A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[MarkusBarkus]

 Buffalo Soldiers/Switch Heads:

Amazon notes five new Buffalo switches, FYI. I'm married to Ciscos, so go wild...

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XX4H997?ref=em_1p_1_ti&ref_=pe_3730140_517109190

[MarkusBarkus]

Any practical experience affixing heatsinks with heat conducting pastes?
 

I have a small aluminum heatsink from Parts-Express "resting" on the eRG, but I could use some goop to further improve the heat transfer. Non-permanent silicon paste.
 

It's sold as a kit, so it includes hardware to screw it down, but I hate to deface the sexy Uptone case with screw holes.

As is, it definitely pulls heat out, based on fin "touch analysis." Helpful to the device? Not sure, but I quite like the stegosaurus look. Old, but new...

[MarkusBarkus]

54 minutes ago, barrows said:

Just resting on there will make for good heat transfer, adding thermal paste will probably not help, unless;ess there is some pressure applied (clamping force) to press the sink to the eR's surface.  Thermal paste is designed to be used in an arrangement with clamping force, to insure the paste is just a very, very thin layer.  If you must keep the heatsink removable, perhaps a double sided thermal tape would be the best way to affix the heat sink, which would provide good thermal transfer, and still be removable.

Thanks Barrows! Howze my PS build going? I have to replace this Shanti. 😉

[MarkusBarkus]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

Just resting on there will make for good heat transfer, adding thermal paste will probably not help, unless;ess there is some pressure applied (clamping force) to press the sink to the eR's surface...

Semi-scientific-lay Test:

Temps (F): 

--On fins=110.3

--Remove sink = 111.5 @5" / ctr. top of  case.

--Wait 10mins = 113.3 @5" / ctr. top of  case.

--Play 10mins = 114.6 @5" / ctr. top of  case.

NB:
--Klein infrared thermometer is +/- 4 degrees F. 

--Ambient temp is 73 degrees.

--RH is 42%.

--Music for 10 min test is "The Drum Thunder Suite" - Art B & Jazz Ms.
--I think we're about 30' above sea level.

[MarkusBarkus]

18 hours ago, austinpop said:

Since every approach seems to have merits, it seems to me (OP) that for this thread, it would be particularly valuable to get listening reports from people who've done comparison between solutions. Comparisons with stock footers are still welcome, of course. 

Disclosure: I am not an engineer. I read broadly and deeply, and consider/digest the concepts I read. I experiment and build *a lot.* Always open to opposing views, and experiential data.

 

My take on vibration in audio is--there is vibration in audio! In the air, in the room structures and in the various components. I can't practically measure all of that, and in all the various permutations that actually exist between/among these elements. Maybe someone can measure all that, or a porpoise with a Phd in sound engineering.

 

So, I made the decision to accept the concept that everything is vibrating and everything is "communicating" and I want to try and control whatever seems a negative impact on the sound.

 

Based on my "research" which does not include marine mammals, but does sometimes include a couple of sharp-eared friends, you're either isolating things or coupling/draining them. I get what folks are saying in both camps, but I have isolated most of my pieces. When I have used spikes and cones, I have not loved the sound. Maybe confine this post to speakers for now.

 

Speakers: (Revel Studio2s).

Floor: Wide-plank, white oak engineered wood, felt/poly vapor and damping barrier, over concrete slab. Below grade.

 

--Placed flat on floor was OK, but it seemed the speakers had more to give. They just weren't lively/dynamic. Maybe bass was a little boomy (BTW-room is heavily managed with traps, quads, etc.). Just not lively.

--Factory spikes added a little more detail mid and high, but I heard no difference on low end.

--Factory spikes -and- Herbies Audio Lab (HAL) Little Puckies. I did not hear much difference...maybe a little tighter bass. Maybe. Surely easier to move things.

--Placed flat on Mapleshade plinths, with brass spiked footers to floor. This config was untenable as plinths were crowned (nightmare). I added HAL dBNeutralizer pieces between speaker base and maple plinths. Actually, this set-up sounded pretty good, perhaps emphasized midrange, but I did not prefer that speaker height. My ceiling height is low and this was just too high for my ears.

--IsoAcoustic Gaia2s. Bass is clearly more defined and not boomy at all, better integrated with subs (another story). Overall sound was balanced and detailed (did this a while ago). These footers have been in place for almost a year. I'm open to experimenting, but I find no compelling reason to change the Gaias. I recommend them if you're in the isolation camp. They are directional and do really "suction-cup" to the floor. You need a towel under them if you're going to tinker with speaker placement.

 

NB: sub settings were noted and remained constant for listening tests, otherwise who lnows what you'd be hearing.

 

BTW: There are two REL Ti7s here, one in front, one on a side wall. Neither is set per REL guidelines re: placement. But both are "isolated" from the floor. One is on basic cork/rubber squared things I always mean to replace, and the other (front) sub is on a platform I built for the purpose.

 

I tried many sub strategies, but prefer two units at different heights. The platform is 22" tall and rests on HAL dB Neutralizer strips. The platform itself has top and bottom in 3/4" MDF, 16 x16 inches. Inside of this "box" is a piece of Sono-tube (for pouring concrete footers-Home D has them) filled with fiberglass, unfaced batting, loosely stuffed in. I *think* it has eight 1" holes in the tube. I made it a while ago. The top and bottom sandwich the tube, and are further supported by 2x2s at the corners. The walls of the box are spanned with 2" rigid fiberglass. The whole business is wrapped in an open weave poly material (used on the bottoms of furniture for reupholstering).

 

May we consider the above a giant footer, so I'm not too far off-topic?
 

[MarkusBarkus]

17 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Exactly, all this heatsinks absolutely useless, melting point of aluminium about 660C

...I dunno, gets pretty hot here in summer. 😉

 

Actually, I had no concerns about the case melting. It seems to me if you're pulling heat out of the device, that would be a net-positive. I suppose the caveat to that would be if you were creating inconsistent temps/fluctuations that impacted components that preferred a steady-state operating temp. Then again, I was a humanities major, so...

[MarkusBarkus]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

Thinking about it, a little ventilation for the case could do wonders as well, especially if it was applied in such a fashion as to encourage convective airflow though the case... 

Hmm. That sounds like a chimney.
 

For marketing purposes, I think we should call it the BCS modification (Barrows Convection Stack. 

 

[MarkusBarkus]

On 7/27/2020 at 2:31 PM, MarkusBarkus said:

For marketing purposes, I think we should call it the BCS modification (Barrows Convection Stack. 

 

As a follow-up to this desecration, er experiment, measuring temp in various places on the case, fins and "stack" I find a maximum of 5 degrees F temp reduction. 
 

However, I do not find the temp to be constant, with or without the BCS mods. Playing music vs. idling seems to increase a bit, and of course, ambient temp differences are in play (It's +/- in a 4 degree range in my below-grade room).

 

It's always a bit cooler on the case with the stack and fins in place, from 2-5 degrees.
 

Logically, it seems this would be lowering internal temp, even if inefficiently.
 

Is this significant with regards to performance or longevity of internal components? I'd guess not so much, which is why the UpTone honchos are not "sweating" this item. And surely NOT recommending drilling holes in their case. That's all on me.

 

Still, always fun to drill holes and work the Dremel. BTW: I did remove the case top before drilling, of course. 

[MarkusBarkus]

25 minutes ago, cat6man said:

...his response was that you should just run digital from your cellphone and the result will be as good as you can get.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

That’s an analog phone :~)

...don't be fooled. It's the new Chord "old school" DAC. 

[MarkusBarkus]

...before ditching the TV, since it looks like he has to move an acoustic panel to watch anyway, I would have tried a light drapery over the TV re: reflections.
 

I have my gear between/slightly behind my speakers. I would prefer not to, as it is clearly a high pressure and vibration zone. Seems like it could impact imaging, no?

 

For me, the trade was *much* longer cabling and very awkward gear placement in the room.

And whatever I can do for vibration control (CF platforms, footers, wooden shelves).

 

My top choice would be to pass a large conduit through the wall: gear on one side, speakers on the other. 
 

I built the room, so that would have been easy to do. I deemed the additional expense of a divorce attorney to be cost prohibitive, so the plan was altered to current config.

[MarkusBarkus]

4 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 You sre unlikely to be able to achieve that low a resistance without a special grid

...@ASRMichael, I agree with @sandyk that you may not get much lower, but that said, it's not a giant effort to try a star grounding config, with the pits and magnesium powder.
 

Sounds like your sparky is game and knows what you're trying to do and likely knows the rule of thumb on this has been rods should be farther apart than they are deep, tightly bonded with good clamps. I think we still use #8 copper back to the box here (US). Grounding: So basic but so helpful, right?

[MarkusBarkus]

3 hours ago, cool_chris said:

I have a different dream .

Get all wifi off !

...I thought you only dreamed of Buffalos. 😉

 

Actually, I ran copper to a couple of devices that used to use WiFi to reduce its presence around the Listening Lair. I know it's still everywhere, but perhaps it reduces some impact. 

[MarkusBarkus]

@cool_chris, others: any experience with the PFBuffalo and Cisco 2960s before you went full-buff? Soon I will be integrating a PFB into a duo-chained 2960 config. 

[MarkusBarkus]

51 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

...So that’s my review of the impact of trio of Sean Jacob’s DC3/4s  
 

@Blackmorec Thanks for taking time to summarize your experience and "feelings" around the changes in your system.
 

All of my gear is on "someone's" upgraded power supply, but I do like the uniformity of your approach.

 

A few of us have @Nenon to thank (blame?) for his explorations into the mysteries of networked hi-fi. The PFBuffalo is a fantastic piece of work. And in a few days, a DC4 for the DAVE conversion. What a helluva lotta fun. Thanks again for the review. It was a genuine pleasure to read with a cup of java this morning.

[MarkusBarkus]

I recall John Siau's (Benchmark) comments on SMPS have been mentioned before, but here is a link for convenience as fyi:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/152143111-audio-myth-switching-power-supplies-are-noisy

 

NB: I do not own any Benchmark gear, but two friends do, and it sounds excellent...for a lot less money than I have into my stuff. Reviews of Benchmark are excellent as well.

 

The Chord DAVE has an SMPS inside, right? Watts seems pretty adamant that's what he wants there. And I am aware of the built-to-a-price thread, so please don't bombard me. 😉 Yes, you can make most anything "better" if cost is no object. 
 

And to pimp for a minute: I have @barrows PS on my Sonore OM and it is excellent, visually and sonically. 

[MarkusBarkus]

...there have been "sharp" exchanges on this topic and the "disconnected network" testing previously. 
 

I have a PFBuffalo switch and it sounds great just before the streamer. I'm good with any improvement I "think" it adds, because disconnecting the network other than for a test isn't practical/convenient. But a good test.
 

That said, if it takes four heavily modded switches to filter network/electrical noise to an acceptable level, we (some of us) are in real trouble.

 

Quite a bit back, @nenon or @romaz (or @somebody) pointed out that if this is a real phenomenon, then we really need to analyze and figure out what is going on upstream with the signal, if one needs all this stuff to clean it up. Apologies to whomever I am poorly paraphrasing, or misattributing. 
 

Not trying to start a food fight. I use the PF modded switch and it sounds great.
 

I previously daisy chained two 2960s and I thought it was a small improvement.

 

Since they're cheap to buy used, I tried two more, because anything worth doing is worth over doing. Four Ciscos in my network was a step backwards in SQ and a lot of boxes/plugs.
 

Now I have an eRG after the

modem... and the PFBuff before the Aurender. Tastes great. Less filling. 

Looks like fiber is coming to my neighborhood. I plan to use it for just the audio and leave everything else on cable/copper. 
 

Will that help? Help what? I'll find out...

[MarkusBarkus]

6 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Hi Jorge,

 

+1 on this too.

 

I started writing something similar yesterday but changed my mind as I was worried I'd offend you.

Ditto, Jorge. I have the OM on the first floor with modem, etc. and a 35' FO cable to the basement audio room. 
 

When I had the PF Buffalo mod done, I moved that switch very close to the Aurender streamer, connected via Sablon 2020 ethernet.

 

Then, it's "the old in/out" with the Phoenix, and off to Chordville HMS and DAVE. Lush^3s and Wave BNCs. Good LPSs on everything, which you already have.

 

It's a more streamlined route, and it sounds terrific. You already like your sound, but if you're considering the PF route, it might be at least worth considering the "Phoenix Solution." Happy Listening!

[MarkusBarkus]

I like the Planet MGB-TLX. 
Sonore OM to PFBuffalo. 35' SM cable run. Short Sablon ethernet into Aurender. Very smooth, IMO...

[MarkusBarkus]

[MarkusBarkus]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

The noise generated by those LEDs would be far below the needed amount to generate any interference if drawing a specified continuous current.

@sandyk, others: Would continuous be a caveat in this discussion?
 

In other words: would flashing LEDs such as in a switch be suspected to be a noise(ier) source, however small, as opposed to the steady-state indicators we see indicating "on" status, etc.? Cheers...

[MarkusBarkus]

13 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

I never heard bright and harsh from mine.

+1 or +3 in my case too. I saw @kennyb123 had posted some time ago that he had used them to good effect, so I tried one, liked it, and got two more. I used them with Farrad3s and later used one on a Phoenix USB "reclocker." All good in my use cases.

[MarkusBarkus]

@George HincapieHi George. The primary consideration is re: the shielding connecting two devices and creating ground issues. There are cables that are shielded, but either connected only at one end, or neither end. In that way, one gets the benefits of shielding without the ground loop consideration.
 

Some folks suggest the shielding is valuable; others say it degrades SQ. Belden is a good source for tested, quality ethernet cables. 

 

Personally, I have tested shielded and unshielded cable, and don't find a difference here. Keep the rubber-side down. Good luck with the cable project.

[MarkusBarkus]

...I have a strict "No Stack" policy, FWIW. Cheers...