (America's oldest) at least used to give a week of concerts every year at Packer Chapel on the Lehigh campus, culminating with the B Minor Mass. In good weather the church doors were opened so people could gather on the lawns outside and listen for free. I don't know if this still goes on.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

So long as this thread is now including recommendations for Italian-American food in Syracuse, NY: If you want the real deal Syracuse Italian-American stuff, you should go to Angotti's https://www.facebook.com/linda.thorpestanger/posts/10208120828725697

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

Link to comment
That's rather childish IMO but it's fine. If you like throwing mud more than talking about MQA's SQ who am I to object? This thread is already polluted beyond recognition anyway. To each his own.

 

I changed my mind and posted some thoughts. You're not disputing a pro-Lavorgna bias though, right?

 

P.S.: Cleaning up that HTC ad every time I reply is tiresome.

Link to comment
It can hardly be overstated to those who want to focus on "proof" of what MQA and the industry is after - video is their template to the DRMing of our musical digital lives...

 

Let me help with a concrete example. I have an Amazon Prime subscription and access to Instant Video content, nice stuff actually. Problem is I can not stream Amazon content to any of my Chromecast devices. It is an obvious move of Amazon forcing me to spend money on Fire TV Stick. Oh, and by the way, try to search for Chromecast at Amazon, and see the actual result...

Link to comment
Let me help with a concrete example. I have an Amazon Prime subscription and access to Instant Video content, nice stuff actually. Problem is I can not stream Amazon content to any of my Chromecast devices. It is an obvious move of Amazon forcing me to spend money on Fire TV Stick. Oh, and by the way, try to search for Chromecast at Amazon, and see the actual result...

 

Fire Stick or Roku or iOS or ...

Link to comment
Bucatini is the king of the spaghetti-like noodles

 

I used to like lasagna too - not so much now

 

 

Big +1 for bucatini - something with substance.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
]

I do not place any value, whatsoever, on listening "tests" in audio for a number of reasons. I've gone into detail on AS but I will say that any "test" creates an artificial condition that does not exist otherwise. Perhaps more to the point, my belief is that this hobby is about the experience and enjoyment of listening to music.

 

And that is a cop out.

 

What was the 'natural' condition that allowed you to hear 'easy to discern' and 'readily apparent' differences?

 

You essentially compared cable A to cable B. You aren't being asked to do anything other than that. You don't need to know the cable in your system to evaluate it's characteristics.

 

Your claims are being tested.

 

How is it a 'natural' condition to go to a show and hear differences in Ethernet cabling?

Link to comment

I absolutely consider the restriction on MQA to be a form of DRM.

 

Any audio file that I am unable to convert to another format and play back at full resolution, I consider to have DRM.

 

It's fine for streaming but I wouldn't buy an album in MQA unless it was the only option, and that in and of itself would be a pretty strong deterrent.

 

I would definitely buy straight up redbook before I would buy MQA.

Link to comment
I absolutely consider the restriction on MQA to be a form of DRM.

 

Any audio file that I am unable to convert to another format and play back at full resolution, I consider to have DRM.

 

It's fine for streaming but I wouldn't buy an album in MQA unless it was the only option, and that in and of itself would be a pretty strong deterrent.

 

I would definitely buy straight up redbook before I would buy MQA.

 

So you consider *any* lossy format (e.g., MP3, AAC, WMA) or lossy transform (e.g., PCM <> DSD) to be a form of DRM? I think we're getting a bit hysterical about "DRM" :/

John Walker - IT Executive

Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth

Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system

Link to comment
So you consider *any* lossy format (e.g., MP3, AAC, WMA) or lossy transform (e.g., PCM <> DSD) to be a form of DRM? I think we're getting a bit hysterical about "DRM" :/

 

Nope, what I meant was the full resolution of the file I'm converting from. I could convert any of those lossy formats to FLAC or ALAC, and I wouldn't lose any resolution.

 

If I buy an album in MQA and then MQA DACs go off the market, I have no way of ever listening to those files at full resolution again.

 

DSD <> PCM is a flawed analogy. MQA is based on PCM, and could be converted to PCM without further loss were it not for their restrictions.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...