Maybe spending stupid amounts of money on power cords isn't entirely harmless

[Priaptor]

Some companies shouldn't exist. Nordost may be one of them. That the owners and employees have families to feed doesn't justify immoral actions.

 

You are talking morality and the right to exist based on morality. Few people would be left standing with that metric.

[Priaptor]

I think the following quote is applicable to this discussion:

 

The Dude: "Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron"

[r_w]

Can't argue with that, otherwise all fraudulent activity would be justified if it were supporting a family. I think they possibly should exist if they address their pricing.

 

I guess asking for example a thousand pounds for a bit of wire isn't fraud by default, probably just piss taking on a monumental scale. Rigging demos is of course vile behaviour and I sincerely hope they didn't stoop that low.

 

Offer value, play fair and be respectful is my mantra for business - it's not a big ask.

 

PS: I've just spent £850 on Mark Grant mains cables, but I got 12 of them and a mains block for that money = a fair value proposition to me.

 

 

Some companies shouldn't exist. Nordost may be one of them. That the owners and employees have families to feed doesn't justify immoral actions.

[mansr]

I guess asking for example a thousand pounds for a bit of wire isn't fraud by default, probably just piss taking on a monumental scale. Rigging demos is of course vile behaviour and I sincerely hope they didn't stoop that low.

 

Charging a ludicrous amount of money for a mundane object is fine with me as long as you don't present said object as something it is not. It's that last part that puts Nordost on shaky moral ground.

[Indydan]

OK, I will give it a shot:

 

1. The thread has nothing to do with belief or disbelief in magical cable properties, but rather the gag order used to suppress skepticism.

2. Cable skeptics on CA are not in the majority. Only a believer with a persecution complex would see it otherwise.

 

3. Belief in gods, creation myths, etc, is based upon faith, not empirical evidence. Belief in magical properties of cables whose differences defy physical measurement is also based upon faith, not empirical evidence. Therefore the cable believers are the ones who should be classified as being intellectually allied with Creationists, Flat-Earthers, conspiracy theorists, and so on.

 

I can keep going, but I doubt reason and logic will hold much sway.

 

The legal action by Nordost was not to stop skepticism, but to make Waldrep take back the claims he made. Claims he could not prove or provide solid evidence for. In this case, Waldrep made irresponsable claims he could not back up. These claims were damaging to Nordost.

 

Nordost then did what any company or individual would do to protect their reputation. If Waldrep had solid evidence like he did in the case of the Audioquest HDMI cables demo video, he would have every right to point the finger at Nordost. In the Nordost case, he went to the court of public opinion and did not have a smoking gun. He simply had a lot of like minded supporters shouting angrily to back him up (like a certain man with orange hair, who puts his name on buildings).

[lucretius]

Charging a ludicrous amount of money for a mundane object is fine with me as long as you don't present said object as something it is not. It's that last part that puts Nordost on shaky moral ground.

 

And to be clear, here are some of the claims made by Nordost:

 

ODIN 2 SPEAKER CABLES

 

 

The meticulous layout of this flat speaker cable minimizes skin effect and reduces damping, while the mechanically tuned lengths reduce internal microphony and decrease high frequency impedance.

 

The state of the art technology applied to Nordost’s most advanced speaker cable provides extremely wide bandwidth signals along with unmatched dynamic resolution.

 

 

 

VALHALLA 2 SPEAKER CABLE

 

 

The transmission speed of the cable is extremely fast, at 97% the speed of light. V2 exemplifies state of the art technology with very wide bandwidth signals and minimum phase shift. It delivers incredible transient response and dynamic resolution, preserving depth of musical detail and allowing listeners to follow complex recordings with ease.

 

 

 

ODIN 2 ANALOG INTERCONNECTS

 

 

The low mass, dual ring design of the HOLO:PLUG® facilitates “asymmetrically balanced” cables, while the gold-plated, solid brass alloy pins reduce vibrations, eddy currents and harmful non-conductive elements when mated to other components. The combination of these aspects produces unprecedented resolution and seamless transfer of information, so that every nuance of musical detail is captured.

 

 

 

VALHALLA 2 ANALOG INTERCONNECT

 

 

V2 is extremely fast, at over 87% the speed of light. It transmits wide bandwidth signals with incredible speed and minimum phase shift. The V2 cable is state of the art, bettered only by the mighty Odin. It delivers incredible transient response and dynamic resolution so that no musical detail is lost.

 

 

 

ODIN 2 POWER CORD

 

 

These intricately wound and separately insulated conductors are aligned with superb geometrical accuracy and consistency, offering perfect conditions for mechanical resonances. To allow for a faster rise time in the 50/60 Hz cycle and negate any EMI or RFI influences, each conductor is then protected by a layer of silver-plated lapped ribbon shielding.

 

The exceptional electrical and mechanical characteristics of this cable produce an overwhelming effect. Incorporating Odin 2 Power Cords throughout your system will result in a seemingly non-existent noise floor, an infinitely black background and the true depth in range that music calls for.

[Priaptor]

And to be clear, here are some of the claims made by Nordost:

 

ODIN 2 SPEAKER CABLES

 

 

The meticulous layout of this flat speaker cable minimizes skin effect and reduces damping, while the mechanically tuned lengths reduce internal microphony and decrease high frequency impedance.

 

The state of the art technology applied to Nordost’s most advanced speaker cable provides extremely wide bandwidth signals along with unmatched dynamic resolution.

 

 

 

VALHALLA 2 SPEAKER CABLE

 

 

The transmission speed of the cable is extremely fast, at 97% the speed of light. V2 exemplifies state of the art technology with very wide bandwidth signals and minimum phase shift. It delivers incredible transient response and dynamic resolution, preserving depth of musical detail and allowing listeners to follow complex recordings with ease.

 

 

 

ODIN 2 ANALOG INTERCONNECTS

 

 

The low mass, dual ring design of the HOLO:PLUG® facilitates “asymmetrically balanced” cables, while the gold-plated, solid brass alloy pins reduce vibrations, eddy currents and harmful non-conductive elements when mated to other components. The combination of these aspects produces unprecedented resolution and seamless transfer of information, so that every nuance of musical detail is captured.

 

 

 

VALHALLA 2 ANALOG INTERCONNECT

 

 

V2 is extremely fast, at over 87% the speed of light. It transmits wide bandwidth signals with incredible speed and minimum phase shift. The V2 cable is state of the art, bettered only by the mighty Odin. It delivers incredible transient response and dynamic resolution so that no musical detail is lost.

 

 

 

ODIN 2 POWER CORD

 

 

These intricately wound and separately insulated conductors are aligned with superb geometrical accuracy and consistency, offering perfect conditions for mechanical resonances. To allow for a faster rise time in the 50/60 Hz cycle and negate any EMI or RFI influences, each conductor is then protected by a layer of silver-plated lapped ribbon shielding.

 

The exceptional electrical and mechanical characteristics of this cable produce an overwhelming effect. Incorporating Odin 2 Power Cords throughout your system will result in a seemingly non-existent noise floor, an infinitely black background and the true depth in range that music calls for.

 

How are their claims any different some the other ludicrous claims by other audiophile companies?

 

OR:

 

Osteo Bi-Flex:

 

"Joints are pretty phenomenal: they're responsible for every movement we make! That's why we created Osteo Bi-Flex®, the only leading joint care brand with Joint Shield™, to help defend your joints and improve joint mobility.* This formula also includes MSM, to further support joint comfort and mobility.* With Osteo Bi-Flex®, joint health is just a hop, skip and a jump away!*"

 

*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

 

How many on these forums take and swear by these "supplements".

[lucretius]

How are their claims any different some the other ludicrous claims by other audiophile companies?

 

Sadly, they are not.

[mansr]

The legal action by Nordost was not to stop skepticism, but to make Waldrep take back the claims he made.

 

Same thing.

[wgscott]

The legal action by Nordost was not to stop skepticism, but to make Waldrep take back the claims he made. Claims he could not prove or provide solid evidence for. In this case, Waldrep made irresponsable claims he could not back up. These claims were damaging to Nordost.

 

Nordost then did what any company or individual would do to protect their reputation. If Waldrep had solid evidence like he did in the case of the Audioquest HDMI cables demo video, he would have every right to point the finger at Nordost. In the Nordost case, he went to the court of public opinion and did not have a smoking gun. He simply had a lot of like minded supporters shouting angrily to back him up (like a certain man with orange hair, who puts his name on buildings).

 

If Nordost produced empirical evidence to substantiate their claims, I would believe them rather than Waldrep. If Nordost threatens legal action, I believe Waldrep rather than Nordost. The old cliché, "When the law is not on your side, stick to the facts, when the facts are not on your side, stick to the law", applies.

 

The gag order is designed to suppress what is most likely a valid skeptical observation, and to serve as a lesson to anyone else who dares to challenge the high priesthood audio bullshit orthodoxy.

[lucretius]

The legal action by Nordost was not to stop skepticism, but to make Waldrep take back the claims he made. Claims he could not prove or provide solid evidence for. In this case, Waldrep made irresponsable claims he could not back up. These claims were damaging to Nordost.

 

 

I read Mark's blogs. He talks about what a "young man" had apparently witnessed. Then, he talks about his experience sitting through the demo; he stated "I think that explains the increased volume that the audience experienced throughout the demo. The presenter played the same music from a different track. .... The Nordost demo was simply not believable. Small isolation cones and expensive power cords do not cause an audio system to get louder, if they do anything at all. ... If a power cord resulted in an increase in the volume of the output signal then using a Vahalla 2 power cord to connect a lamp to a wall socket would cause it to glow more brightly...and that doesn't happen!"

 

I would not call the above irresponsible claims. Rather, they are an expression of skeptism and opinion. When a cable company makes claims about how its cables are superior to others, or how they improve the sound of your system, the onus should be on the claimant to prove his claim, not the skeptic.

[kumakuma]

If Nordost produced empirical evidence to substantiate their claims, I would believe them rather than Waldrep. If Nordost threatens legal action, I believe Waldrep rather than Nordost. The old cliché, "When the law is not on your side, stick to the facts, when the facts are not on your side, stick to the law", applies.

 

The gag order is designed to suppress what is most likely a valid skeptical observation, and to serve as a lesson to anyone else who dares to challenge the high priesthood audio bullshit orthodoxy.

 

The ironic thing is that their decision to go this route has probably done more damage to their business than just doing nothing would have.

[Priaptor]

If Nordost produced empirical evidence to substantiate their claims, I would believe them rather than Waldrep. If Nordost threatens legal action, I believe Waldrep rather than Nordost. The old cliché, "When the law is not on your side, stick to the facts, when the facts are not on your side, stick to the law", applies.

 

The gag order is designed to suppress what is most likely a valid skeptical observation, and to serve as a lesson to anyone else who dares to challenge the high priesthood audio bullshit orthodoxy.

 

AND how is that any different than anything else that occurs in the normal daily life in America as I debated with Allan F? One other thing, if Waldrep had the cash he could have "challenged" the high priesthood of audio bullshit and ignored the cease and desist and defend his claims.

[master]

And to be clear, here are some of the claims made by Nordost:

 

ODIN 2 SPEAKER CABLES

 

 

The meticulous layout of this flat speaker cable minimizes skin effect and reduces damping, while the mechanically tuned lengths reduce internal microphony and decrease high frequency impedance.

 

The state of the art technology applied to Nordost’s most advanced speaker cable provides extremely wide bandwidth signals along with unmatched dynamic resolution.

 

 

 

VALHALLA 2 SPEAKER CABLE

 

 

The transmission speed of the cable is extremely fast, at 97% the speed of light. V2 exemplifies state of the art technology with very wide bandwidth signals and minimum phase shift. It delivers incredible transient response and dynamic resolution, preserving depth of musical detail and allowing listeners to follow complex recordings with ease.

 

 

 

ODIN 2 ANALOG INTERCONNECTS

 

 

The low mass, dual ring design of the HOLO:PLUG® facilitates “asymmetrically balanced” cables, while the gold-plated, solid brass alloy pins reduce vibrations, eddy currents and harmful non-conductive elements when mated to other components. The combination of these aspects produces unprecedented resolution and seamless transfer of information, so that every nuance of musical detail is captured.

 

 

 

VALHALLA 2 ANALOG INTERCONNECT

 

 

V2 is extremely fast, at over 87% the speed of light. It transmits wide bandwidth signals with incredible speed and minimum phase shift. The V2 cable is state of the art, bettered only by the mighty Odin. It delivers incredible transient response and dynamic resolution so that no musical detail is lost.

 

 

 

ODIN 2 POWER CORD

 

 

These intricately wound and separately insulated conductors are aligned with superb geometrical accuracy and consistency, offering perfect conditions for mechanical resonances. To allow for a faster rise time in the 50/60 Hz cycle and negate any EMI or RFI influences, each conductor is then protected by a layer of silver-plated lapped ribbon shielding.

 

The exceptional electrical and mechanical characteristics of this cable produce an overwhelming effect. Incorporating Odin 2 Power Cords throughout your system will result in a seemingly non-existent noise floor, an infinitely black background and the true depth in range that music calls for.

 

If anyone would read that, believe it, and then act on it - they are deserving of what's coming their way.

 

Unless Nordost is selling to 6 year old's who don't know any better or folks with an IQ of 40 or thereabouts.

 

The rest, well it is their money and nobody has a right to demand they spend their money on something else or Nordost stop with those exorbitant prices.

 

I'm all for standing up against scams and false claims. However, telling a company how much it should charge for its products and services is crossing the line.

 

If only it were that easy... I'd rid the world of Apple first before going after high end audio cable manufacturers.

[Priaptor]

If anyone would read that, believe it, and then act on it - they are deserving of what's coming their way.

 

Unless Nordost is selling to 6 year old's who don't know any better or folks with an IQ of 40 or thereabouts.

 

The rest, well it is their money and nobody has a right to demand they spend their money on something else or Nordost stop with those exorbitant prices.

 

I'm all for standing up against scams and false claims. However, telling a company how much it should charge for its products and services is crossing the line.

 

If only it were that easy... I'd rid the world of Apple first before going after high end audio cable manufacturers.

 

We are all getting our balls in an uproar because it pertains to our absurd hobby.

 

As I stated above there are many more harmful scams than Nordost and as I stated above I would bet many on this thread buy and eat those useless supplements, etc based on ZERO substantiation as to their benefits. As I pointed out their "benefits" are so nonexistent that they have to put a disclaimer in that there is no proof yet most Americans still buy them.

[jabbr]

Should we infer from this that you agree with a certain presidential candidate's stand on using nuclear weapons in Europe and elsewhere?

 

I that how you define "dual" in your part of the world? I was picturing folks trying to whip eachother with their power cords until one party submits.

[christopher3393]

What's all this fuss about power chord demos? We all know they're usually lame. I watched this whole "Survey and Study of Power Chords demo and NONE of them sounded good to me!The Lagrange power chord was particularly weak-ass:

 

[bluesman]

What's all this fuss about power chord demos? We all know they're usually lame.

That's because it takes another string to do it right......

 

[gmgraves]

Sorry, George, it's not quite that simple. Oral testimony is evidence. The person who did the demonstration could testify about the procedure he followed, indicating that nothing was done to alter the volumes. He might tender the CD he used in evidence. Other Nordost employees who assisted might testify to the same thing. Nordost could possibly present a witness to testify that that he had tested the CD with tracks of identical content but different track numbers, and found that the volumes were the same. Of course, the foregoing is just speculation on my part.

 

The onus of proof in a civil case is on a "balance of probabilities" or a "preponderance of evidence". Of course, Nordost's witnesses would be subject to cross-examination, but it would be quite difficult to cast doubt on their evidence. It is unlikely that Waldrep could offer more than his opinion regarding volume levels to counter Nordost. Unless there was also evidence upon which a judge could rely to make a finding of credibility against Nordost and its witnesses, he would most likely have to rule in the latter's favour. I say "likely" and "probably" because the outcome of a trial can seldom, if ever, be predicted with certainty.

 

Regardless, I doubt that it was Nordost's intention to go as far as to file a lawsuit and take the matter to trial. Their strategy more likely was to intimidate Waldrep to get him to remove his piece and issue a retraction - which is exactly what he did. They might not be able to present the evidence imagined in the first paragraph. Had Waldrep refused to do so and decided to fight Nordost, we don't know what Nordost's next step would have been or how things might have turned out. Waldrep might have saved himself a lot of money and aggravation by doing what he did, although I would expect that he wasn't very happy about doing so.

 

Of course, oral testimony is evidence. But the question then becomes one of the gravitas associated with that testimony. Nordost can have all of their people testify that everything Nordost did was on the up-and-up, but the judge (or jury) would still be faced with the fact that these people are Nordost employees who depend on the company for their livelihoods. That alone casts aspersions on their evidence.

[gmgraves]

I checked with everyone else. We are all voting for Bernie.

 

...or would if he were the candidate. Unfortunately, it looks like the next pres will be a Madam Pres. And this one's no Maggie Thatcher, either.

[wgscott]

The ironic thing is that their decision to go this route has probably done more damage to their business than just doing nothing would have.

 

One can only hope.

[Priaptor]

...or would if he were the candidate. Unfortunately, it looks like the next pres will be a Madam Pres. And this one's no Maggie Thatcher, either.

 

There is still hope.

 

If the legal system is really legitimate as Allan F would have us believe she may get indicted and serve meals in a prison rather than serve as President. On the other side Trump's head may explode from flammable hairspray.

 

Another way of looking at it is that both Trump and Clinton are willing to do the job no illegal alien (or undocumented immigrant) is willing to do

[Indydan]

Same thing.

 

No it isn't.

 

 

nu·ance

ˈn(y)o͞oˌäns/

noun

 

 

• 1.
  a subtle difference in or shade of meaning, expression, or sound.
  "the nuances of facial expression and body language"
   
   
   
  
  

 

[Indydan]

Some companies shouldn't exist. Nordost may be one of them. That the owners and employees have families to feed doesn't justify immoral actions.

 

"Immoral"! In a world that has Monsanto, the Koch brothers' enterprises and many others of the same kind, you put all of this energy into wiping from existence, a company that makes audio products for audiophiles and hobbyists...

 

Sensible priorities...

[mansr]

"Immoral"! In a world that has Monsanto, the Koch brothers' enterprises and many others of the same kind, you put all of this energy into wiping from existence, a company that makes audio products for audiophiles and hobbyists...

 

Sensible priorities...

I'd be happy to debate Monsanto on an agriculture forum.