SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[miguelito]

1 hour ago, greynolds said:

I would be inclined to trust the accuracy of the rip vs a download as there's no telling what the history was on the DSD file you downloaded. 

The file, like all official files in download stores, comes directly from the publisher. So I would expect it to be bit for bit identical to the file used to produce the SACD itself. 

 

Additionally, the question of how to compare two bitstreams is an interesting one itself. I would like to know how to do this.

[jegreenwood]

5 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Certainly.  One cannot assume the rip is bad based on any such comparison, only that the "disc and rip" might be different from the file.  If one is concerned about the accuracy of the rip, one can only assess this by comparison to another rip of the same disc and, even then, one would not know which, if either, is the accurate one.  How about a statistical study of multiple rips with different GUIs and/or different versions of sacd_extract.exe?  This whole issue is, imho, not worth the bandwidth. 

 

 

It seems to me that in theory what is really needed is a checksum or bitstream comparison between the rip and the SACD itself, That way you could determine whether the sacd_extract.exe. is an accurate rip.  If they are equivalent, then any differences are from the sources.

 

Trouble is, I don't know if that's possible to do.

[miguelito]

32 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

I completely agree.  The only issue for interest might be if you are able to get a download directly from the label/manufacturer.

That is EXACTLY what this is - the DSD download was purchased from HDTracks (and no longer available). 

 

More importantly, I would like to find a way to do this comparison as a general tool. I might just code it myself.

[jegreenwood]

5 minutes ago, miguelito said:

The file, like all official files in download stores, comes directly from the publisher. So I would expect it to be bit for bit identical to the file used to produce the SACD itself. 

 

Additionally, the question of how to compare two bitstreams is an interesting one itself. I would like to know how to do this.

You're more of an optimist than I am.  I've had a number of commercially released downloads with audible defects.  Lord knows how many I've had with inaudible defects, which could still screw up a comparison.  

[miguelito]

2 minutes ago, jegreenwood said:

It seems to me that in theory what is really needed is a checksum or bitstream comparison between the rip and the SACD itself, That way you could determine whether the sacd_extract.exe. is an accurate rip.  If they are equivalent, then any differences are from the sources.

I don't think this works. Just one bit pre or post the music bitstream breaks this. The only way to truly compare bit-for-bit is to align the streams somehow. There should be a tool to do this.

[MikeyFresh]

9 minutes ago, BlueSkyy said:

Probably not.

Definitely not.

[miguelito]

11 minutes ago, BlueSkyy said:

DBPoweramp has an "accurip" function that compares various rips from CDs and it lets you know if your rip compares to others.  I am not sure if there is an equivalent for SACDs, etc.  Probably not.

I have never found this to be useful. XLD does the Accuraterip comparison... It is never 100% because lots of CDs appear in many different pressing versions even if the music content itself is identical (eg one more second of silence at the end for example). 

[jegreenwood]

6 minutes ago, miguelito said:

I don't think this works. Just one bit pre or post the music bitstream breaks this. The only way to truly compare bit-for-bit is to align the streams somehow. There should be a tool to do this.

You miss my point. My point is that in theory to see if you're getting an accurate rip, you should be comparing the source of the rip (the SACD) with the resulting rip. 

 

Edited - my first download from Qobuz had dozens of audible clicks (before I stopped listening).  I'd be shocked if they were on the CD (which has been available for decades.).

[miguelito]

1 minute ago, jegreenwood said:

You miss my point. My point is that in theory to see if you're getting an accurate rip, you should be comparing the source of the rip (the SACD) with the resulting rip. Comparing the rip with with a download of a different copy of the recording may not be comparing apples and oranges, more like comparing two apples from the same branch.

I don't see how you could possibly compare the SACD to the rip without ripping it!

 

More importantly, as I said before, a tool that would align the music component and then give you a difference or at least a stat saying what the correlation between the aligned streams is would be a fantastic tool.

[kumakuma]

10 minutes ago, miguelito said:

I don't think this works. Just one bit pre or post the music bitstream breaks this. The only way to truly compare bit-for-bit is to align the streams somehow. There should be a tool to do this.

 

Didn't someone here develop a similar tool for PCM? Can't remember who or the name of the app though. 

[miguelito]

Just now, kumakuma said:

Didn't someone here develop a similar tool for PCM? Can't remember who or the name of the app though. 

That would be great. Such a tool would work, or be modifiable, to handle this case.

[kumakuma]

4 minutes ago, miguelito said:

That would be great. Such a tool would work, or be modifiable, to handle this case.

 

Found it:

 

 

[jegreenwood]

22 minutes ago, miguelito said:

I don't see how you could possibly compare the SACD to the rip without ripping it!

 

More importantly, as I said before, a tool that would align the music component and then give you a difference or at least a stat saying what the correlation between the aligned streams is would be a fantastic tool.

Note my bolding of in theory. Especially in my prior post where I add, "Trouble is, I don't know if that's possible to do."

[BlueSkyy]

1 hour ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Certainly.  One cannot assume the rip is bad based on any such comparison, only that the "disc and rip" might be different from the file.  If one is concerned about the accuracy of the rip, one can only assess this by comparison to another rip of the same disc and, even then, one would not know which, if either, is the accurate one.  How about a statistical study of multiple rips with different GUIs and/or different versions of sacd_extract.exe?  This whole issue is, imho, not worth the bandwidth. 

 

 

True story:  I used to worry about the density of the air in my listening environment because I was sure that my system sounded better during a significant depression where the barometric pressure was at 870 millibars rather than the standard 1013.25 millibars.  At one point I was considering building a pressurized environment for listening where I could control the barometric pressure in the room.  And then I came back to reality.

[BluRay444]

Each file contains more than just information to reproduce the media, be it music, video, etc. The file may or may not include a myriad of other information about the media other than the media itself, where the media originated or other watermarks, which may, over time change due to re-issues, re-pressings, etc., thumbnails of the physical media, copyright information, etc, and the originator of that media may use different watermarks based on who that media goes to, so if they license it to say, "SACD Tracks" (phony name) to distribute, it could potentially contain totally different information than what came from a ripped SACD, some of which could be used by the publisher to track the source of illegal copies. You can't simply presume that a file the original publisher provided for sale by a second party is the same as that found on a rip from an SACD without knowing the exact format that SACDs use to store information within a file, and editing out everything in the file except the actual media itself or using a program that is smart enough to do that. The way AccuRip works is not by saying that a rip is absolutely, positively bit-accurate, but by comparing it to a database of other AccuRip results and reporting the number of other rips that had the same results and by deducing whether or not your rip is accurate by the number of other rips that match yours. This also allows for the possibility to identify various releases, reissues, re-masterings of the same media that are also accurate... pretty smart way of doing it.

Simply 'realigning' two different rips won't technically work, all the other extraneous information must be eliminated so that an accurate checksum can be produced, either by removing the extraneous bits, or with a program that knows what information to ignore, unless the rips were made in the exact same way (same software and version, same SACD release, same ripping equipment...). Personally, I've never found enough information about the details of the SACD file format to be able to do that.

 

[tngiloy]

19 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

The AutoScript used in the Blu-ray player shown in your screenshot has not changed, keep using that exact folder on the USB flash drive. 

 

The sacd_extract.exe found in the GUI folder on your PC has changed/updated several times over the years, and yes v7 is old, 3.9.3 is current.

 

Replace that specific file with the latest enhanced version found on EuFlo's GitHub (scroll to the very bottom to reveal the Assets).

 

If you are using ISO2DSD, you might also wish to consider updating the GUI too, as mindset's SACDExtractGUI offers some additional functionality not found in ISO2DSD.

I keep getting 'failed to connect' error. I'm sure it's how the files are on the thumbdrive, but apparently, I don't understand the instructions and am doing it wrong.

I took the thumbdrive I had been using successfully before (last time a week ago) and replaced the sacd_extract.exe that was in there with sacd_extract-0.3.9.3-107-win64 . Would not connect. Drawer opened, I loaded an sacd and shut drawer. Opened the iso2dsd_gui.jar file from inside my SACD folder on the harddrive where it's located. Checked the IP address to make sure it jived with the Oppo's address and hit execute, and got 'failed to connect. I tried the older iso2dsd.exe file and it also failed.

I then decided to start new and reformatted the thumbdrive to fat32 to wipe it clean. Sent the old AutoScript and AutoScript.TSS files along with the new sacd_extract file to the thumbdrive. Here is where I'm confused. The instructions say to put the folders in a folder named AutoScript , so I created a new folder 'AutoScript' on the thumbdrive and moved the 3 folders into it. (See attached)

Inserted the thumbdrive in the Oppo, drawer opened, loaded disc and shut.

Opened the iso2dsd files (tried both .exe and. jar). Programs opened and IP address was still correct, hit execute and still get 'failed to connect.

I'm sure it's something simple I've done wrong, but don't know what. Guessing I don't understand the 'root file' thing. Please help.

Tom

 

 

 

[jegreenwood]

8 minutes ago, tngiloy said:

I keep getting 'failed to connect' error. I'm sure it's how the files are on the thumbdrive, but apparently, I don't understand the instructions and am doing it wrong.

. . . .

 

Haven't been following this too closely, but could the IP address of your Blu-Ray have changed?

[stereo hifi]

24 minutes ago, tngiloy said:

I took the thumbdrive I had been using successfully before (last time a week ago) and replaced the sacd_extract.exe that was in there with sacd_extract-0.3.9.3-107-win64 .

The files on the thumb drive don't change (maybe you can update sacd-extract on the thumb drive to the latest Linux version, not sure). Update the sacd-extract version on the PC.

[ksalno]

24 minutes ago, tngiloy said:

I keep getting 'failed to connect' error. I'm sure it's how the files are on the thumbdrive, but apparently, I don't understand the instructions and am doing it wrong.

 

Does the IP address of your player have any leading zeros? If it does, don't use them in the IP address field. For example, if the player has an IP addr of 192.168.001.100, input this into the ISO2DSD interface as 192.168.1.100. This caught me out when I first downloaded the newest version of sacd_extract.exe. Hopefully, it's the same for you.

[MikeyFresh]

31 minutes ago, tngiloy said:

I keep getting 'failed to connect' error. I'm sure it's how the files are on the thumbdrive, but apparently, I don't understand the instructions and am doing it wrong.

I took the thumbdrive I had been using successfully before (last time a week ago) and replaced the sacd_extract.exe that was in there with sacd_extract-0.3.9.3-107-win64 . Would not connect. Drawer opened, I loaded an sacd and shut drawer. Opened the iso2dsd_gui.jar file from inside my SACD folder on the harddrive where it's located. Checked the IP address to make sure it jived with the Oppo's address and hit execute, and got 'failed to connect. I tried the older iso2dsd.exe file and it also failed.

I then decided to start new and reformatted the thumbdrive to fat32 to wipe it clean. Sent the old AutoScript and AutoScript.TSS files along with the new sacd_extract file to the thumbdrive. Here is where I'm confused. The instructions say to put the folders in a folder named AutoScript , so I created a new folder 'AutoScript' on the thumbdrive and moved the 3 folders into it. (See attached)

Inserted the thumbdrive in the Oppo, drawer opened, loaded disc and shut.

Opened the iso2dsd files (tried both .exe and. jar). Programs opened and IP address was still correct, hit execute and still get 'failed to connect.

I'm sure it's something simple I've done wrong, but don't know what. Guessing I don't understand the 'root file' thing. Please help.

Tom

 

 

 

Again, as my post stated, you did not need to do anything at all with the AutoScript folder on the USB flash drive, nothing has changed there at all and you didn't have to go about messing with that in any way, no reformat or anything else was necessary there. If you re-read my post, it says exactly that.

 

I'll set that aside and you can sort out getting the USB flash drive put back just as you had it, probably wise to download a fresh AutoScript folder for Oppo-Cambridge all over again, and don't bother clicking into any of those files, just place the entire unzipped folder called AutoScript onto the USB flash drive and safely eject it. Hint: click the Download button in the Dropbox interface, not the individual files. I'll say it one more time, nothing needed to change on the USB flash drive as there have been no updates to that AutoScript component.

 

Your ISO2DSD folder on your PC has the old version of sacd_extract.exe, v7 you said. Just replace that single sacd_extract.exe file with the one you downloaded, and if your browser zipped that file for download, unzip it first, then place it into your ISO2DSD folder in place of the old one that you removed, just that single file.

 

Thats all, nothing else changes, the new file has the exact same name as the old one (sacd_extract.exe), and so long as it is located in that ISO2DSD folder in the same place that the old one was located, you are good to go.

 

 

[MikeyFresh]

24 minutes ago, jegreenwood said:

Haven't been following this too closely, but could the IP address of your Blu-Ray have changed?

No, his screenshots tell the story as did his post, he conflated changing something on the USB flash drive with updating the sacd_extract.exe component found in his ISO2DSD folder.

 

Two completely separate things, only the latter of which was to be updated.

[Kal Rubinson]

5 hours ago, miguelito said:

The file, like all official files in download stores, comes directly from the publisher. So I would expect it to be bit for bit identical to the file used to produce the SACD itself. 

 

5 hours ago, miguelito said:

That is EXACTLY what this is - the DSD download was purchased from HDTracks (and no longer available). 

I think that is reasonable to assume but it is certainly not assured.

 

4 hours ago, BluRay444 said:

You can't simply presume that a file the original publisher provided for sale by a second party is the same as that found on a rip from an SACD without knowing the exact format that SACDs use to store information within a file, and editing out everything in the file except the actual media itself or using a program that is smart enough to do that.

!!

[tngiloy]

2 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

Again, as my post stated, you did not need to do anything at all with the AutoScript folder on the USB flash drive, nothing has changed there at all and you didn't have to go about messing with that in any way, no reformat or anything else was necessary there. If you re-read my post, it says exactly that.

 

I'll set that aside and you can sort out getting the USB flash drive put back just as you had it, probably wise to download a fresh AutoScript folder for Oppo-Cambridge all over again, and don't bother clicking into any of those files, just place the entire unzipped folder called AutoScript onto the USB flash drive and safely eject it. Hint: click the Download button in the Dropbox interface, not the individual files. I'll say it one more time, nothing needed to change on the USB flash drive as there have been no updates to that AutoScript component.

 

Your ISO2DSD folder on your PC has the old version of sacd_extract.exe, v7 you said. Just replace that single sacd_extract.exe file with the one you downloaded, and if your browser zipped that file for download, unzip it first, then place it into your ISO2DSD folder in place of the old one that you removed, just that single file.

 

Thats all, nothing else changes, the new file has the exact same name as the old one (sacd_extract.exe), and so long as it is located in that ISO2DSD folder in the same place that the old one was located, you are good to go.

 

 

Thanks. Got it running. I should have explained that I'm a computer moron.

[Bill Mac]

I've ripped quite a few SACDs using my Oppo 103, laptop (Windows 10) and Sonore ISO2DSD program. I haven't ripped any SACDs lately but now I'm getting the error message "Failed to connect libsacdread: Can't open ***.168.01.100:2002 for reading".

I tried the 103 with the wireless setting and ethernet with a connected cable. It doesn't matter as I get the error message either way. I have the auto play and auto resume settings of the 103 off. Could it be that my version of Sonore ISO2DSD is out dated? Any thoughts on what the issue is would be much appreciated .

 

I might have found the issue. The IP on ISODSD is ***.168.1.100 but the 103's IP Address is ***.168.1.101. How can I change the 0 to a 1 in ISODSD?

[Crwilli57]

Did you check to make sure the OPPO is still at the address on your network?

 

First thing to check.  
 

192.168.1.???:2002???