SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, thriftyaudiophile said:

In using it as a BD player, I found it doesn't output Dolby Atmos or DTS sound (IIRC it may have the earliest BIOS firmware). 

What is it connected to and how?

[thriftyaudiophile]

14 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

What is it connected to and how?

 

Denon AVR-S750H.   Have it connected out of HDMI-1 directly to the TV 9Vizio M series FWIW) and HDMI-2 to the AVR.  Atmos or DTS aren't available as options, but are from the computer (only other Atmos source). 

 

Edit.  The F/W revision is BDP10X-77-0827 which is the 4th most-recent.  Movie is 1917.

[MikeyFresh]

1 hour ago, thriftyaudiophile said:

 

Denon AVR-S750H.   Have it connected out of HDMI-1 directly to the TV 9Vizio M series FWIW) and HDMI-2 to the AVR.  Atmos or DTS aren't available as options, but are from the computer (only other Atmos source). 

 

Edit.  The F/W revision is BDP10X-77-0827 which is the 4th most-recent.  Movie is 1917.

I can't comment on any of your surround format questions, however the latest firmware is compatible with ripping SACD, you can upgrade the firmware and it will not break the ability to rip SACD.

[greynolds]

@thriftyaudiophile this really isn't the thread to diagnose Oppo playback issues, but make sure your HDMI audio output is set to bitstream mode in the Oppo settings.  I highly doubt that the firmware version being used is the problem, but as others have said you can update to the latest firmware and still rip SACDs.  There are threads for general support of the various Oppo players over on AVS Forum where the issue can be handled; several of the Oppo beta test team still participate.  Not sure if there are appropriate sub-forums or threads to get help on that issue here on Audiophile Style.

[Kal Rubinson]

12 hours ago, thriftyaudiophile said:

Denon AVR-S750H.   Have it connected out of HDMI-1 directly to the TV 9Vizio M series FWIW) and HDMI-2 to the AVR.  Atmos or DTS aren't available as options, but are from the computer (only other Atmos source). 

 

Edit.  The F/W revision is BDP10X-77-0827 which is the 4th most-recent.  Movie is 1917.

Do you have the Oppo set to "Split A/V" or "Dual Display?"  It must be set to the former because, with "Dual Display," the audio limitations of the TV will be applied to the output to the AVR.  Also, make sure that you have also selected "Bitstream" for the HDMI audio output. 

[thriftyaudiophile]

Thanks all.  Not asking to fix the Oppo Dolby sound issues but whether updating the F/W will break the SACD ripping capability.  Seems it won't so I will UG the F/W later today.

 

FWIW, the output was already set to bitstream and to split A/V.  I borrow BDs from the library anyway so not that invested into fixing the problem other than for not getting to enjoy the full experience!  I think it may be an issue with how that particular BD as encoded. 

[thriftyaudiophile]

Asked in AVSforums and the problem was Secondary Audio was set to On.

 

Now to find another SACD and try to rip!

[meega]

Greetings! I am late to the party and since it's not feasible to read through thread with over 200 pages, I very likely will make comments for things that were already discussed in the past in one form or another. So, anyway, as someone that is always interested how the things are made and why are made in such way, I want to ask about the history of this method:

 

1. it's closed source tool contrary to open source 'sacd-ripper'/'sacd-extract', correct? even it re-uses 'sacd-extract' as its base. do you know why it was made closed-source? I have a speculation on that, which I will share in my next point.

 

2. strangely enough, it was built with "mediatek-linux-gnueabi" v4.41 as ARM cross-compiler, which as far as I can tell, is not publicly available (correct me if I am wrong!). So, i think, that's why it was made closed-source as it was assumed the general public cannot build it from the source code. that suggests to me the author is some "insider" and by that I mean someone that at least has access to those not-publicly-available tools, like v4.41 of "mediatek-linux-gnueabi" ARM cross-compiler. if it was released as source code that it will draw immediately attention that whoever made it has access to not-publicly-available compiler required to build it. At least that is my wild speculation...I could be totally wrong though.

 

3. the above 2 are even more strange, considering the fact that since 2012 (i.e. 3-4 years before this was made, assuming it was made around 2016 as when this thread was started), the newer version 4.51 of "mediatek-linux-gnueabi" was already publicly available as part of Western Digital effort to comply with GPL license for their "WD TV Live" player device based on the same Mediatek ARM SoC generation:

 

https://support.wdc.com/downloads.aspx?p=161&lang=en

 

So, that's how "outsider" like me thinks and does - googles for mediatek-gnueabi cross-compiler and the only one that pops out there is v4.51 that WD released and not v4.41 used to build this tool. It's even further very strange choice, because if you go to:

 

https://oss.sony.net/Products/Linux/common/search.html

 

and download the kernel source code for your BDP player, which Sony, as WD, were forced to make publicly available due to the GPL license, you will find README file inside saying respectively for their ARMv6 and ARMv7 devices:

Quote

"The toolchain used is armv6z-mediatek451_001_vfp-linux-gnueabi"

or

Quote

"The toolchain used is armv7a-mediatek451_001_vfp-linux-gnueabi"

 

BTW, WD released cross-compiler version 4.51 for both ARMv6 and ARMv7, i.e. "armv6z-mediatek-linux-gnueabi" and "armv7a-mediatek-linux-gnueabi" even in their archive they are misleadingly named:

* "armv6z-mediatek-linux-gnueabi" is inside folder called "vfp_4.5.1_2.6.27_arm11-rhel4" and based on that very misleading name someone would assume it's cross-compiler to be run on ARM11 in RedHat Enterprise Linux 4, but immediately inside that folder there is folder "i686", i.e. the files are actually for x86 architecture and allow you to build "armv6z-mediatek" executable files.

* "armv7a-mediatek-linux-gnueabi" is inside folder called "vfp_4.5.1_2.6.27_cortex-a9-rhel4" and again based on that misleading name you would think it's cross-compiler to be run on Cortex-A9 ARM in RedHat Enterprise Linux 4, but immediately inside that folder is again folder "i686", i.e. the files are actually for x86 architecture and allow you to build "armv7a-mediatek" executable files.

 

Bottom, line is that WD files plus Sony kernel from the links above give you everything necessary to build any tool for your Mediatek-based (Sony or even other brand) player, they are newer version than what was used to build the tool for this method plus they are publicly available. It all makes no sense to me, at all, why the tool for this method was build the way it was build - again, if we are not talking about some insider having access to v4.41 and thus don't care what is publicly available.

 

4. I know, at least one user here "mindset" is aware of the general architecture of the tool, because "mindset" made post in this forum:

 

 

 

explaining about "sacd_read.ko". So, the method uses modified 'sacd-extract' that loads "sacd_read" kernel object. All useful work is actually done by "sacd_read.ko", that's why it baffles me why at all 'sacd-extact' was re-used. I mean as far as I can tell that gives the following functionality:

 

4.1. network access, which at least to me is useless and pointless, because you need to be physically next to the player to insert disc and then it's just more convenient to connect USB storage device locally

 

4.2. nice name of the ISO, instead something general like "dump.iso". However, that in fact is huge disadvantages in my eyes for 2 main reasons:

 

* giving those nice names is essentially inheritance from 'sacd-ripper', because it operates on "Scarletbook"-level, i.e. on file-system level, instead on Physical-Sector-level as it's best to do for any disc-dumper. the only reason for that is (it was discussed as part of the issues in the original "code.google.com" web-page of sacd-ripper project) that in PS3 it's not possible (or it's unknown) how to tell if particular Physical Sector is Encrypted or not (not all sectors on SACD disc are encrypted). That's why 'sacd-ripper' uses Scarletbook-file-system to get which sectors are occupied by the Stereo and Multi-Channel area and (wrongly) presumes all of them are encrypted. That leads to problem documented in other thread in this very forum:

 

 

 

when you need to modify 'sacd-ripper' for some discs in order to reverse that presumption.

 

* the other disadvantage, I already mentioned in the above paragraph, i.e. work on logic-level, i.e. file-system-level, rather than on raw physical-sector level.

Further more "sacd_read.ko" taps and reuses even the kernel functions to read the disc, instead implements its own functions for that and thus be able to write proper log file and make sure there are no errors during reading of the raw physical sectors from the disc.

 

5. Bottom line, is all it's done in way not to my taste, that's why I took out 'sacd-extract' from the picture and make my own client for "sacd_read.ko" - that relieves all of the issues/things I don't like. Anyway, my alternative client is using raw SCSI commands to control the optical disc drive directly, that's why via SCSI commands it can even gets the device name. Here is how the logs it writes look like:
 

Quote

 

[LOG] Kernel IO Memory Read & Write is successful!

[LOG] System: MTK 8560B             8888
[LOG] Drive : MTK 8550KF1500      85501500
[LOG] Drive : Loading tray...
[LOG] Drive : Disc load time was 2.40 seconds.
[LOG] Drive : Disc profile is    DVD-ROM.
[LOG] Checking if the loaded  DVD-ROM has:
[LOG] "Pit Signal Processing-Physical Disc Mark"
[LOG] yes, it has...SACD disc present version: 0
[LOG] Dumping Physical Sectors...
[LOG] No Errors.
[LOG] Dump completed in 14.85 minutes.

 

 

So, if there is interest, I will release it as open-source tool, but you still need to extract and use "sacd_read.ko" as user "mindset" explained in the post I mentioned earlier. Just for completeness to mention - errors are ultra rare, but they did happen (I guess it depends on the shape of your disc and also the shape of the laser and the optical drive in the player) in such case in the log you get message "Expected Sector number xxx, but got yyy". In any way, I think having log than pure "blackbox" approach is much better, but who knows... maybe it's just my paranoia...

 

[Phthalocyanine]

Hi @meega and welcome to the party!

I encourage you to develop your open-source tool.

I do not have the technical background to grasp everything you are saying here, but we have several contributors, including @mindset that do, and hopefully can offer suggestions.

[Kal Rubinson]

On 12/1/2021 at 10:39 PM, thriftyaudiophile said:

Denon AVR-S750H.   Have it connected out of HDMI-1 directly to the TV 9Vizio M series FWIW) and HDMI-2 to the AVR.  Atmos or DTS aren't available as options, but are from the computer (only other Atmos source). 

Since you are sending out both HDMI outputs (and assuming that you have good reason to do so), please check to see that you have set Dual HDMI Output: to Split A/V and not to Dual Display.  Also check to see that you have set Output Resolution: to 720p or higher and HDMI Audio: to Bitstream.

[meega]

1 hour ago, Phthalocyanine said:

I do not have the technical background to grasp everything you are saying here...

yeah, it's a long post, but still it cannot explain everything in full details and easy to understand, that's why it requires some technical background, no doubt...

 

anyway, in the mean time as general user, what you can do is grab all 4 files from:

 

https://support.wdc.com/downloads.aspx?p=196&lang=en

 

I already noticed that I got confused even myself by very close names, because now I realize that in my initial post I posted a link to "WD TV Live" files:

 

https://support.wdc.com/downloads.aspx?p=161&lang=en

 

when I meant "WD TV Play" device, which is the one that is MTK SoC-based:

 

https://support.wdc.com/downloads.aspx?p=196&lang=en

 

So, grab the 4 files for "WD TV Play" - they are quite large, 3-4GB in total. Also, grab the  kernel sources for your BDP compatible player from:

 

https://oss.sony.net/Products/Linux/common/search.html

 

I don't know if other brands of compatible players released their kernel sources (even they are obligated under the GPL). In any way, you need at least 1 kernel source for ARMv6 and one for ARMv7. I own S5100, which is ARMv6. So, nothing is done for ARMv7 - sorry if I already disappointed all ARMv7 device owners...

 

 

 

[EugenF]

20 hours ago, meega said:

So, if there is interest, I will release it as open-source tool, but you still need to extract and use "sacd_read.ko"

One year ago, after 6 months of research, I succeed to build a standalone app for an iso direct ripping on a usb flash drive.

It was a concept proof for educational purposes only and can be run on all ARM brand players (armv6/linux kernel 2.6.27 and armv7/ kernel 3.10, or a mix of them).

Of course the app uses the appropriate kernel driver/module sacd_read.ko only (I did not use WD TV Play).

 

So there is an interest here. Please release it.

If I can (and have time), maybe I can help.

[BlueSkyy]

Greetings folks and I hope your New Year is starting out spectacularly!

 

I have a question about the need to upgrade:  The files I am using with my OPPO date back to mid 2016.  As of today, the operation works well but, as the incessant upgrader, I am wondering if I would benefit from obtaining the latest and greatest versions of SACD_Extract and ISO2DSD, etc or do you recommend that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"?

 

If upgrades are warranted please help an old guy out with the correct link for the Windows 10 software!

 

Thanks in advance!

[MikeyFresh]

2 hours ago, BlueSkyy said:

Greetings folks and I hope your New Year is starting out spectacularly!

 

I have a question about the need to upgrade:  The files I am using with my OPPO date back to mid 2016.  As of today, the operation works well but, as the incessant upgrader, I am wondering if I would benefit from obtaining the latest and greatest versions of SACD_Extract and ISO2DSD, etc or do you recommend that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"?

 

If upgrades are warranted please help an old guy out with the correct link for the Windows 10 software!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

There is no newer version of ISO2DSD, however a possible upgrade alternative there is setmind's SACDExtractGUI, it offers some enhancements that you may find useful.

 

The sacd_extract application for Windows has definitely been upgraded a few times since 2016, replace the .exe file you have currently with the latest -107 version found in EuFlo's GiHub repository (scroll to the very bottom to reveal the assets).

[BlueSkyy]

2 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

There is no newer version of ISO2DSD, however a possible upgrade alternative there is setmind's SACDExtractGUI, it offers some enhancements that you may find useful.

 

The sacd_extract application for Windows has definitely been upgraded a few times since 2016, replace the .exe file you have currently with the latest -107 version found in EuFlo's GiHub repository (scroll to the very bottom to reveal the assets).

Thanks MikeyFresh!  I appreciate the point out!

[3dsoundshop]

Could use a little help...

 

I am having some difficulty with 2.0/5.0 SACD ISOs... When playing the file back on my Oppo 203. I only get stereo instead of multichannel. My display show SACD 5.0 but I only get 2.0. My 5.1 ISOs work properly. I don't understand.

 

This is the SACD: https://bis.se/performers/sampson-carolyn/js-bach-cantatas-vol30-solo-cantatas-bwv-51-and-1127

 

Here are some images from the Oppo

 

Thanks

[3dsoundshop]

I've also tried to convert the ISO to DSF and FLAC files using ISO2DSD and DSD2FLAC. Same verdict for both via the Oppo.

[greynolds]

That's really a question for a more general purpose Oppo UDP-203 thread than the SACD ripping thread.  This thread is about getting the data off the disc (something the UDP-203 can't be used for), not how to play it once ripped.  IIRC, there are playback options on the Oppo players that allow you to select 2 channel or multichannel, so start there.  If that's not it, I'd suggest looking for an Oppo specific playback thread on audiophilestyle or post in the Oppo 203 thread on AVS Forums where you should get the answer you need.

[Kal Rubinson]

2 hours ago, 3dsoundshop said:

Could use a little help...

 

I am having some difficulty with 2.0/5.0 SACD ISOs... When playing the file back on my Oppo 203. I only get stereo instead of multichannel. My display show SACD 5.0 but I only get 2.0. My 5.1 ISOs work properly. I don't understand.

 

This is the SACD: https://bis.se/performers/sampson-carolyn/js-bach-cantatas-vol30-solo-cantatas-bwv-51-and-1127

Thanks

Why does your 5.0 rip say SACD PCM?  How did you convert the ISO to DSD?

[3dsoundshop]

1 hour ago, greynolds said:

That's really a question for a more general purpose Oppo UDP-203 thread than the SACD ripping thread.  This thread is about getting the data off the disc (something the UDP-203 can't be used for), not how to play it once ripped.  IIRC, there are playback options on the Oppo players that allow you to select 2 channel or multichannel, so start there.  If that's not it, I'd suggest looking for an Oppo specific playback thread on audiophilestyle or post in the Oppo 203 thread on AVS Forums where you should get the answer you need.

Good idea... I'll try that. Thanks

[3dsoundshop]

On 1/26/2022 at 4:20 PM, Kal Rubinson said:

Why does your 5.0 rip say SACD PCM?  How did you convert the ISO to DSD?

Hello Sir

 

My 5.0 rip says sacd PCM because that's how I have it sent to output from the Oppo.. My Smyth Realiser is not capable of processing DSD just yet. (maybe never) 

 

I used ISO2DSD for the conversion.

 

Over at quadraphonicquad... Someone mentioned the need for sacds in 5.0 to be converted to 5.1 for Plex compatibility. It's an old thread so they may not get back to me...

 

Any idea how to add the .1 to my 5.0 SACDs?

 

PS... The Realiser is receiving a 2.0 signal from the Oppo when it should be receiving a 5.0.

 

Thanks

[Kal Rubinson]

5 minutes ago, 3dsoundshop said:

Any idea how to add the .1 to my 5.0 SACDs?

Not in DSD.  Only in PCM.  https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/music-media-helper-new-tool-for-channel-volume-editing.28401/

[3dsoundshop]

12 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Not in DSD.  Only in PCM.  https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/music-media-helper-new-tool-for-channel-volume-editing.28401/

Thanks Kal... 

 

Thankfully I don't have that many 5.0 SACDs. 🤪

[miguelito]

Someone mentioned to me that ripping SACDs with this method rendered suboptimal DSF files.

 

I rip SACDs with the original method using a PS3 and ISO2DSD. The result is great.

Sorry if this was discussed ad-nauseum... Please point me them. 

 

Thank you!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

4 minutes ago, miguelito said:

Someone mentioned to me that ripping SACDs with this method rendered suboptimal DSF files.

Which method are you referring to?