Sonore μRendu

[Yucca06]

If using the Airport output from Audirvana+, would the Microrendu work, choosing the Shairport mode ? The problem is that I don't understand how the Dac will be recognized at the end, as it needs a driver for usb (M2tech based usb card). Or should I install a linux driver for the Microrendu (how ?), to be used with the M2tech based Dac ?

[misterspense]

The uRendu will be seen as an Airplay speaker. I have a SoTM sms-100, and when switched to airplay, I can play music from my ipad, macbook, itunes etc to the sms-100. These players do not 'see' the dac, only the airplay name, so urendu or SoTM-Airplay or something like that. The sonic orbiter is a linux type OS, that doesn't need a driver for most dac's or usb/spdif converters.

[mrvco]

I'm really keen on the idea of the micro rendu to use in 'roonspeakers' mode into my Devialet.

 

It would be very disappointing to think that a Regen type device would be necessary with it though - from the description, surely it's aim would be to output the cleanest signal possible into the DAC directly?

 

I expect that whether a regen is considered "necessary" will be determined by one's own ears.

[hifi_swlon]

I expect that whether a regen is considered "necessary" will be determined by one's own ears.

 

Of course..

 

To my ears, and in my current system, the Regen did nothing audible even with a linear PS, so I removed it to save for future experiments when I have time.

 

But I meant on a theoretical level, what the Regen is claimed to do should surely be absolutely 100% dealt with by something like the micro rendu itself? The notion of plugging multiple boxes back to back here would seem a bit odd on a device that's apparently being engineered to deliver the best output possible and plugged directly into the DAC itself for best possible SI.

[mrvco]

Of course..

 

To my ears, and in my current system, the Regen did nothing audible even with a linear PS, so I removed it to save for future experiments when I have time.

 

But I meant on a theoretical level, what the Regen is claimed to do should surely be absolutely 100% dealt with by something like the micro rendu itself? The notion of plugging multiple boxes back to back here would seem a bit odd on a device that's apparently being engineered to deliver the best output possible and plugged directly into the DAC itself for best possible SI.

 

I should say that I'd expect the uRendu's USB implementation to be in the "little to no difference" category with regards to incorporating a USB regen device.

[Andyman]

Two things...

 

I should say that I'd expect the uRendu's USB implementation to be in the "little to no difference" category with regards to incorporating a USB regen device.

 

I would be very surprised, considering the not too dissimilar form factors of the μrendu and regen and the mutuality of Johnny Swedeboy (written lovingly !) with his 4 layer board thingies, if much of the regen thinking were not incorporated into the μ - thus rendering the regen, in this particular instance, redundant. If not we'll all need to get deeper shelves for our dacs to accommodate the increasing number of piggy-backed devices hanging precariously from our usb inputs.

 

Then...

 

If this device can overcome many of the horrors of computer playback at a reasonable cost - count me in. But I know nothing about networking. If the μrendu is used for my dac's (only) usb input, can I also effectively use it as a speaker output from pc or mac over a network? (I really know nothing about networking!)

 

Thank you,

 

Andy

[Andyman]

Oh yes...

 

...and vive la France!

[firedog]

Two things...

 

 

 

I would be very surprised, considering the not too dissimilar form factors of the μrendu and regen and the mutuality of Johnny Swedeboy (written lovingly !) with his 4 layer board thingies, if much of the regen thinking were not incorporated into the μ - thus rendering the regen, in this particular instance, redundant. If not we'll all need to get deeper shelves for our dacs to accommodate the increasing number of piggy-backed devices hanging precariously from our usb inputs.

 

Then...

 

If this device can overcome many of the horrors of computer playback at a reasonable cost - count me in. But I know nothing about networking. If the μrendu is used for my dac's (only) usb input, can I also effectively use it as a speaker output from pc or mac over a network? (I really know nothing about networking!)

 

Thank you,

 

Andy

 

The idea of the uRendu is that you attach one end to your network (router) and the other USB to your USB input on the DAC. You tell your software/computer that the output is the Rendu/DAC. Whatever you play on your computer will playback via the DAC, just like any other USB source you give your DAC.

[Andyman]

Thanks Firedog. That's disarmingly straightforward.

[ChrisG]

The idea of the uRendu is that you attach one end to your network (router) and the other USB to your USB input on the DAC. You tell your software/computer that the output is the Rendu/DAC. Whatever you play on your computer will playback via the DAC, just like any other USB source you give your DAC.

 

Can you help me understand why the SQ would be better since it still uses USB into the DAC?

[firedog]

Can you help me understand why the SQ would be better since it still uses USB into the DAC?

 

Better than what? Other USB sources?

 

The basic idea is to make a network to USB renderer for audio.

Why use a renderer? Lots of people believe (or hear) that this type of setup gives superior sonic performance to a straight USB connection from a PC, as the network isolates the DAC somewhat from the PC. It also allows the use of a "2 PC" type setup over the network and use of programs such HQP NAA, as well as the freedom to use the network for playback, and not just whatever is hardwired to your DAC.

 

The uRendu is being specifically designed for audio (proprietary board inside), with a minimalist OS that only plays back audio (nothing else) and to be especially low noise, etc. In simple terms, your USB source (uRendu) will supposedly be sonically superior, so your result from your DAC will also be superior.

 

I obviously haven't heard a uRendu, but I'm using a conceptually identical setup with a SOtM SMS-100 taking the place of the uRendu. The SMS-100 is powered by an audiophile PS. Sound is vastly superior to working with straight PC USB to DAC from any PC I've tried, even those especially configured for audio.

 

I can only assume that the uRendu will be superior to my SMS-100. As Jesus at Sonore sold the SMS-100, I don't think he is putting all the effort into the design of the uRendu to make something that won't be a lot better than the SMS-100. The concept is to have one of, if not the best, USB sources for audio on the market.

[Andyman]

Can you help me understand why the SQ would be better since it still uses USB into the DAC?

 

Although Firedog wrote just like any other usb source he was answering my naive networking question so didn't necessarily mean just like any usb source. Most computers are full of badness which will attempt to cross into your dac via your choice of connection and cable and screw up the conversion process. For usb, things such as the aforementioned Regen exist to try and keep this badness at bay. Devices such as the μrendu take a different route - it is effectively the playback computer, designed purely and correctly for audio and likely to to have a whole lot less badness to start with and provide your usb dac with the bestest, cleanest possible signal to convert. We're not talking different bits here, more the sneaky stuff that travels along with the bits (read back in this thread and more John Swenson stuff relating to ground planes and more). What goes into your dac has a huge bearing on what comes out the other end!

[Andyman]

...errm as he's already answered!

[ChrisG]

Although Firedog wrote just like any other usb source he was answering my naive networking question so didn't necessarily mean just like any usb source. Most computers are full of badness which will attempt to cross into your dac via your choice of connection and cable and screw up the conversion process. For usb, things such as the aforementioned Regen exist to try and keep this badness at bay. Devices such as the μrendu take a different route - it is effectively the playback computer, designed purely and correctly for audio and likely to to have a whole lot less badness to start with and provide your usb dac with the bestest, cleanest possible signal to convert. We're not talking different bits here, more the sneaky stuff that travels along with the bits (read back in this thread and more John Swenson stuff relating to ground planes and more). What goes into your dac has a huge bearing on what comes out the other end!

 

I guess I should have clarified my question -- why not avoid the USB input altogether and and go SPDIF like the Signature Series Rendu?

[barrows]

I guess I should have clarified my question -- why not avoid the USB input altogether and and go SPDIF like the Signature Series Rendu?

 

Very good point. Some DACs work better via their SPDIF input because their USB input is not implemented as well as it could be. For such DACs, the Sonore Signature Rendu is going to offer superb performance without any other add-ons or do-dads.

[ChrisG]

Yeah, but no Roon, so deal breaker for me

[mfsoa]

Could we possibly please have a vague, general, we-won't-hold-you-to-it idea of a release date? Are we looking at 6 mo? 12 mo? more? I see this as the next evolution in my setup and my itch wants a scratching.

[Andyman]

I guess I should have clarified my question -- why not avoid the USB input altogether and and go SPDIF like the Signature Series Rendu?

 

Why not indeed. And specifically I would suspect the SSR is one of the very best ways of getting a signal to your dac. But more generally, how on earth do you know if the SPDIF input on your dac is better than usb? How are you going to compare inputs?

 

A little digression.

 

A have a very ill Mac mini (let's not go into how best to resuscitate it - anticipating Apple's finger pointing at aftermarket ssd and 16gb RAM, which worked hunky dorily until Mavericks - that's another story) which when in the rudest of health, reasonably optimised and playing via Audirvana sounded pretty good into my previous Micromega Mydac. But (heretically on here?) my cd player pissed on it. And the SPDIF out from my cd player into the MM was also far superior to the mac but still behind the cd player au naturel.

 

I tried a mkI Metrum Octave a couple of years ago. No usb in, so used the recommended-at-the-time Audiophileo usb to SPDIF converter; vast improvement but still lagged a fair way behind cd player. But now the SPDIF out from cdp intum Metrum was a tie. Ultimate SQ available hadn't improved so I didn't buy it (them).

 

Very recently I did buy a Gungnir MB. Why?...As the Mac is ill I'm using it with a far from optimised windows 10 machine. And via usb it gets very close to my cd player. Yet ironically SPDIF out from cd to Gungnir is now best of all! (And back to your original question, remember that digital out from my cdp - 1996 vintage and still going strong - was an added extra so something like the SSR may be even better. And I hope the uRendu will also surpass it - which is why I'm on this thread in the first place!)

 

So what was the point of all that?

 

Simply that the age old adage remains true. Garbage in garbage out. By all means get yourself a decent dac. But don't expect just to plug it into a computer via a usb cable (or Tosserslink or whatever) and get ultimate SQ. I am veering away from this method - again, it's why I'm on this thread.

 

The convenience of computer audio is marvelous. But having a decent cd player as a frame of reference can be both useful and somewhat sobering.

 

Hic!

 

Andy

[ChrisG]

What's a CD player? ;-)

[Doak]

....Simply that the age old adage remains true. Garbage in garbage out. By all means get yourself a decent dac. But don't expect just to plug it into a computer via a usb cable (or Toslink or whatever) and get ultimate SQ. I am veering away from this method - again, it's why I'm on this thread.

 

The convenience of computer audio is marvelous. But having a decent cd player as a frame of reference can be both useful and somewhat sobering.

 

Hic!

 

Andy

 

Excellent Andy.

This is very good advice on how to keep it all in perspective.

Can be VERY sobering to hear a good CD/transport feeding one's DAC via SPDIF.

Do it and learn.

USB is a (highly?) compromised digital interface.

If you have options, explore them.

[firedog]

USB? Because it enables playback of the most formats/sample rates and is ubiquitous, which makes it compatible with just about everything.

[Andyman]

What's a CD player? ;-)

 

It's a sort of endpoint for a very primitive form of streaming (you actually had to physically carry the data from the server/shop!)

[rickca]

Barrows or Jesus ... using Linux gives you this nice flexibility of output modes like HQPlayer NAA. Why doesn't the SSR use Linux? Can you not achieve as good sound quality with a Linux-based approach?

[barrows]

Yeah, but no Roon, so deal breaker for me

 

Just curious, why do you require Roon? I just do not understand all the hype about Roon, and I have used it in our set up at RMAF.

 

And, a question: would you be willing to use Roon if doing so involved a sonic compromise?

[barrows]

Could we possibly please have a vague, general, we-won't-hold-you-to-it idea of a release date? Are we looking at 6 mo? 12 mo? more? I see this as the next evolution in my setup and my itch wants a scratching.

 

No, any such estimation would be a guess, and hence, not helpful for anyone. Information about the µRendu never should have been leaked to the public in the first place.