Maybe spending stupid amounts of money on power cords isn't entirely harmless

[gmgraves]

Waldrep does not have a reputation for making stuff up out of thin air. Cable makers (in general) do.

 

 

You mean things like their entire business model?

[Allan F]

The fact he flinched when Nordost stuck back with a pen of their own (pun intended) indicates he did not think the posts all the way through.

It does!? I don't think so. Rather, it shows that he was likely intimidated or otherwise influenced to avoid the potential aggravation and high cost of litigation. Probably a wise move on his part as Mark Waldrep is not a wealthy man. And, BTW, that is not a pun.

[Kimo]

You mean things like their entire business model?

 

So, you don't think that an audiophile cable manufacturer's reputation can be tarnished?

 

It does seem like an awfully risky thing to do, just to make a claim that most won't really care about that much.

[Paul R]

He is basically stating that the presenter committed fraud and speculating as to how he pulled it off. There is no right or wrong way to do this. There may be more careful ways to do this, but the allegation remains substantial.

 

Allege fraud, and you will open yourself up to a claim. Prove fraud and you have won a claim.

 

I guess the legal subtleties are beyond my grasp.

 

Guess we will just have to disagree on this one. I definitely believe there is a right and a wrong way to publish things like this.

 

-Paul

[Paul R]

It does!? I don't think so. Rather, it shows that he was likely intimidated or otherwise influenced to avoid the potential aggravation and high cost of litigation. Probably a wise move on his part as Mark Waldrep is not a wealthy man. And, BTW, that is not a pun.

 

Seriously, if he had thought it out, he would have been prepared, no? This has all the telltales of an opportunistic savaging of a company with no expectation of there being consequences to the journalist. (shrug) Probably different in Canada, where the rights and expectations of media are slightly different.

 

-Paul

[wdw]

Seriously, if he had thought it out, he would have been prepared, no? This has all the telltales of an opportunistic savaging of a company with no expectation of there being consequences to the journalist. (shrug) Probably different in Canada, where the rights and expectations of media are slightly different.

 

-Paul

 

Spot on, Paul. 1+ From Canada

[wgscott]

In Canada, corporations aren't even allowed to be people.

[jabbr]

In Canada, corporations aren't even allowed to be people.

 

Mitt Romney was correct by definition-- see dictionary;)

[wdw]

In Canada, corporations aren't even allowed to be people.

Believe it was Pat Buchanan, the towering nitwit, that called us "Soviet Canuckistan". See all up here when the Donald is Coronated...oops, elected!

[Allan F]

Seriously, if he had thought it out, he would have been prepared, no? This has all the telltales of an opportunistic savaging of a company with no expectation of there being consequences to the journalist. (shrug) Probably different in Canada, where the rights and expectations of media are slightly different.

 

-Paul

I am not a Mark Waldrep fanboy and I often disagree with his opinions (e.g. his DSD bashing), but I believe that he was doing no more than what he often does when he has an axe to grind. My guess is that he probably and reasonably anticipated that, if Nordost responded, it would do so in the form of defending the integrity of its demo and/or refuting his claims. Frankly, I am rather surprised that Nordost resorted to legal action given that Waldrep's blog is hardly a major or significant publication.

 

Your criticism of "not thinking it through" can be recklessly directed at anyone who is the subject of legal action for something they have done or said. An overly broad brush, IMO.

[MikeJazz]

The agressive response from nordost is also an indication that they have something to hide. They prefer to make the suspicions be hidden that to provide an opportunity to an independent and volume controlled test.

I attended a few of Nordost demos and was never fully convinced, of the radical differences communicated.

Then, once I was testing wilson shophias at the local reseller...when I complained that the bass quality was not satisfactory, with bass quite uncontrolled, then the used speaker cable was changed to nordost. Bass control and resolution improved very noticeably.

Bottom line... There is quality in some of those nordost products. I just wish that they used a less agressive defense tactics and woul be more transparent...

[plissken]

Nordost: I doth think they protest too much.

 

I think that letter was sent because his supposition hit too close to the mark. The absolute truth is the remedy in this case. Either for Mr. Waldrep or Nordost.

[Allan F]

The absolute truth is the remedy in this case. Either for Mr. Waldrep or Nordost.

In theory only. How do you propose that the "absolute truth" be determined? Do you have any idea what it would cost Waldrep to stick to his guns and defend against a lawsuit? Nordost has very deep pockets; he doesn't.

 

OTOH, if Nordost continues to put on these demos with the practice of playing the same song from different tracks of the CD, people in the audience should publicly challenge them to show that the different tracks are not recorded at different volumes.

[plissken]

In theory only. How do you propose that the "absolute truth" be determined? Do you have any idea what it would cost Waldrep to stick to his guns and defend against a lawsuit? Nordost has deep pockets; he doesn't.

 

I would have redacted my statements also in this case. It's not worth it without a smoking gun. I prefer my approach:

 

I've got a $1000 that says a Nordost PC that meets IEC spec won't be distinguishable from a cable that I make that will also meet the same spec. I'd be willing to do this at Nordost's place and system of their choosing.

 

It's worked here before :-)

[wdw]

The agressive response from nordost is also an indication that they have something to hide. They prefer to make the suspicions be hidden that to provide an opportunity to an independent and volume controlled test.

I attended a few of Nordost demos and was never fully convinced, of the radical differences communicated.

Then, once I was testing wilson shophias at the local reseller...when I complained that the bass quality was not satisfactory, with bass quite uncontrolled, then the used speaker cable was changed to nordost. Bass control and resolution improved very noticeably.

Bottom line... There is quality in some of those nordost products. I just wish that they used a less agressive defense tactics and woul be more transparent...

As my signature lists, I use Nordost and have heard the improvements, during their demos, when working up their product line. I think they have the bone fides and are not the "hippie" cables people get annoyed by but I'm sure everyone will pay quite strict attention to any future demos.

I think their response is appropriate as these posts from Waldrep were inflammatory, clearly aggressive and libelous...he should be shut down and silenced.

Nordost can be accused of many things, cables of greater cost than the equipment they're attached to, etc...but flagrant and wilful dishonesty isn't one of them.

Waldrep should feel the full extent of any legal avenues available to the company.

Too many of these little [email protected] feel the internet gves them a wall of immunity.

End of rant.

All you cable haters, with a stick up your butt, the efficacy of power chords isn't the subject of this thread.

Now's the end of my rant.

Best,

WDW

[gmgraves]

So, you don't think that an audiophile cable manufacturer's reputation can be tarnished?

 

It does seem like an awfully risky thing to do, just to make a claim that most won't really care about that much.

 

By definition, cable manufacturer's reputations are not just tarnished, they're non-existent.

 

I dunno, shouldn't people have a right to their own opinion, and a right to voice that opinion? Doesn't the First Admendment guarantee that right?

[master]

By definition, cable manufacturer's reputations are not just tarnished, they're non-existent.

 

I dunno, shouldn't people have a right to their own opinion, and a right to voice that opinion? Doesn't the First Admendment guarantee that right?

 

But that's not what happened here.

 

He accused Nordost of fraud - lying and cheating wilfully - while demonstrating their cables were better.

 

Opinion would have been - yes they sound louder but they also lost detail, they were too bright, etc.

 

Telling someone their products don't deliver is one thing, calling them fraudsters is an entirely another matter.

 

BTW, I'm on Mark's side, but he could have done better. Maybe asked to play his own music. I've been to 100s of demos and auditions, and not once have I been denied/stopped from playing my music on my CD or USB.

 

Sure they might not have allowed that here, and that would have given Mark more reason (ammo) to write about. But right now as things stand it was all speculation and an accusation of committing fraud - and more importantly without proof. That would get anyone into hot water.

[mansr]

As my signature lists, I use Nordost and have heard the improvements, during their demos, when working up their product line. I think they have the bone fides and are not the "hippie" cables people get annoyed by but I'm sure everyone will pay quite strict attention to any future demos.

I think their response is appropriate as these posts from Waldrep were inflammatory, clearly aggressive and libelous...he should be shut down and silenced.

Nordost can be accused of many things, cables of greater cost than the equipment they're attached to, etc...but flagrant and wilful dishonesty isn't one of them.

Waldrep should feel the full extent of any legal avenues available to the company.

Too many of these little [email protected] feel the internet gves them a wall of immunity.

End of rant.

All you cable haters, with a stick up your butt, the efficacy of power chords isn't the subject of this thread.

Now's the end of my rant.

Best,

WDW

Wow, what a load of ignorant, biased drivel.

[esldude]

 

It's worked here before :-)

 

Depends upon your definition of "worked".

 

I can't even get people to listen unsighted for free with nothing on the line beyond anonymously voting in a poll.

 

All the flowery prose about what is heard, and I get pretty much no response on 8th generation copies vs original files and a smart phone vs original files. Yet somebody downloaded some of them.

[wgscott]

Nobody would take the hearing test I posted either.

 

I wonder what could be going on?

 

It wasn't like I was trying to get them to listen to Fiona Apple.

[wgscott]

Wow, what a load of ignorant, biased drivel.

 

He'll stick you in the eye with a Sort Kone if you aren't careful.

[esldude]

Nobody would take the hearing test I posted either.

 

I wonder what could be going on?

 

It wasn't like I was trying to get them to listen to Fiona Apple.

 

Well the initial version gave people 8 other choices that weren't Fiona Apple. So that was a low blow Bill.

[wgscott]

Well the initial version gave people 8 other choices that weren't Fiona Apple.

 

I wasn't able to hear a difference between her and the other 8. Clearly I am not an audiophile. My equipment isn't revealing. My power cords are generic.

 

So that was a low blow Bill.

 

Sorry! Please don't sue me!

[plissken]

Depends upon your definition of "worked".

 

I can't even get people to listen unsighted for free with nothing on the line beyond anonymously voting in a poll.

 

All the flowery prose about what is heard, and I get pretty much no response on 8th generation copies vs original files and a smart phone vs original files. Yet somebody downloaded some of them.

 

At least one person participated in my last Bounty thread. And the loudest and most belligerent of people... Well lets say it's better to keep your mouth shut than to speak and show your ignorance or lack of faith.

[beautox]

By definition, cable manufacturer's reputations are not just tarnished, they're non-existent.

 

So what definition is that exactly? Or are you just referring to your own opinion?