HQ Player

[Miska]

5 minutes ago, GMG said:

Is this true in general for most DACs?

 

R2R's and similar ladders primarily.

 

5 minutes ago, GMG said:

I have a Chord Qutest which is specked at 32bits. I have it set to 24bits as I have it connected with an Audio-wise SRC-DX, but would you recommended setting it to 20bits?

 

No, it is SDM DAC and cannot handle PCM natively, but instead all PCM goes through it's DSP. So when using with SRC-DX, set DAC Bits to 24 and use for example TPDF dither or some suitable noise-shaper. This gives best possible material for it's DSP for further processing.

 

[GMG]

7 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

No, it is SDM DAC and cannot handle PCM natively, but instead all PCM goes through it's DSP. So when using with SRC-DX, set DAC Bits to 24 and use for example TPDF dither or some suitable noise-shaper. This gives best possible material for it's DSP for further processing

Oh, I thought it was the other way around 😊

So would it be better to convert all pcm to dsd with HQPlayer before feeding it to the NAA—>SRC-DX—>Qutest ?

[Miska]

50 minutes ago, GMG said:

Oh, I thought it was the other way around 😊

So would it be better to convert all pcm to dsd with HQPlayer before feeding it to the NAA—>SRC-DX—>Qutest ?

 

No, it is better to send PCM to Chord DACs, as they convert DSD to PCM and then back to SDM. So just send the highest possible rate PCM to Chord DACs (705.6/768k).

 

[GMG]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

No, it is better to send PCM to Chord DACs, as they convert DSD to PCM and then back to SDM. So just send the highest possible rate PCM to Chord DACs (705.6/768k).

 

Ok great. 
you also mentioned using TPDF or similar dither. I’m currently using LNS15, is this considered similar?

[Miska]

On 7/30/2021 at 1:04 PM, GMG said:

you also mentioned using TPDF or similar dither. I’m currently using LNS15, is this considered similar?

 

TPDF is basic dither, while LNS15 is dithered noise shaper. Either one is fine, just depends on your preferences.

 

[Peti]

I wonder why I can't see the Sync-L option from the scroll down menu, only the "S" and "M". I run version 4.5.1

 

Can someone please help? Much appreciated!

[ted_b]

1 hour ago, Peti said:

I wonder why I can't see the Sync-L option from the scroll down menu, only the "S" and "M". I run version 4.5.1

 

Can someone please help? Much appreciated!

Cuz that older release is prior to Sinc-L being invented/included.  Sinc-L came with 4.6.0 and later.

[HeeBroG]

Can I someone explain how sinc-Mx is different to sinc M?

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, HeeBroG said:

Can I someone explain how sinc-Mx is different to sinc M?

 

sinc-Mx scales with conversion ratio, just like most other filters too, but unlike sinc-M.

 

sinc-M is always ~1M taps so it's length in time varies depending on output rate. While sinc-Mx is ~1M taps at 705.6/768k rates and thus always about 1.5 seconds long.

 

[Woland]

I'm aiming for a setup where a PC will be able to send data to a Raspberry Pi 4 over USB in exactly the same way it goes to a USB DAC. The Pi4 will then act as a Digital to Digital converter providing a low-jitter, clean, upsampled datastream to the DAC.

 

I have progress, but am challenged by the low-level kernel configuration. In case anyone else has the expertise and would like to give it a try, here are a couple of key links:

 

The most promising way seems to be implementing a UAC2 (USB Audio class 2) kernel driver, described as a 'USB gadget'.

 

This article describes setup of a Pi zero - more recently the Pi 4 offers USB OTG via its charging port.

 https://ceworkbench.wordpress.com/2019/07/21/setting-up-a-composite-ethernet-audio-usb-gadget/

 

These are the configurations for the UAC2 gadget. https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/ABI/testing/configfs-usb-gadget-uac2

 

Using the above, I have been able to get the gadget operational, but haven't been able to get it recognised by HQPlayer.

 

$ aplay -L                                                                                                
null                                                                                                                              
    Discard all samples (playback) or generate zero samples (capture)                                                             
iec958                                                                                                                            
    IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output                                                                                          
default:CARD=sndrpihifiberry                                                                                                      
    snd_rpi_hifiberry_digi, HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro HiFi wm8804-spdif-0                                                               
    Default Audio Device                                                                                                          
sysdefault:CARD=sndrpihifiberry                                                                                                   
    snd_rpi_hifiberry_digi, HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro HiFi wm8804-spdif-0                                                               
    Default Audio Device                                                                                                          
iec958:CARD=sndrpihifiberry,DEV=0                                                                                                 
    snd_rpi_hifiberry_digi, HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro HiFi wm8804-spdif-0                                                               
    IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output                                                                                          
default:CARD=UAC2Gadget                                                                                                           
    UAC2_Gadget, UAC2 PCM                                                                                                         
    Default Audio Device                                                                                                          
sysdefault:CARD=UAC2Gadget                                                                                                        
    UAC2_Gadget, UAC2 PCM                                                                                                         
    Default Audio Device     

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Woland said:

I'm aiming for a setup where a PC will be able to send data to a Raspberry Pi 4 over USB in exactly the same way it goes to a USB DAC. The Pi4 will then act as a Digital to Digital converter providing a low-jitter, clean, upsampled datastream to the DAC.

 

I have progress, but am challenged by the low-level kernel configuration. In case anyone else has the expertise and would like to give it a try, here are a couple of key links:

 

The most promising way seems to be implementing a UAC2 (USB Audio class 2) kernel driver, described as a 'USB gadget'.

 

This article describes setup of a Pi zero - more recently the Pi 4 offers USB OTG via its charging port.

 https://ceworkbench.wordpress.com/2019/07/21/setting-up-a-composite-ethernet-audio-usb-gadget/

 

These are the configurations for the UAC2 gadget. https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/ABI/testing/configfs-usb-gadget-uac2

 

Using the above, I have been able to get the gadget operational, but haven't been able to get it recognised by HQPlayer.

 

$ aplay -L                                                                                                
null                                                                                                                              
    Discard all samples (playback) or generate zero samples (capture)                                                             
iec958                                                                                                                            
    IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output                                                                                          
default:CARD=sndrpihifiberry                                                                                                      
    snd_rpi_hifiberry_digi, HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro HiFi wm8804-spdif-0                                                               
    Default Audio Device                                                                                                          
sysdefault:CARD=sndrpihifiberry                                                                                                   
    snd_rpi_hifiberry_digi, HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro HiFi wm8804-spdif-0                                                               
    Default Audio Device                                                                                                          
iec958:CARD=sndrpihifiberry,DEV=0                                                                                                 
    snd_rpi_hifiberry_digi, HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro HiFi wm8804-spdif-0                                                               
    IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output                                                                                          
default:CARD=UAC2Gadget                                                                                                           
    UAC2_Gadget, UAC2 PCM                                                                                                         
    Default Audio Device                                                                                                          
sysdefault:CARD=UAC2Gadget                                                                                                        
    UAC2_Gadget, UAC2 PCM                                                                                                         
    Default Audio Device     

 

 

You should use "arecord -l" to display audio input devices. And then add that into /etc/hqplayer/hqplayerd.xml as input device. Downside of that method is that automatic rate switching won't work.

 

HQPlayer Embedded has a built-in USB Audio Class 2 support that has automatic rate switching support etc. It could work on the HQPlayer OS image, or not, I have not tested it yet.

 

[Woland]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

You should use "arecord -l" to display audio input devices. And then add that into /etc/hqplayer/hqplayerd.xml as input device.

 

 

Thanks so much! It seems the device is added automatically. But I haven't been able to activate it on hqplayer. Here' s what the log shows when attempting to select it as an input.

 

+ 2021/08/02 12:35:13 Engine running
  2021/08/02 12:35:17 Close previous transport
& 2021/08/02 12:35:17 Set transport (5): USB Audio Class 2
  2021/08/02 12:35:17 	found matching input: USB Audio Class 2
  2021/08/02 12:35:17 Audio transport: rate=0 channels=2 format=auto buffer=100
  2021/08/02 12:35:17 Input SDM packing: 1
+ 2021/08/02 12:35:17 UAC2 input engine initializing...
# 2021/08/02 12:35:17 clReadAudio::Open(): clUAC2Engine::Initialize(): UAC2::Open(): No such file or directory.
& 2021/08/02 12:35:17 Play
# 2021/08/02 12:35:17 clPlayerDaemon::SwitchInput(): clHQPlayerEngine::Play(): Transport == NULL

 

Here's arecord -l

 

**** List of CAPTURE Hardware Devices ****
card 0: sndrpihifiberry [snd_rpi_hifiberry_digi], device 0: HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro HiFi wm8804-spdif-0 [HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro HiFi wm8804-spdif-0]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: UAC2Gadget [UAC2_Gadget], device 0: UAC2 PCM [UAC2 PCM]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0

 

Here's how it successfully plays over USB and out of the HiFiBerry HAT

arecord -f dat -t wav -D plughw:CARD=1,0  | aplay -D hw:0,0

 

[Miska]

51 minutes ago, Woland said:

Thanks so much! It seems the device is added automatically. But I haven't been able to activate it on hqplayer. Here' s what the log shows when attempting to select it as an input.

 

That is different thing than what you were posting about earlier. Yes, the HQPlayer USB Audio Class 2 input is listed by default. But it is not related to ALSA in any shape or form.

 

51 minutes ago, Woland said:

Here's arecord -l

 

**** List of CAPTURE Hardware Devices ****
card 0: sndrpihifiberry [snd_rpi_hifiberry_digi], device 0: HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro HiFi wm8804-spdif-0 [HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro HiFi wm8804-spdif-0]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: UAC2Gadget [UAC2_Gadget], device 0: UAC2 PCM [UAC2 PCM]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0

 

You need to add that to the hqplayerd.xml configuration file as input device.

 

 

[jhoenck]

Hi folks, I have another question that you can possibly answer. If I choose a shaper like NS5 that is made for 8x rates and I feed PCM at like 96k and upsample to 352,8 that is not 8x but rather 3,68x. Is this correct or am I understanding this 8x/16x rates wrong?

[firedog]

47 minutes ago, jhoenck said:

Hi folks, I have another question that you can possibly answer. If I choose a shaper like NS5 that is made for 8x rates and I feed PCM at like 96k and upsample to 352,8 that is not 8x but rather 3,68x. Is this correct or am I understanding this 8x/16x rates wrong?

For PCM, 44.1 and 48 are called 1X

88 and 96 are 2X

176 and 192 are 4X

352 and 384 are 8X

 

So you are upsampling in colloquial terms from 2X to 8X which is "4 times". Obviously mathematically it is 3.68X. If you want an actual "4 times", do 88.2 to 352.8 and 96 to 384.

[Miska]

1 hour ago, jhoenck said:

Hi folks, I have another question that you can possibly answer. If I choose a shaper like NS5 that is made for 8x rates and I feed PCM at like 96k and upsample to 352,8 that is not 8x but rather 3,68x. Is this correct or am I understanding this 8x/16x rates wrong?

 

For noise-shaper selection, source rate or conversion ratio doesn't matter, only output rate. Thus in your case output rate is "8x" or "8fs". For those output rates you can use NS5, NS9 or LNS15 shapers.

 

[jhoenck]

49 minutes ago, firedog said:

For PCM, 44.1 and 48 are called 1X

88 and 96 are 2X

176 and 192 are 4X

352 and 384 are 8X

 

21 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

For noise-shaper selection, source rate or conversion ratio doesn't matter, only output rate. Thus in your case output rate is "8x" or "8fs". For those rates you can use NS5, NS9 or LNS15 shapers.

 

 

Thanks a lot guys. Appreciate your support. So far I prefer NS5 in my system. LNS15 sounds a tad bright to me. Have to a/b with NS9 next.

 

One other question that interests me right now is if I imported a impulse response file in the convolution settings that is 384k and use for example sinc-M which upsamples 44,1k to 352,8 does convolution still work fine with the higher impulse response?

[AudioDoctor]

I am having a strange problem that I have never had before with HQPlayer 4.12 on Ubuntu. When I scan the library to add an album I recently purchased, it is not finding it.

 

Any ideas? Roon is able to see the album. The album is a download from Qobuz.

 

edit: I forgot to add that HQPlayer desktop on my M1 mini found the album.

 

[jcn3]

13 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

I am having a strange problem that I have never had before with HQPlayer 4.12 on Ubuntu. When I scan the library to add an album I recently purchased, it is not finding it.

 

Any ideas? Roon is able to see the album. The album is a download from Qobuz.

 

edit: I forgot to add that HQPlayer desktop on my M1 mini found the album.

 

 

so you're saying that you can play every album in your roon library (whether local or qobuz) through hqplayer to your dac except for one?

[AudioDoctor]

I am having a strange problem that I have never had before with HQPlayer 4.12 on Ubuntu. When I scan the library to add an album I recently purchased, it is not finding it.

 

Any ideas? Roon is able to see the album. The album is a download from Qobuz.

 

 

Nope, using Roon I can play the album just fine through HQPlayer. HQPlayer is not able to see the album when I do a Library scan from within HQPlayer. Even HQPlayer plays the album just fine when I drag and drop it into HQPlayer, however that's a pain considering my machine is remote.

[luisma]

Has anyone noticed or reported an issue playing Sinc-Mx vs Sinc-M? Sinc-Mx makes a weird noise like burning wood crackling noise, Sinc-M doesn't, not a big deal just wondering why?

I know Sinc-Mx taps depends on upsampled content and it is 1m taps at 768 while Sinc-M it is always 1m taps fixed.

 

[camott]

4 minutes ago, luisma said:

Has anyone noticed or reported an issue playing Sinc-Mx vs Sinc-M? Sinc-Mx makes a weird noise like burning wood crackling noise, Sinc-M doesn't, not a big deal just wondering why?

I know Sinc-Mx taps depends on upsampled content and it is 1m taps at 768 while Sinc-M it is always 1m taps fixed.

 

What rate are you upsampling to? at 1536 sinc-mx will do 2M taps I believe. So the buffering requirements are tighter and might result in pops/"crackles" if your connections are not optimal.

[MemoryPlayer]

16 hours ago, luisma said:

Has anyone noticed or reported an issue playing Sinc-Mx vs Sinc-M? Sinc-Mx makes a weird noise like burning wood crackling noise, Sinc-M doesn't, not a big deal just wondering why?

@Miska Why the filters Sinc-L, Sinc-S, Sinc-M and Mx don't upsampling DSD to 44k?

My Diablo DAC/Amp that uses BB1793, can't handle 48k DSD, and I love the sound of these Sinc filters! With 44k, I can use few filters like Ext2 and Ext3, so would be possible extend for the next releases?

[ted_b]

39 minutes ago, MemoryPlayer said:

@Miska Why the filters Sinc-L, Sinc-S, Sinc-M and Mx don't upsampling DSD to 44k?

My Diablo DAC/Amp that uses BB1793, can't handle 48k DSD, and I love the sound of these Sinc filters! With 44k, I can use few filters like Ext2 and Ext3, so would be possible extend for the next releases?

I'm personally a little confused by this question.  Upsampling DSD does NOT use filters, only upsampling PCM (to PCM or DSD).

[MemoryPlayer]

56 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I'm personally a little confused by this question.  Upsampling DSD does NOT use filters, only upsampling PCM (to PCM or DSD).

I can upsample PCM to DSD 44k only with Ext2 or Ext3, but no with any Sinc filter, only to 48k multiples...