Iving Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 26 minutes ago, hopkins said: But this is not what I was expecting here. I hear you! Jazz not my bag really - unless upbeat and pre-War such as Boogie Woogie/Dixie. I shouldn't have intruded :-) Link to comment
smallpond Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 Pretty great album Chris. Enjoying it now. I love her voice which reminds me a bit of Buika as well as Simone and Yola. Powerful emotive singing with a delicious voice and recording. Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Iving said: Jazz not my bag really - unless Dixie. I shouldn't have intruded :-) Perhaps I should not have either. Not hung up on categories, btw, it's all music. Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 4 hours ago, hopkins said: Hope its ok to give a more "nuanced" appreciation of this album. Her singing is really not my cup of tea ! It sounds "strained", and everything is "over sung". This type of singing is unfortunately popular nowadays (see, for example, Cecile McLorin Salvant). Every track is an opportunity for the singer to demonstrate her prowess, with completely unnecessary shifts in octaves from one note to the other, that really don't add anything and do not convey any real "emotion". The Bandcamp notes state: "Reflecting influences as varied as Billie Holiday, Gladys Knight, Tina Turner and Chaka Khan...". Really ? The results are very very far from the performance of any of those singers. Moreover, the music is not terribly exciting... All this seems like a very well packaged product, but without much substance behind all the hype. We can't all like the same things 😁 After the rave reviews here, I tried listening, stopped after the beginning of the third song... Too imitative, sometimes down to the details, and exaggerated at the same time. Link to comment
PeterG Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 4 hours ago, hopkins said: Hope its ok to give a more "nuanced" appreciation of this album. Her singing is really not my cup of tea ! It sounds "strained", and everything is "over sung". This type of singing is unfortunately popular nowadays (see, for example, Cecile McLorin Salvant). Every track is an opportunity for the singer to demonstrate her prowess, with completely unnecessary shifts in octaves from one note to the other, that really don't add anything and do not convey any real "emotion". The Bandcamp notes state: "Reflecting influences as varied as Billie Holiday, Gladys Knight, Tina Turner and Chaka Khan...". Really ? The results are very very far from the performance of any of those singers. Moreover, the music is not terribly exciting... All this seems like a very well packaged product, but without much substance behind all the hype. We can't all like the same things 😁 Although, with all due respect, this is not really a nuanced critique--it's just a pan with no recognition of it's strengths. When you say unfortunately "popular" like Cecile McLorin Salvant, you confuse me--there is no one else on the planet who sings like Cecile. "Unnecessary"? It's art--it's all unnecessary. But you are right that it's showing off--in the same way that all memorable lead musicians show off. It's just that almost none of them can jump octaves with their voices as if they were piano keys. Perfectly fine for this to not be your cup of tea. But there's no reason to disparage her or the world's greatest living jazz singer Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 12 minutes ago, PeterG said: When you say unfortunately "popular" like Cecile McLorin Salvant, you confuse me--there is no one else on the planet who sings like Cecile I am confused as well - by McLorin's popularity and critical acclaim. I guess those who cannot stand her keep quiet? Like audio reviewers who only review equipment they like 🤣 I personally appreciate reviewers who are not afraid to give negative opinions... Link to comment
saturdayboy Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 1 hour ago, hopkins said: No, I got the correct one (https://iamladyblackbird.bandcamp.com/album/black-acid-soul) but my description is maybe a little harsh. Her vocals are less exaggerated on some tracks than others. Ex: I find "It's not that easy" particularly irritating. "Lost and looking" is similar (and also simply applying a "formula"). As for the music, yes I do find it a little "dull", not only taking each track individually, but also as a whole, there is not much variety in the whole album, it is all pretty much the same tempo. Taking one track as an example - "Lost and Looking" - it is musically very poor (note that the following track is a carbon copy of that one). A few bass notes behind the singing, and then a pretty uninspired piano solo. Once again, I'm not sure what they mean by this on Bandcamp - "music that transcends the jazz scene through which the LA-based artist is rooted..." - but it does not make me want to explore the LA jazz scene 😀 As for the lyrics, I find them very "banal" as well: I'm lost and lookin' for my baby Wonder where my baby can be found Lost and lookin' for my baby Lord know my baby ain't around So, I'm lost and lookin' for my baby Wonder where my baby can be found Lost and searchin' for my baby Lord knows my baby ain't around Cry for my baby, cryin' all alone Callin' for you, come home, come home I'm lost and callin' for my baby Baby, won't you please come home, home, home? Lost and callin' for my baby I need you 'cause I'm all alone What about the lyrics to "I'tll Never Happen Again" ? I remember Our first affair All the pain Always rain Around my eyes It'll never happen again It'll never happen again ... Yawn. Count me out 😝 “Lost and Looking” is by the great Sam Cooke from his Night Beat album. One of the best songs, from probably the best album of one of America’s best writer of pop songs of all time. Josh Mound 1 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, saturdayboy said: “Lost and Looking” is by the great Sam Cooke from his Night Beat album. One of the best songs, from probably the best album of one of America’s best writer of pop songs of all time. Hey, I did mention that I appreciate R&B. Not enough to know that this was a Sam Cook song! Thanks for pointing it out and correcting me. I'm sure Sam Cook's version was more inspired. Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 12 minutes ago, PeterG said: When you say unfortunately "popular" like Cecile McLorin Salvant, you confuse me--there is no one else on the planet who sings like Cecile. While I'll admit she has an amazing voice... how she uses it and how the music is performed are not to my liking. I only say this to highlight the fact that which artist or music someone likes is 100% subjective and none are better or worse. There are people who actually like Nickelback... As hard as that is for me to comprehend. No electron left behind. Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted September 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: There are people who actually like Nickelback... As hard as that is for me to comprehend. You've also got people who listen to Diana Krall... 👺 botrytis and AudioDoctor 2 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
Popular Post Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, kumakuma said: You've also got people who listen to Diana Krall... 👺 And Patricia Barber 🤔 OK, I'm really being an ass here so will stop before it goes too far. Back to audio equipment... botrytis, MikeJazz and kumakuma 3 Link to comment
PeterG Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: While I'll admit she has an amazing voice... how she uses it and how the music is performed are not to my liking. I only say this to highlight the fact that which artist or music someone likes is 100% subjective and none are better or worse. There are people who actually like Nickelback... As hard as that is for me to comprehend. This is a "nuanced" review of Cecile. Cheers! But I disagree that "none are better or worse". You've noted that Cecile is far more skilled that most...and that Nickelback are far less Link to comment
Popular Post Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2021 33 minutes ago, PeterG said: This is a "nuanced" review of Cecile. Cheers! But I disagree that "none are better or worse". You've noted that Cecile is far more skilled that most...and that Nickelback are far less Sorry, one last post to clarify things. It is easy to confuse technique with artistry. I'm not saying Salvant does not have technique! Here's a glaring contemporary example: Lady Gaga and the great Tony Bennett. I'm sure a lot of people consider Lady Gaga to be a good singer, but she is horrible in this version of "Cheek to Cheek" and destroys the song with her operatic delivery and lack of "swing". It is comical, but in fact sad to see that in his old age Bennett does not have the lucidity to avoid being involved in this. However much I like Lady Gaga, she should back off and show more respect.. fas42 and Mayfair 2 Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted September 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2021 59 minutes ago, hopkins said: Sorry, one last post to clarify things. It is easy to confuse technique with artistry. I'm not saying Salvant does not have technique! Here's a glaring contemporary example: Lady Gaga and the great Tony Bennett. I'm sure a lot of people consider Lady Gaga to be a good singer, but she is horrible in this version of "Cheek to Cheek" and destroys the song with her operatic delivery and lack of "swing". It is comical, but in fact sad to see that in his old age Bennett does not have the lucidity to avoid being involved in this. However much I like Lady Gaga, she should back off and show more respect.. Bennett doesn't have much of his voice left, but he clearly can still swing. Gaga,not so much. She can sing, but doesn't know how to sing this. She shouldn't be singing this material. It's ironic, as the band can swing quite nicely. Mayfair and MarkusBarkus 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
PeterG Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 50 minutes ago, hopkins said: Sorry, one last post to clarify things. It is easy to confuse technique with artistry. I'm not saying Salvant does not have technique! Here's a glaring contemporary example: Lady Gaga and the great Tony Bennett. I'm sure a lot of people consider Lady Gaga to be a good singer, but she is horrible in this version of "Cheek to Cheek" and destroys the song with her operatic delivery and lack of "swing". It is comical, but in fact sad to see that in his old age Bennett does not have the lucidity to avoid being involved in this. However much I like Lady Gaga, she should back off and show more respect.. Cecile has clear influences, such as Ella, but no one else doing what she does, so it baffles me that you could suggest she's not an artist, even if you do not like her. Baffled again on why you would reference Tony and Gaga--both have wonderful style, but I have never thought of either for great artistry or technique. Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 1 hour ago, PeterG said: Cecile has clear influences, such as Ella, but no one else doing what she does, so it baffles me that you could suggest she's not an artist, even if you do not like her. Technique is not sufficient, and if you do have outstanding abilities you should use them appropriately. Take her interpretation of "what a little moonlight can do", which is a massacre, especially when you've heard Billie Holiday's interpretation, because Salvent sings this joyous little melody like she is being tortured. More is less in this case. Her singing is absurd. She probably heard Sarah Vaughan singing this, for example: But Sarah Vaughan, who possessed incredible technique, did not sing like this TO EVERY SONG! Whereas Salvent (a very pale copy of S.Vaughan) does because that's the only thing she knows how to do, and she thinks it's really meaningful. Sad to see that jazz has become so sterile that such uninspired interpreters can get so much praise. Here's a reminder of how Billie Holiday revolutionized singing with that cute little song (among others of course) : Mayfair 1 Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 2 hours ago, PeterG said: But I disagree that "none are better or worse". You've noted that Cecile is far more skilled that most...and that Nickelback are far less But, that's because it's only my opinion. I know someone who would vehemently disagree with me and think Nickelback is far superior. That was my point. The Computer Audiophile 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 2 hours ago, kumakuma said: You've also got people who listen to Diana Krall... 👺 We hate those people... ;-) kumakuma 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 6, 2021 Author Share Posted September 6, 2021 57 minutes ago, hopkins said: Technique is not sufficient, and if you do have outstanding abilities you should use them appropriately. It’s art, there’s no such thing as appropriate. AudioDoctor and masch 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
jimx1169 Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 I'm enjoying it, but it's likely the most bass-heavy recording in my collection. I had to turn the subwoofer completely off to listen to it at any kind of volume. This is from the Qobuz version I downloaded this afternoon. Link to comment
Jud Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 4 hours ago, AudioDoctor said: While I'll admit she has an amazing voice... how she uses it and how the music is performed are not to my liking. Saw her live. Great fun, enjoyed it. So I'm among her fans (but of course don't mind if anyone else isn't). 🙂 AudioDoctor 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 1 hour ago, jimx1169 said: I'm enjoying it, but it's likely the most bass-heavy recording in my collection. I had to turn the subwoofer completely off to listen to it at any kind of volume. This is from the Qobuz version I downloaded this afternoon. I love the bass - I think the playing is very tasteful. Heh, oh well.... AudioDoctor 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
shum3s Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said: It’s art, there’s no such thing as appropriate. So Chris are you saying there is no such thing as “bad art” or “bad technique”? Everything is subjective? C.A.P. Pipeline, windows pro 10 > Roon > SOtM USB > Keces power supply > HDplex power supply > 4x2 HD Mini DSP > Ayre DSD QB-9 > Naim CDX > ModWright 9 S.E. Preamp > A21 Parasound Amplifier > Magnepan .7 > Augie's Dipole sub, ML sub, DIY sub > Dedicated room with acoustical treatment. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 7, 2021 Author Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 hour ago, shum3s said: So Chris are you saying there is no such thing as “bad art” or “bad technique”? Everything is subjective? Absolutely 100% Jud 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post PeterG Posted September 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2021 3 hours ago, hopkins said: Technique is not sufficient, and if you do have outstanding abilities you should use them appropriately. Continuing on Chris's point--you seem to have a plain vanilla view of art where everything is homogenized or standardized. If someone is not Billie, or Ella, or Gladys, they are nothing. Both of these things deeply inconsistent with how most thoughtful people view art and music. There are multiple ways to sing and many great songs can be sung with either joy or pain, anger or sadness....As an example, I recommend Dylan's More Blood, More Tracks for the amazing original versions of Blood on the Tracks. Also, just about anything of the past 10 years by Bettye Lavette Qhwoeprktiyns and The Computer Audiophile 1 1 Link to comment
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