Overall Isolation - network, USB, and power

[One and a half]

To kick off on another topic of isolation. it is known that SMPS create high impedance leakage currents, and are difficult to remove. Grounding the 0V is one cure, but what of devices like switches, fitting them with linear supplies helps, but this radio amateur found an effective method to block RF noise for his VHF transmission system, was to use large mother ferrites on the Ethernet cables.

Before and after RF has reduction. I thought RF wouldn't affect audio since we are down there in the frequency band, but that RF hash can be converted to conducted noise, so metal boxes may not be the answer.

 

Here's the page, worth looking at. Now this is cheap IT equipment causing RF problem with VHF!!

 

Before

 

After

[davide256]

On 12/19/2017 at 10:48 AM, tboooe said:

Here is an interesting tid bit....recently I had a little electrical mishap that burned out my downstream FMC connected to my NAA.  This forced me to switch from the dual port fiber nic in my HQP server PC to the standard copper mobo ethernet port to connect my NAA.  To my great surprise, I greatly preferred the sound in this configuration. The music was more immediate, visceral, and realistic. I am not sure how much impact removing the FMC or changing from the fiber port to the copper port had to do with this.  I will be getting the Delock after the Xmas to see how this compares.

hmm, were you using using an FMC connected to the Ethernet port of the NAA instead?

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, One and a half said:

To kick off on another topic of isolation. it is known that SMPS create high impedance leakage currents, and are difficult to remove. Grounding the 0V is one cure, but what of devices like switches, fitting them with linear supplies helps, but this radio amateur found an effective method to block RF noise for his VHF transmission system, was to use large mother ferrites on the Ethernet cables.

Before and after RF has reduction. I thought RF wouldn't affect audio since we are down there in the frequency band, but that RF hash can be converted to conducted noise, so metal boxes may not be the answer.

 

Here's the page, worth looking at. Now this is cheap IT equipment causing RF problem with VHF!!

 

Before

 

After

 

Interesting! I wonder if not the JSSG (farraday sleeves a la John Swenson) that I use on my Ghent ET02 ethernet cables are not doing the very same thing as the ferrite cores? I can tell you that those made a nice improvement. I wonder if I should try a ferrite clamp o each plug end as well to see if that make a noticable difference or not? There is ferrite absorbing sheets around as well that could be interesting to use for covering the plugs. Hmmm? 

I have seen that ferrite cores have been used before to improve ethernet speed. High speed= low RF noise? 

[One and a half]

3 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Interesting! I wonder if not the JSSG (farraday sleeves a la John Swenson) that I use on my Ghent ET02 ethernet cables are not doing the very same thing as the ferrite cores? I can tell you that those made a nice improvement. I wonder if I should try a ferrite clamp o each plug end as well to see if that make a noticable difference or not? There is ferrite absorbing sheets around as well that could be interesting to use for covering the plugs. Hmmm? 

I have seen that ferrite cores have been used before to improve ethernet speed. High speed= low RF noise? 

On the other hand ferrites on USB are really bad, they screw up the waveform. 

 

Have a look how many turns the author used on Ethernet cables to reduce the noise.

Im trying to understand at which point where the noise is transmitted, if it was just a single point, the noise would weaken the further away the victim is. In this case the cables conduct the noise freely throughout the house. So maybe the switches are to blame, propagating noise. 

 

Our cousins in the ham radio world despise noise just as much as we do, we have to look closer at their solutions, there’s valuable information we can use.

[Cornan]

9 minutes ago, One and a half said:

On the other hand ferrites on USB are really bad, they screw up the waveform. 

 

Have a look how many turns the author used on Ethernet cables to reduce the noise.

Im trying to understand at which point where the noise is transmitted, if it was just a single point, the noise would weaken the further away the victim is. In this case the cables conduct the noise freely throughout the house. So maybe the switches are to blame, propagating noise. 

 

Our cousins in the ham radio world despise noise just as much as we do, we have to look closer at their solutions, there’s valuable information we can use.

 

For sure the ham radio world have a lot to offer. Just look at their extensive use of grounding solutions! ?

 

Here is an interesting take on the subject of our own guru in case you have missed it?

 

 

[Albrecht]

41 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

For sure the ham radio world have a lot to offer. Just look at their extensive use of grounding solutions! ?

 

Here is an interesting take on the subject of our own guru in case you have missed it?

 

 

Thank you.. I missed this in the discussion: (faraday sleeves). Do you have a pic of your ET02s with these on them, - or do you have a link to the discussion and application of the sleeves? Thanks in advance, and sorry to make you repeat...

[Cornan]

8 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

Thank you.. I missed this in the discussion: (faraday sleeves). Do you have a pic of your ET02s with these on them, - or do you have a link to the discussion and application of the sleeves? Thanks in advance, and sorry to make you repeat...

 

You're welcome! ?

I have a bit of both. First my Ghent ET02 (15cm & 50cm).

My DC cables and USB cable have JSSG as well.

 

 

Here is one of John's many posts in the subject.

 

The CA search engine is recently improved vastly. Just search JSSG and you will find a lot of info. ?

 

[Albrecht]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

You're welcome! ?

I have a bit of both. First my Ghent ET02 (15cm & 50cm).

My DC cables and USB cable have JSSG as well.

 

 

 

Here is one of John's many posts in the subject.

 

The CA search engine is recently improved vastly. Just search JSSG and you will find a lot of info. ?

 

Hi, 

Sorry again. I have been using a Ghent JSSG USB cable in my bedroom system. And, - I've been looking at the Ghent JSSG ethernet cables. I mis-understood as I thought that you did some more tweaking and added another DIY tweak on top of the stock cables available for purchase on the Ghent site.

Thanks again.

Cheers,

 

[Cornan]

14 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

Hi, 

Sorry again. I have been using a Ghent JSSG USB cable in my bedroom system. And, - I've been looking at the Ghent JSSG ethernet cables. I mis-understood as I thought that you did some more tweaking and added another DIY tweak on top of the stock cables available for purchase on the Ghent site.

Thanks again.

Cheers,

 

 

No, not on the Ethernet cables, but on Ghents Canare starquad DC cables and my 8 conductor starquad USB cable and starquad DC cable from ATL Hi-Fi where I have added the JSSG though. It improves there just as much as on the ethernet side.

 

[Albrecht]

1 minute ago, Cornan said:

 

No, not on the Ethernet cables, but on Ghents Canare starquad DC cables and my 8 conductor starquad USB cable and starquad DC cable from ATL Hi-Fi where I have added the JSSG though. It improves there just as much as on the ethernet side.

 

 

Cool....

Thank you again Cornan!

Cheers,

[Superdad]

On 1/24/2018 at 10:33 AM, One and a half said:

On the other hand ferrites on USB are really bad, they screw up the waveform. .

 

So true—and they sound bad too!

[asdf1000]

On 25/01/2018 at 5:33 AM, One and a half said:

On the other hand ferrites on USB are really bad, they screw up the waveform. 

 

A different viewpoint from Rob Watts, on ferrites used with USB cables:

 

"What USB cables are best?

So what are the best USB cables? Firstly, be careful. A lot of audiophile USB cables actually increase RF noise and make it sound brighter, and superficially impressive - but this is just distortion brightening things up. Go for USB cables that have ferrites in the cable is a good idea - it may also solve any RF issues from the mobile that you may have too."
 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-94#post-12262339

 

[One and a half]

17 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

A different viewpoint from Rob Watts, on ferrites used with USB cables:

 

"What USB cables are best?

So what are the best USB cables? Firstly, be careful. A lot of audiophile USB cables actually increase RF noise and make it sound brighter, and superficially impressive - but this is just distortion brightening things up. Go for USB cables that have ferrites in the cable is a good idea - it may also solve any RF issues from the mobile that you may have too."
 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-94#post-12262339

 

Many years ago, when CA was a little child,  Kimber produced a USB cable with ferrites,  it was a disaster. Most of the time, there was nothing, or at worst horrible clicks mixed with music.

 

Totally agree that USB cables can and do sound different, and the RF noise makes the music brighter, but! The noise seriously screws with imaging and once the symptoms are known, the cure is to change the USB chain to suit. To date, this is difficult to achieve and takes a lot of experimentation.

[asdf1000]

25 minutes ago, One and a half said:

but! The noise seriously screws with imaging and once the symptoms are known

 

Noted. Just presenting the views of one of the better DAC designers out there. Lots of differing opinions out there regarding USB cables in general, even amongst the experts...

 

Who to believe!? Our own ears I guess.

 

[asdf1000]

Another quote from Rob on ferrites used with digital cables in general:

 

"Ferrites on digital cables have absolutely no down-side technically. But for analogue cables, proceed with extreme care, as ferrites, like all magnetic materials, have non-linearities, and the benefits may be be much smaller than the problems of the non-linearities. Principally we have two problems:
1. Hysteresis - this will cause straightforward high frequency distortion, and timing distortion, as signal delays depend upon previous activity. Both effects are highly audible.
2. Inductor saturation. As current flows in an inductor, the inductance value reduces with current; this in turn changes the phase angle, so the delay varies with current amplitude. This creates PIM (phase intermodulation distortion) and also creates non-linear timing errors too. Again, this effect is highly audible with large currents (loudspeaker outputs) on both inductors and in-circuit ferrites.

Experience has taught me not to use inductors or ferrite beads in-circuit with analogue, because of these problems, as they are directly measurable (with loudspeaker outputs), and certainly audible. The large ferrite cylinders are less of a problem, but nonetheless don't assume that a ferrite that is good on digital will be equally good on analogue."

 

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-107#post-13752481

 

[the_doc735]

On 12/30/2016 at 7:02 PM, austinpop said:

According to this data sheet, they all say External Power Adapter, 9V/0.6A or 5V/1A.

MC200CM (gigabit FMC):

Can I definitely use the mc200cm with a 5v/1a lpsu?

 

many thanks!

[thuandb]

Yes, definitely.  I've tried, they both work.

[mozes]

On 1/24/2018 at 4:25 PM, Cornan said:

 

Interesting! I wonder if not the JSSG (farraday sleeves a la John Swenson) that I use on my Ghent ET02 ethernet cables are not doing the very same thing as the ferrite cores? I can tell you that those made a nice improvement. I wonder if I should try a ferrite clamp o each plug end as well to see if that make a noticable difference or not? There is ferrite absorbing sheets around as well that could be interesting to use for covering the plugs. Hmmm? 

I have seen that ferrite cores have been used before to improve ethernet speed. High speed= low RF noise? 

I tested high quality ferrites vs JSSG360 shielding. There is no doubt that JSSG360 is superior. Lower noise with greater dynamics.

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

I tested high quality ferrites vs JSSG360 shielding. There is no doubt that JSSG360 is superior. Lower noise with greater dynamics.

 

Here I was writing about covering the plugs with ferrite material. Not the actual shielding of the cable. Have you tried to cover the actual plugs on the JSSG360 with ferrite material or JSSG/JSSG360 type of shielding?

 

Ps. Did you notice that this post is over a year old? Ds.

[mozes]

3 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Here I was writing about covering the plugs with ferrite material. Not the actual shielding of the cable. Have you tried to cover the actual plugs on the JSSG360 with ferrite material or JSSG/JSSG360 type of shielding?

 

Ps. Did you notice that this post is over a year old? Ds.

Over a year old I didn't notice, but I didn't try covering the plugs with ferrites. Why not, will look for some ferrites that can fit over the diameter of the plugs

 

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

Over a year old I didn't notice, but I didn't try covering the plugs with ferrites. Why not, will look for some ferrites that can fit over the diameter of the plugs

 

 

I suspected that you did’nt notice! 😊

I still have’nt tried with ferrites on the plugs either. Maybe time to give it a go after a year have gone by! 😁