HQ Player

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

Recently I am experiencing the very low level of pops in the backgrounds of HQPLAYER playback. It is audible enough to be a bit annoying.  I am using Sotm SMS 200 as NAA, Mac Mini M1 with 16GB to execute HQP.  Anyone can suggest what to do to eliminate such pops.  The network traffic shows the stable information flow without interruption.  I have been using HQP about a year and a half now.  This is the first time I constantly encounter the issue.  

[ted_b]

Has anything (think trivial) changed lately?

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

25 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Has anything (think trivial) changed lately?

Not particularly I can think of.  Should I update the firmwares of the Router?  

[semente]

3 hours ago, Mahler and Bach on Computer said:

Not particularly I can think of.  Should I update the firmwares of the Router?  

 

New fridge, air-conditioning?

[Miska]

6 hours ago, Mahler and Bach on Computer said:

Recently I am experiencing the very low level of pops in the backgrounds of HQPLAYER playback. It is audible enough to be a bit annoying.  I am using Sotm SMS 200 as NAA, Mac Mini M1 with 16GB to execute HQP.  Anyone can suggest what to do to eliminate such pops.  The network traffic shows the stable information flow without interruption.  I have been using HQP about a year and a half now.  This is the first time I constantly encounter the issue.  

 

Usually such pops are lost USB packets which are 125µs long. Sometimes problem is at the USB side, sometimes it is caused by hardware and/or software issues (RPi3 as an example). Sometimes it is more likely to happen if 802.3x ethernet flow control is not becoming active and NAA is on a low power device that cannot keep up with sustained gigabit speeds.

 

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Usually such pops are lost USB packets which are 125µs long. Sometimes problem is at the USB side, sometimes it is caused by hardware and/or software issues (RPi3 as an example). Sometimes it is more likely to happen if 802.3x ethernet flow control is not becoming active and NAA is on a low power device that cannot keep up with sustained gigabit speeds.

 

@Miska, would you mind elaborating the statement of “802.3x Ethernet flow control is not becoming active?”  What can cause this to happen and what to do to address it.  Thank you.  

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

7 hours ago, semente said:

 

New fridge, air-conditioning?

Everything has been there at least five years.  :). Thank you.  

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

12 hours ago, ted_b said:

Has anything (think trivial) changed lately?

 

6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Usually such pops are lost USB packets which are 125µs long. Sometimes problem is at the USB side, sometimes it is caused by hardware and/or software issues (RPi3 as an example). Sometimes it is more likely to happen if 802.3x ethernet flow control is not becoming active and NAA is on a low power device that cannot keep up with sustained gigabit speeds.

 

In recent months, have kept Uptone LPS 1.2 on which is for Sotm SMS 200.  The LPS is very warm.  Maybe it is deterioring?

[Account Closed]

2 hours ago, Mahler and Bach on Computer said:

 

In recent months, have kept Uptone LPS 1.2 on which is for Sotm SMS 200.  The LPS is very warm.  Maybe it is deterioring?

Try a different power supply. If the LPS 1.2 charge supply is the correct voltage, give that a try. The 1.2 does run warm but that alone is not an indication that it is going bad. Also, the 1.2 may be on the edge of its capacity powering the Sotm and if it has deteriorated even slightly it may no longer be able to keep up.

[shahed99]

@Miska I’m using PCM with no upsampling but using TPDF dither. Is it still recommended that I set max volume in HQP to -3dB or can I use 0.0 dB?

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

18 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Usually such pops are lost USB packets which are 125µs long. Sometimes problem is at the USB side, sometimes it is caused by hardware and/or software issues (RPi3 as an example). Sometimes it is more likely to happen if 802.3x ethernet flow control is not becoming active and NAA is on a low power device that cannot keep up with sustained gigabit speeds.

 

 

10 hours ago, bobflood said:

Try a different power supply. If the LPS 1.2 charge supply is the correct voltage, give that a try. The 1.2 does run warm but that alone is not an indication that it is going bad. Also, the 1.2 may be on the edge of its capacity powering the Sotm and if it has deteriorated even slightly it may no longer be able to keep up.

I power cycled Uptone LMS 1.2.  Appears that the pops disappeared.  I have covered three albums so far.  It has been OK.

[ted_b]

It's these kinds of successful troubleshootings (?) that makes this forum so valuable and, for the most part, very generous and friendly.   Nice going folks.  👍

[Miska]

17 hours ago, Mahler and Bach on Computer said:

@Miska, would you mind elaborating the statement of “802.3x Ethernet flow control is not becoming active?”  What can cause this to happen and what to do to address it.  Thank you.  

 

It is feature (aka "pause frames") that is negotiated between two connected ethernet interfaces, based on their advertising of support for the feature. On Linux you can check whether it is active using "ethtool", by default, most Linux ethernet drivers have it enabled:

root@porkkala:~# ethtool -a eno1
Pause parameters for eno1:
Autonegotiate:	on
RX:		on
TX:		on

 

The way it works is that when receiver's hardware packet buffer becomes full, it sends packet to the upstream device "pause sending". And once there's again space in the hardware packet buffer, it sends "resume sending". When this gets propagated through the network, it avoids packet loss and re-sends, making network more efficient at the low level due to having less redundant data traffic.

 

Typical reason for it not being active are

• Some network device involved on the path not supporting the feature and/or not passing the information through
• Use of a smart/managed (L2/L3) switch that is not configured to have the feature enabled

For example some optical transceivers discard the feature. Most dumb/unmanaged switches support the feature at least in form of passing the information through.

 

[Miska]

9 hours ago, shahed99 said:

@Miska I’m using PCM with no upsampling but using TPDF dither. Is it still recommended that I set max volume in HQP to -3dB or can I use 0.0 dB?

 

It is always recommended not to exceed -3 dBFS. Even non-clipped inter-sample overs can go to +3 dB.

 

There is no loss in using -3 dBFS volume setting. Doing 0 dBFS setting has high risk of increasing distortion by at least +20 dB or more.

 

[mfsoa]

Windows Home vs. Pro:

If Windows will be used for Roon/HQplayer to an NAA (currently Ropieee on Allo...), is there an advantage to using Windows Pro?

 

Thanks very much,

-Mike

[R1200CL]

6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

It is always recommended not to exceed -3 dBFS. Even non-clipped inter-sample overs can go to +3 dB.

 

There is no loss in using -3 dBFS volume setting. Doing 0 dBFS setting has high risk of increasing distortion by at least +20 dB or more.

 

This one ?

[R1200CL]

26 minutes ago, mfsoa said:

is there an advantage to using Windows Pro?

Remote Desktop 😀

Run the PC headless. (No screen attached). 

Very useful. You can even use your iPad with full windows interface. 
 

[Account Closed]

53 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

This one ?

Max Volume at -3db as well.

[Miska]

3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

This one ?

 

That is the default volume that is set when HQPlayer Embedded is started, before some remote control application has touched it.

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, mfsoa said:

Windows Home vs. Pro:

If Windows will be used for Roon/HQplayer to an NAA (currently Ropieee on Allo...), is there an advantage to using Windows Pro?

 

It shouldn't make a difference. There's more difference between Pro and For Workstations. Since WIndows for Workstations has "Ultimate Performance" power profile lacking from Pro. Although if you search around, you can find hacks to put that feature into Pro.

 

The other difference between Pro and For Workstations is that latter has wider support for multi-socket systems.

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Remote Desktop 😀

Run the PC headless. (No screen attached). 

Very useful. You can even use your iPad with full windows interface. 
 

 

I'm using TightVNC. I find is less troublesome than Remote Desktop, which is attempting to screw up WASAPI functionality - luckily it doesn't understand about ASIO.

 

To deal with headless Windows systems I also use EDID Spoofer HDMI -dongle. Which behaves like you'd have a monitor of certain resolution (I use 1080p dongles) attached, while you actually have none.

 

Of course none of such trickery is needed if you use Linux systems.

 

[NoNaim]

I’ve been using HQPDControl v4 ( App Store) to control my headless Mac mini M1. Easy to select music and change settings/ filters etc from my iPhone. No need for VNC etc.

 

The M1 so far has been superb as a headless HQPlayer.

 

 

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

That is the default volume that is set when HQPlayer Embedded is started, before some remote control application has touched it.

 

Now it’s correct then ?

[Miska]

9 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Now it’s correct then ?

 

Well, you can leave max volume at 0 or -3 dBFS. But in any case you should define startup volume as -3 dBFS. Min/max just affects the range you can set from remote control applications (like HQPlayer Client, HQPDcontrol or Roon). Having max set to -3 dBFS ensures that you cannot accidentally turn it higher.

 

If you don't want to have volume control in first place, you can use the "Fixed volume" setting for -3 dBFS.

 

[R1200CL]

17 hours ago, Miska said:

 

It is always recommended not to exceed -3 dBFS. Even non-clipped inter-sample overs can go to +3 dB.

 

There is no loss in using -3 dBFS volume setting. Doing 0 dBFS setting has high risk of increasing distortion by at least +20 dB or more.

 

Can you show which of the 3 possible settings this applies to ?

I assume the last possibility, which is to enable the fixed volume setting. 
 

(In my case the preamp is doing volume control).