Maybe spending stupid amounts of money on power cords isn't entirely harmless

[Allan F]

You're using Newtonian physics in this discussion? Haven't you read some of the more salient issues discussed here on propagation and delay in the dialectic, etc...no EE but there is more here than Newtonian dogma.

Could you mean dielectric by any chance? Maybe it's time for you to change spell checkers.

[wgscott]

.I am reasonably intellectually principled, technically minded and can hear improvements in the heirachy of Nordost cabling.

 

Can you do so, reproducibly, when it is a double-blind test?

 

If so, that is quite compelling. If not, then one has to worry about expectation biases and so forth.

[wgscott]

Could you mean dielectric by any chance? Maybe it's time for you to change spell checkers.

 

 

Maybe he is referring to the Hegel DAC.

[YashN]

No doubt....just must imagine there are many things yet unexplained.

 

True. Unexplained, or rather unexplained by the classical body of knowledge, but explained with newer knowledge and experimentation.

 

Then, there is also much more insidious: active, deliberate suppression and obfuscation.

 

Certainty is, at times, a kind of stupidity. How many times has this been told as a story of earlier scientists standing somewhere making some statement.

 

Indeed, and there will be new things discovered at an increasing rate with statistical methods (Deep Learning).

[wdw]

Can you do so, reproducibly, when it is a double-blind test?

 

If so, that is quite compelling. If not, then one has to worry about expectation biases and so forth.

This is all understood. Not sure if the rude rigor of a DBT can assist. Just was with my doctor this morning for a check up and she talked about the white coat effect when measuring heart rate....how can we overcome this subjective and unquantifiable barrier?

[Allan F]

Maybe he is referring to the Hegel DAC.

[wdw]

Maybe he is referring to the Hegel DAC.

In spite of your hubris, I love ya...tis true, my germanic inheritance...

[lucretius]

Or maybe you're the one that's not familiar with VW. The software you refer to is not 3rd party. Its OE. All auto makers outsource a huge portion of their cars to be made by other companies. Tires-Goodyear, Radio-Sony, Glass-Corning, etc. The just don't have the ability to make every piece that goes into the cars. In this particular case, VW didn't write the software for your car themselves. They contracted Ross Tech to do it for them. That makes it OE and not 3rd party. This if from the website you list.

 

"Official Factory Repair Information

Official Factory Repair Information for VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda and VAG based Bentley products is available directly from the manufacturers. erWin does include Repair Manuals, Wiring Diagrams, Technical Service Bulletins (TSB) / Technical Product Information (TPI), Vehicle Identification (by VIN) and much more. These sources are broken down by vehicle market including RoW and NAR:"

 

Not only that, Ross Tech is contracted to make the interface (VCDS) that is used by some of the manufacturers. They re-brand and list them as factory SST's. I know Ford and Mazda interfaces come from Ross Tech. They call it a VCM instead of VCDS, but its the same basic tool.

 

If you still don't believe me after all this, I don't know what to say except that I'm not wasting any more time arguing with you. If you're just looking to win the argument for the sake of winning the argument, then fine, you can win. I really don't care.

 

LOL, you're back! Took you long enough! At least this time you are not swapping between synonymous terms to create confusion (i.e. BCM/ECU).

 

VCDS, while used by some VW dealers, is not OEM. This is OEM: https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?type=Tools&ItemId=43910013 You can ask Ross Uwe himself.

 

Also, VCDS is a diagnostics software, i.e. code puller etc. It's not the software copied onto the ECU. You had said previously that this software must come from the car manufacturer -- I showed you that you can get such software (for the ECU) from a third party (https://www.goapr.com/).

 

I afraid I no longer know where you are trying to go with this.

[wdw]

LOL, you're back! Took you long enough! At least this time you are not swapping between synonymous terms to create confusion (i.e. BCM/ECU).

 

VCDS, while used by some VW dealers, is not OEM. This is OEM: https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?type=Tools&ItemId=43910013 You can ask Ross Uwe himself.

 

Also, VCDS is a diagnostics software, i.e. code puller etc. It's not the software copied onto the ECU. You had said previously that this software must come from the car manufacturer -- I showed you that you can get such software (for the ECU) from a third party (https://www.goapr.com/).

 

I afraid I no longer know where you are trying to go with this.

Gents,

This thread is well beyond it's due date but you two need to find a room. No one gives a sh?t about flashing the ROM on a VW.

[gmgraves]

How in the hell do you know this?

 

What they advertise that their cables can do for the sound of one's system, is counter to the laws of physics. They count on the fact that their clientele don't know enough physics to realize that what they sell does nothing, and yet they continue to insist that their products make a real difference in SQ, and are therefore worth the exorbitant prices that they charge for their products. That is, by definition, a lie*

 

*A lie: relating a story or passing-on as true information that one knows to be false.

[gmgraves]

You're using Newtonian physics in this discussion? Haven't you read some of the more salient issues discussed here on propagation and delay in the dialectic, etc...no EE but there is more here than Newtonian dogma.

 

 

All of of those things you mention can be easily measured and mathematically calculated. And while they are real, they do not apply at the low frequencies that constitute audio.

[mayhem13]

That is rather harsh - and it assumes that Nordost has done something immoral in this situation. That assumption is totally unjustified, what have they done that is immoral? Nothing, they merely defended themselves.

 

As should already be clear, Nordost the company does not appear to have deep pockets for legal services, and moreover, took the minimal and least aggressive actions possible in self defense.

 

Now the other party? That guy did something that at best is on the border of crazy town.

 

Regardless of the claims to what the companies cables do or don't do, Paul is dead on here......this is all in poor taste and a less than scientific attempt at slander. It deserves no more merit than any subjective report or reviews on the other side FOR the use of specialized cables.

 

....it actually sets us objectivists back a few notches to the naysayers that many audiophiles claim us to be......shame on Mr. Waldrep in his approach and methodology.

 

And someone mentioned a 'lack' of understanding of physics enough to to make informed decisions as to the limits a cable or interconnect can have on sound quality......MAJOR B.S..

I don't know too many 'stupid' millionaires or similiar that can afford such insanely costly cables for an audio system. Tell me the last time you met a gullable self made millionaire? Last time I checked, my money didn't grow on a tree for easy pickings.

 

Whether or not cables make a difference isn't really the discussion here. If Audiophile Andrew takes pleasure and finds value in his cables, who are we to question his purchasing motives. Subjective experiences are just that.....individual and personal expression and NOT meant to be factual or literal in interpretation. We can all reasonably see dog$hit for dog$hit through the prose and scientific psychobabble when presented. In those cases, why even bother to read to conclusion or debate......wasted energy i say!

 

Back to picking my fortune from the branches......lol

[r_w]

In the UK the equivalent quality/value appears to be Mark Grant Cables, I use him on occasions when I don't make my own.

 

 

That's why I always purchase BlueJeans Cables. They are guaranteed to be gauge invariant.

[rrwwss52]

Shakespeare was right about lawyers.

[firedog]

In the UK the equivalent quality/value appears to be Mark Grant Cables, I use him on occasions when I don't make my own.

 

FYI-

 

Bluejeans have a UK web site: bluejeanscable.co.uk

 

Items ship from the US, but typically ship the day of order and will take 2-3 days to arrive.

 

I did a quick comparison, of an order consisting of a pair of analog interconnects, a pair of digital interconnects, and a pair of 5m speaker wire. The BlueJeans prices were much cheaper than Mark Grant, even when including overseas shipping, VAT, etc to the UK. Blue Jeans calculates your final price, including shipping and all taxes, so you know the full amount you pay on arrival.

 

I'm making no claims that one is better than the other. But I've never heard of anyone who didn't appreciate BJC as well made and worth the money.

[Allan F]

Shakespeare was right about lawyers.

I am virtually certain that you either don't know or don't understand what Shakespeare wrote.

 

The quote is from Henry VI, Part 2: "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers". The meaning was that without lawyers to uphold law and order and stand in his way, a rebel could usurp the throne and become king. It was not a criticism of lawyers, but rather praise for their role.

 

Accordingly, I can't help but agree that Shakespeare was right about lawyers.

[r_w]

Cheers for that info.

 

Mark has got a great reputation over here, he uses very high quality parts, such WBT connectors, etc. I know that bluejeans are also a very good company with similar ethics - both of these companies are a real credit to this industry.

 

I'm still an advocate of making your own cables, where applicable, but sometimes I'm happy for someone else to spec and make them for me... as long as my trousers stay up whilst I'm paying for them.

 

;-)

 

 

FYI-

 

Bluejeans have a UK web site: bluejeanscable.co.uk

 

Items ship from the US, but typically ship the day of order and will take 2-3 days to arrive.

 

I did a quick comparison, of an order consisting of a pair of analog interconnects, a pair of digital interconnects, and a pair of 5m speaker wire. The BlueJeans prices were much cheaper than Mark Grant, even when including overseas shipping, VAT, etc to the UK. Blue Jeans calculates your final price, including shipping and all taxes, so you know the full amount you pay on arrival.

 

I'm making no claims that one is better than the other. But I've never heard of anyone who didn't appreciate BJC as well made and worth the money.

[lucretius]

Gents,

This thread is well beyond it's due date but you two need to find a room. No one gives a sh?t about flashing the ROM on a VW.

 

You're right. My apologies to the group!

[lucretius]

I am virtually certain that you either don't know or don't understand what Shakespeare wrote.

 

The quote is from Henry VI, Part 2: "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers". The meaning was that without lawyers to uphold law and order and stand in his way, a rebel could usurp the throne and become king. It was not a criticism of lawyers, but rather praise for their role.

 

Accordingly, I can't help but agree that Shakespeare was right about lawyers.

 

OR ... the proposition could have been offered as the best feature imagined of yet for utopia. Here's the next line:

 

JACK CADE

Nay, that I mean to do. Is not this a lamentable thing, that of the skin of an innocent lamb should be made parchment? that parchment, being scribbled o'er, should undo a man? Some say the bee stings: but I say, 'tis the bee's wax; for I did but seal once to a thing, and I was never mine own man since.- How now! who's there?

[rrwwss52]

It's sarcasm. But we agree. The Eagles had it right, "Old Billy was right: let's kill all the lawyers - kill 'em tonight."

 

 

[bluesman]

I am virtually certain that you either don't know or don't understand what Shakespeare wrote. The quote is from Henry VI, Part 2: "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers". The meaning was that without lawyers to uphold law and order and stand in his way, a rebel could usurp the throne and become king. It was not a criticism of lawyers, but rather praise for their role. Accordingly, I can't help but agree that Shakespeare was right about lawyers.

Actually, no one is certain what Shakespeare meant. Another strongly held opinion is that Cade was advocating this to clear the way for the utopian outcome he promised for his revolution.

 

Among the many scholarly works on the subject is an excellent book by a lawyer named Daniel Kornstein called Kill All the Lawyers? Shakespeare's Legal Appeal (originally from Princeton U Press, 1994 - out of print but available used on Amazon for about $10). It's a great read, especially while listening to music.

 

Shakespeare (or whoever really wrote them, if it wasn't WS) isn't very kind to lawyers in any of his works - why would Jack Cade be different? Hamlet, Romeo & Juliet and King Lear all contain derisive lawyer bashing. More than half of his plays contain trial scenes. You have to wonder whom he'd have praised and whom he'd have pilloried, were he an audiophile today...

 

"He who steals my DAC steals trash. But he that filches from me my cables......."

[17629]

LOL, you're back! Took you long enough! At least this time you are not swapping between synonymous terms to create confusion (i.e. BCM/ECU).

 

VCDS, while used by some VW dealers, is not OEM. This is OEM: https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?type=Tools&ItemId=43910013 You can ask Ross Uwe himself.

 

Also, VCDS is a diagnostics software, i.e. code puller etc. It's not the software copied onto the ECU. You had said previously that this software must come from the car manufacturer -- I showed you that you can get such software (for the ECU) from a third party (https://www.goapr.com/).

 

I afraid I no longer know where you are trying to go with this.

 

 

Read my last post. I clearly stated that I wasn't going to argue with you anymore. If you still don't understand, I'm sorry. I've done all I can here. Maybe you should have someone else try and explain it to you. Honestly, I've never been a particularly good teacher. Maybe hearing things from a fresh perspective will help. No hard feelings.

[Jud]

Shakespeare (or whoever really wrote them, if it wasn't WS)

 

I'm very much a Stratfordian. I think the counter-arguments are way elitist.

[JR4321]

Actually, no one is certain what Shakespeare meant. Another strongly held opinion is that Cade was advocating this to clear the way for the utopian outcome he promised for his revolution.

 

Among the many scholarly works on the subject is an excellent book by a lawyer named Daniel Kornstein called Kill All the Lawyers? Shakespeare's Legal Appeal (originally from Princeton U Press, 1994 - out of print but available used on Amazon for about $10). It's a great read, especially while listening to music.

 

Shakespeare (or whoever really wrote them, if it wasn't WS) isn't very kind to lawyers in any of his works - why would Jack Cade be different? Hamlet, Romeo & Juliet and King Lear all contain derisive lawyer bashing. More than half of his plays contain trial scenes. You have to wonder whom he'd have praised and whom he'd have pilloried, were he an audiophile today...

 

"He who steals my DAC steals trash. But he that filches from me my cables......."

 

+++++111111

 

Wow! This is maybe the best post I've ever read here.

[bluesman]

I'm very much a Stratfordian. I think the counter-arguments are way elitist.

Whether Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare I neither know nor care

'cause, source be damned, there's greatness there.

 

• "Better a witty fool, than a foolish wit."
  
• "it will come to pass that every braggart shall be found an ass."
  
• "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
  
• "Some rise by sin, and some by virtue fall."
  
• "God has given you one face, and you make yourself another."
  
• "And nothing is, but what is not." (Could this have been the inspiration for What is Hip?)
  

Whoever wrote these was a cool dude! And it's eerie how well these works anticipated the discussions on our little forum over 400 years ago......