Overall Isolation - network, USB, and power

[gstew]

<SNIP>

I have sold the EMO, the MFCs and the intona.

I confirm this is definitely better to get the lowest possible noise at the begining of the chain than to add noise trying to remove it later with added components.

B.

 

I think FOB69 has written one of the most profound and fundimental truths of this realm... Once you have noise polluting your silence, you will never get it out. The best you can do is reduce it, but you can NEVER get it out!

 

Keep that in mind!!!

 

Greg

[jabbr]

Batteries can be great but also tricky to work with. Supercaps have become dirt cheap. What is needed is a simple and inexpensive dual bank controller that auto switches between two banks of either batteries or supercaps and keeps the mains supply disconnected from the battery's or supercaps which are discharging. This project may be of interest: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/302881-dual-bank-floating-supercap-supply.html

[fob69]

Thank you.

With one 6A battery i have 7 hours charge so the switch between two battery is not really needed (at this time i load it two times a week at night with a cheap programmable switch). The relay switching noise migth be a problem with supercaps.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[jabbr]

Thank you.

With one 6A battery i have 7 hours charge so the switch between two battery is not really needed (at this time i load it two times a week at night with a cheap programmable switch). The relay switching noise migth be a problem with supercaps.

 

Trade offs. MOSFETs have less switching noise (certainly not the audible kind but have a very small leakage current, perhaps 10-100nA but usually <1 uA.

 

Supercaps less ESR than batteries but all these issues can be dealt with. Point being that great mains isolation is achievable with just a little bit of work.

 

 

Room treatments for headphone users

[gstew]

Batteries can be great but also tricky to work with. Supercaps have become dirt cheap. What is needed is a simple and inexpensive dual bank controller that auto switches between two banks of either batteries or supercaps and keeps the mains supply disconnected from the battery's or supercaps which are discharging. This project may be of interest: Dual Bank Floating Supercap Supply - diyAudio

 

Jabbr,

 

Thanks for the design and schematics over at DIYAudio. I have several places I could use this in my setups,, mostly for battery packs and less-critial gear

 

Is this a tested design and are boards available? Any pictures of finished projects using it.

 

Look for a good starting point on this.

 

THANKS!

 

Greg in Mississippi

[jabbr]

Jabbr,

 

Thanks for the design and schematics over at DIYAudio. I have several places I could use this in my setups,, mostly for battery packs and less-critial gear

 

Is this a tested design and are boards available? Any pictures of finished projects using it.

 

Look for a good starting point on this.

 

This will be usable with the most critical gear -- nothing preventing a low impedance regulator such as the Salas Shunt, or chip of choice being used after this.

 

The other issue is that precise voltage regulation is often vastly overrated. Ripple can be removed with capacitance and filtering which a wideband cap multiplier can provide. This approach reduces/eliminates the need for AC mains cleanup/filtering etc.

 

Looking at 10nA leakage MOSFETs which should do the trick

[gstew]

Watching with interest, looking forward to seeing actual built HW and experiences with how well it works.

 

No question that floating (not-grid-connected) power sources have benefits in certain situations. I'm hoping this project makes implementing them easier for the DIYer.

 

Greg in Mississippi

[musickid]

HELP NEEDED.....

 

Ive been using usb on my dacs till now. im buying a gunjnir multibit and a breeze du-u8 usb to spdif convertor in april. i prefer coax here. im new to coax implementation and have these two questions..

 

1)is it a matter of importance that the convertor has galvanic isolation built in to offer the same protection that say an intona can. i rarely see this described in the specs as on the breeze unit or other convertors. or is usb isolation something different here. i understand optical is not affected for eg.

 

2)is a chain as i will be using due to budgetary limits and a believer in keeping things simple okay like this...imac--bridge(du u8 breeze)--gungnir multibit dac. with decent cable connections. is this enough without the need for extra hardware tweaks (psu's ,regens etc) to do a good job. i understand the breeze convertor has excellent feedback low jitter etc.

 

many thanks to all.

[fob69]

Q

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Haninger]

Has anyone compared the SOtM iSO-CAT6 and Etalon LAN isolators?

[austinpop]

Has anyone compared the SOtM iSO-CAT6 and Etalon LAN isolators?

 

Or to the EMOSystems EN-70HD?

[Albrecht]

Has anyone compared the SOtM iSO-CAT6 and Etalon LAN isolators?

 

Hiya,

 

Just curious, are the Etalon Isolators available to purchase & ship to the USA?

 

Thanks,

[musickid]

with asynchrous usb the dac is control with its clock in timing the signal from the computer by sending packets of data to the pc controlling how and when information is received. with an intona or something like a regen is the dac asynchrous usb still fully in control as these devices also reclock the incoming data. if the dac is sending info and commands upstream back to the computer for timing does the digtal data have to pass through the intona or regen in the opposite direction back to the pc. if so do these devices interrupt the dac usb asynchrous to computer communication? thanks mk

[Ryelands]

Is the dac asynchrous usb still fully in control . . .

 

Yes though, as you know, the Regen is a hub and so is "enumerated" by the OS at boot time. The Intona OTOH is invisible to the OS.

 

HTH

 

Dave

[fob69]

The jitter is invisible to the os too. The fact that the regen and the intona are invisible to the os does not mean they have no impact on asynchronous drive process.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Ryelands]

The fact that the regen and the intona are invisible to the os does not mean they have no impact on asynchronous drive process.

The OP's question was "Is the dac asynchrous usb still fully in control?" not, at least as I understood it, whether the devices affected jitter levels for better or worse. I'm afraid I don't know what an "asynchronous drive process" is.

 

D

[lmitche]

with asynchrous usb the dac is control with its clock in timing the signal from the computer by sending packets of data to the pc controlling how and when information is received. with an intona or something like a regen is the dac asynchrous usb still fully in control as these devices also reclock the incoming data. if the dac is sending info and commands upstream back to the computer for timing does the digtal data have to pass through the intona or regen in the opposite direction back to the pc. if so do these devices interrupt the dac usb asynchrous to computer communication? thanks mk

Yes, the REGEN and Intona are bidirectional, so control signals flow back from the DAC to the PC through these devices. USB is half duplex, so data flows in only one direction at a time.

[musickid]

If the intona reclocks and reproduces the signal on the downstream as stated on the website is the usb signal or data reclocked on the upstream path from intona back to computer? if so if the dac is controlling the timing of packets of information in its communication to the computer how then is the intona not affecting this process again on the upstream if it also reclocks. the intona i had sounded nice but is it changing the sound signature of the dac?

[fob69]

If the intona reclocks and reproduces the signal on the downstream as stated on the website is the usb signal or data reclocked on the upstream path from intona back to computer? if so if the dac is controlling the timing of packets of information in its communication to the computer how then is the intona not affecting this process again on the upstream if it also reclocks. the intona i had sounded nice but is it changing the sound signature of the dac?

 

Thanks you. Same question.

It can be not transparent for assynchronous clocking.

 

It changes the sound, yes, but it does not affect the dac signature (it affects the source signature).

It adds some noise too.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[musickid]

i thought it is meant to eliminate computer noise. i find it hard to believe its transparent too. are these devices more beneficial with the good reports flooding in

[Haninger]

Hiya,

 

Just curious, are the Etalon Isolators available to purchase & ship to the USA?

 

Thanks,

 

Unfortunately, I do not know. I've heard good things but don't know how they compare with the SOtM filter.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[JohnSwenson]

If the intona reclocks and reproduces the signal on the downstream as stated on the website is the usb signal or data reclocked on the upstream path from intona back to computer? if so if the dac is controlling the timing of packets of information in its communication to the computer how then is the intona not affecting this process again on the upstream if it also reclocks. the intona i had sounded nice but is it changing the sound signature of the dac?

 

You need to understand how asynchronous USB mode works. First some background on USB audio:

 

In high speed mode packets are sent at 8KHz, period. Different sample rates work by sending differing number of samples per packet. In order to get a sample rate that is not an integer multiple of 8KHz, different packets have different number of samples. For example you might have 10 packets of 12 samples per packet then have one packet of 13 samples, then back to 12 sample packets etc. The computer assumes the packet rate is exactly 8KHz and produced a sequence of packet sizes to get the correct average sample rate assuming the 8KHz packet rate. This is done for both adaptive and asynchronous.

 

In asynchronous mode the data at the DAC side goes into a buffer and is clocked out by the local clock. If the buffer starts getting too full or too empty (because the local clock is running slightly slower or faster than it should be) it sends a packet back to the computer telling it to speed up or slow down. The computer does this by slightly changing the sample rate (say 44.104 KHz), which changes the sequence of packet sizes, which changes the overall average data rate.

 

Thus no actual clocks are sent from the DAC to the computer, the computer is free running sending the data, but the DAC tells it to speed up or slow down every so often so the average data rate matches the local clock.

 

The Intona DOES reclock the feedback packets coming from the DAC to the computer, but that doesn't matter, the precise timing of the bits on the bus does not mater, it is the DATA in the packet that matters (the speed up or slow down). The asynchronous protocol still works fine with the reclocking.

 

I hope that makes sense.

 

John S.

[musickid]

Thanks very interesting for a non technical music lover.

[jelt2359]

Has anyone had success replacing the switching regulator in the FMCs?

[fob69]

Hi

 

I just did it.

 

First, i took them away 6 monthes ago and replace them with an etalon isolator with a huge benefit, and i did add too a long ethernet distance between my switch and my etalon isolator (15m cat6 grounded only on switch side).

 

15 days ago i did change my internet box on my ethernet network and plug new equipments. I had to admit that even with the etalon isolator and the long ethernet wire, my new network config had downgrade image and timbres. It confirg to my the huge SQ impact of the noise coming from the network equipments (even with galvanic isolations).

 

I was about to buy linear supply for my new internet box, fiber modem, NAS ...  But before i did try to replug the MC110Cs btween my etalon filter and switch, on switch side.

 

I did see a good improvement especialy on the image but there was still some network impact on trebles as is was 6 monthes ago when i removed the MFCs (due to the 348kz signal of the PWM component).

 

 Then, considering again the PCB, i found a FAST, CHEAP way to bypass the PWM schitching supply in the MFC : i did unsold the "+" leg of the female jack plug of the pcb, an link it with to basic 2X 1A diods in serial to the PV3V3 hole close to the green electro condo.

Supplied by a standard 5V linear supply, the to diods downgrade the voltage to around 3,5 V just before the regulator, and the switching PWM component is short cutted.

 

This is the best 1$ upgrade ever.

 

All my network noise is now invisible from my player with the fiber bridge, and i bypass the switching power that is the main problem with the MFC.

 

The image ans definition is incredible.

 

I will post a photo this evening.

 

B.