The DXE-ISO-PLUS filter thread for various network, cable experiments

[TwinPeak]

3 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Cool, the metal is just clipped on, rather than crimped on. IIRC, the shield cable is tucked under that metal shell. Easy done 😃. The DXE work very well with the EtherRegen A side, but not so good on the B side.

I havn't heard the differences between shielded and unshielded, I just followed an advice. And yes, I have tried the DXE-filters directly onto ER A-side. Now I have an opticalModule in front of #1 ER 😇

Tom

[One and a half]

15 minutes ago, TwinPeak said:

I havn't heard the differences between shielded and unshielded, I just followed an advice. And yes, I have tried the DXE-filters directly onto ER A-side. Now I have an opticalModule in front of #1 ER 😇

Tom

For the major run of cable, say over 1m, shielded cable imparts a very rough sound, the distinction of mids and treble become blurred. Tried a few times, even running a cable in parallel to the CAT but no good. Might see about the JSSG from Ghent.

 

[TwinPeak]

19 minutes ago, One and a half said:

For the major run of cable, say over 1m, shielded cable imparts a very rough sound, the distinction of mids and treble become blurred. Tried a few times, even running a cable in parallel to the CAT but no good. Might see about the JSSG from Ghent.

 

I have no idea what is what inside a cable, which has been expensive over the years. I have good ears, I can fix a Mac inside, and an advanced racing bicycle - but when it comes to understanding power, grounding and such, I'm hopeless 😂

[Meridimac]

4 hours ago, One and a half said:

The DXE work very well with the EtherRegen A side, but not so good on the B side.

Agreed. They can compromise 3D imaging, such as the ability to “see” the piano keyboard from left to right on good recordings like Stefano Bollani’s excellent Stone In The Water.

 

For a fun test of soundstage presentation, check out Yosi Horikawa’s track Bubbles from the album Wanderings, which sends bouncing balls all around you if the imaging is right. DXE must constrict the “leading edge” of TCP packets, as described by the GigaFOIL people, which affects midrange and treble to blur the sound:

 

https://www.djmelectronics.com/gigafoilv4-inline-ethernet-filter.html

[Meridimac]

4 hours ago, Meridimac said:

…as described by the GigaFOIL people:

As a member of the DJM Electronics FOIL™ brand Ethernet filters, the GigaFOILv3-EMP™ utilizes patented technology that provides 100dB performance from 10kHz to 10GHz and higher. Standard signal line filters rely on capacitors and inductors to eliminate unwanted RF signals. However, these types of filters often eliminate the high frequencies that make up the sharp edges of high speed digital square wave signals thereby degrading the integrity of the signal. In order to avoid this side effect, it is necessary for standard signal line filters to have extended passbands that allow the higher frequencies to pass unimpeded. Even the best standard signal line filters offer only 70dB from 50MHz to 10GHz and will only work with 10Base-T. There are no Fast Ethernet (100Base-TX) or Gigabit Ethernet (1000Base-T) standard signal line filters available on the market. Also, it is important to note that standard signal line filters do not differentiate between Ethernet signals and undesirable signals. They act like a "hole" in the shielded enclosure to all signals - good and bad - within the passband. 

[bobfa]

On 5/25/2021 at 5:11 AM, One and a half said:

In any case, the DX-ISO-Plus is an inexpensive method, yet yields high value of return. 

 

I just installed a set of the ISO-Plus devices between my network switch and the main stereo.  I am using the supplied jumpers for now.  The 40ft (ca. 12 m) or so network cable to the Living Room is bog-standard CAT 5.  The uplift in SQ is OMFG for the price.

 

 

.

 

 

[bobfa]

[Gr8tful]

Interesting, this device before etherregen offered up gains in dynamics. Percussion is now percussive, startling so. Bass is tastier,more texture and tone, deeper. RFI is the enemy.

[Michael Christ]

On 5/25/2021 at 12:11 PM, One and a half said:

Following on from the EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments, the topic of the DX Engineering filters got a bit crowded and veered off the main topic, so for @roman410 and @Superdad, here is the thread for dedicated application, experiments and findings.

 

Yes, the the DX-ISO-PLUS is a pair of filters using a back to back RJ45 Halo HFJ11-1G46E  with filters and caps, that were mainly intended for Ham radio operations to keep noise from Ethernet lines out of equipment. Each pair lists for USD49.99 and depending where they are in the chain to the audio network end point can make a difference to the noise reduction in that line. The DX-ISO-PLUS works very well with the EtherRegen, and is a complementary device.

 

So far known is that filters installed in the line direct from the router -> ER can gain the highest benefit right away, with filters added in between the router, a music server and an end point will also work very well.

 

The short cables supplied with the DX can be used as is, other users report that replacing these with standard plastic UTP cables is a subtle change for the better, it's a matter of experiment which one works well. Using STP anywhere in the chain was not good from my experience with the Etheregen, and the same is similar with the DX.

 

In any case, the DX-ISO-Plus is an inexpensive method, yet yields high value of return. 

 

As far as SQ is concerned:

 

Noise floor is lower, accenting smaller details

Soundstage: depth especially improves

Positioning of instruments and vocals is easily distinguished

All without tonality differences

 

Hi, please let me ask about the best position of the devices?

 

i thought best would be immediately after the router, and then before the first switch as indicated by the manual.

 

Do I understand correctly whether two devices have to be installed within one connection? One after and one before?

 

or is it possible to insert only one device for one line?

 

thx, Michael

[Michael Christ]

On 10/24/2021 at 11:54 AM, One and a half said:

For the major run of cable, say over 1m, shielded cable imparts a very rough sound, the distinction of mids and treble become blurred. Tried a few times, even running a cable in parallel to the CAT but no good. Might see about the JSSG from Ghent.

 

Hi. Thx for your very helpfully explanations. May I ask whether you have two devices between router (router —> dx —> cat6 —> dx —> server, as described in the manual) and switch, or are you using only one Ethernet Ed filtering device between two components (. (router —> dx —> cat6 —> server). Thx so much!

michael

[PYP]

2 hours ago, Michael Christ said:

Hi. Thx for your very helpfully explanations. May I ask whether you have two devices between router (router —> dx —> cat6 —> dx —> server, as described in the manual) and switch, or are you using only one

just one opinion:  I tried one after the router and didn't hear much of a difference, then added another one before the etherREGEN (following the manual) and the difference was significant.    A few other folks here also use the filters this way.  Of course, every system is different and experimenting with your own setup is the way to find out.   No harm done.  

 

After you insert the filters, you will want to wait a few days to hear the full effect (good, bad or no difference).  In my setup, the short cat cables that were included with the filters didn't sound very good and I use inexpensive mono price cables that have plastic connectors, not metal ones (which usually have the ground attached, I believe).   

[One and a half]

@Michael Christ, if you buy the 4 pack, then it's possible to add the filters in the chain from the router onwards. Like @PYP mentioned, there is a difference between UTP and the STP cables supplied with the DX-Plus, with STP smearing the image in comparison. It is not necessary to use uber-priced cables as most of these are shielded, cause reverse improvement and are too long. 

Each system is different, depending on where the noise flows, but effective close to the music server and the endpoint.

 

You always need to use a pair of filters, in the same run, this is how the noise is reduced. Router —> dx —> cat6 —> dx —> server, is correct. One is to kill garbage from the source, eg router, the other one to filter noise due to induction in the UTP cable from other AC sources. I use CAT5e, and still obtain significant improvement, if you have CAT6 UTP, then please use it, no problem,

[Rsbrsvp]

I have been using the DX's on and off for several months with the ER and OM.

 

I hear no difference in detail.

I hear more transparency, larger soundstage.  

 

I also hear a tonal shift to brighter- stress is more on treble frequencies and less on bass.  Also, punch, and incisiveness seem softened a bit.-  I Think just could be a perception due to the focus moving to the higher frequencies.

 

After months of debating the positive and negative- I am going without the DX as I prefer a darker sound with more emphasis on the base.  The perceived tonal shift does not find favor in my eyes...

 

FOr those who prefer the brighter more open sound- DX is the way to go...

 

 

[Michael Christ]

On 12/31/2021 at 1:12 AM, PYP said:

just one opinion:  I tried one after the router and didn't hear much of a difference, then added another one before the etherREGEN (following the manual) and the difference was significant.    A few other folks here also use the filters this way.  Of course, every system is different and experimenting with your own setup is the way to find out.   No harm done.  

 

After you insert the filters, you will want to wait a few days to hear the full effect (good, bad or no difference).  In my setup, the short cat cables that were included with the filters didn't sound very good and I use inexpensive mono price cables that have plastic connectors, not metal ones (which usually have the ground attached, I believe).   

Thx so much! Happy new year!

[Michael Christ]

On 12/31/2021 at 2:38 AM, One and a half said:

@Michael Christ, if you buy the 4 pack, then it's possible to add the filters in the chain from the router onwards. Like @PYP mentioned, there is a difference between UTP and the STP cables supplied with the DX-Plus, with STP smearing the image in comparison. It is not necessary to use uber-priced cables as most of these are shielded, cause reverse improvement and are too long. 

Each system is different, depending on where the noise flows, but effective close to the music server and the endpoint.

 

You always need to use a pair of filters, in the same run, this is how the noise is reduced. Router —> dx —> cat6 —> dx —> server, is correct. One is to kill garbage from the source, eg router, the other one to filter noise due to induction in the UTP cable from other AC sources. I use CAT5e, and still obtain significant improvement, if you have CAT6 UTP, then please use it, no problem,

Thx so much! Appreciate your support! Happy New Year!

[Michael Christ]

21 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I have been using the DX's on and off for several months with the ER and OM.

 

I hear no difference in detail.

I hear more transparency, larger soundstage.  

 

I also hear a tonal shift to brighter- stress is more on treble frequencies and less on bass.  Also, punch, and incisiveness seem softened a bit.-  I Think just could be a perception due to the focus moving to the higher frequencies.

 

After months of debating the positive and negative- I am going without the DX as I prefer a darker sound with more emphasis on the base.  The perceived tonal shift does not find favor in my eyes...

 

FOr those who prefer the brighter more open sound- DX is the way to go...

 

 

Thx so much! Happy New Year and easy listening! 

[Michael Christ]

Please let me ask a question to @One and a half: have you already made some experiences with DX in a hybride network combining optic fibers and usuall copper connections (Cat 5 or 6). If yes, where have you located the dx filters? Thx again!

[One and a half]

3 hours ago, Michael Christ said:

Please let me ask a question to @One and a half: have you already made some experiences with DX in a hybride network combining optic fibers and usuall copper connections (Cat 5 or 6). If yes, where have you located the dx filters? Thx again!

Ok, the detailed config is in the AS profile, the link is in my signature, and Happy New Years!

[Egill23]

I bought 4 DX's and didn't feel they made much difference in my system. I  can't say that I critically evaluated them, but since the effect for me is small at best I don't think I'll bother. I have a NAS (with music and squeezecenter) -- Router -- Optical Module then 15 m optical cable to Etherregen and then a Allo Digione signature. I tried using them from wall internet socket to router, from NAS to router and from router to Optical module. Those distances are all small, around a meter and I use the Belkin cables with floating shield from Designacable.

 

I gave 2 to my brother who has around 20 m of cat 5 cable from his computer (with the Logitech squeezecenter) to the router, but he said he couldn't hear any difference. I think their effectiveness depends on how polluted the signal is, maybe people with coaxial cabled internet benifits the most?

[PYP]

4 minutes ago, Egill23 said:

I bought 4 DX's and didn't feel they made much difference in my system. I think their effectiveness depends on how polluted the signal is, maybe people with coaxial cabled internet benifits the most?

I use 2, which works well, and assume you are correct that they work best for polluted signals.  My setup has a long run of copper ethernet that is unshielded and goes through walls and above the ceiling, etc.  That is convenient, but increases the chances of crossing power lines, being near light fixtures, etc.   I assume for short-runs, especially shielded cable, they would make little or no difference.  But that is just an assumption.  

[WuBai]

Just ordered two of these units and had a chance to open them up.  There was still a lot of uncleaned flux on my unit.  Also, I was expecting to see some sort of filter but instead what you see is what you get.  Strangely enough, it does work to bring forth a lot of missing detail and resolution, but for me I lost some musicality.  Meaning, the bass was tighter with the DXE but the notes being so tightly defined made them feel like distant and distinct little instances with zero total interaction.  All music felt extremely precise and each instrument and vocalist was its its own little bubble, like each person was recorded independently and then put together in post.  It didn't feel like multiple people in a room playing in harmony.  Took these units out, which again shouldn't make any difference because, well, just look at them, and now all of a sudden everything got softer and rounder and slightly blurrier.  This sounds like a bad thing, but actually the slight bleeding of the bass and the instruments gave everything a sense of togetherness and presence again.  I guess another way of putting it, since I'm already knee deep is that listening with the DXE is like being out at night with zero percent humidity in the air, clear as hell but also dry as hell.  I gave them a shot, but not for me.  I'll still keep them for further experimentation down the line, just thought I'd share my findings.  Thanks to the OP for starting this discussion, wouldn't have know about them otherwise and it was worth the purchase just to learn and experiment with.

 

[Zauurx]

Nothing but 2 sockets with broken insulation... like a simple Cat5 or Cat6 without shielding ?

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, Zauurx said:

Nothing but 2 sockets with broken insulation... like a simple Cat5 or Cat6 without shielding ?

No, those “sockets” each contain multiple tiny transformer cores. Someone upthread the datasheet was posted for those “mag-jack” modules.

[One and a half]

8 hours ago, Superdad said:

No, those “sockets” each contain multiple tiny transformer cores. Someone upthread the datasheet was posted for those “mag-jack” modules.

Yes, that's right each ethernet pair has a differential T network of inductance and capacitance.

[One and a half]

23 hours ago, WuBai said:

Just ordered two of these units and had a chance to open them up.  There was still a lot of uncleaned flux on my unit.  Also, I was expecting to see some sort of filter but instead what you see is what you get.  Strangely enough, it does work to bring forth a lot of missing detail and resolution, but for me I lost some musicality.  Meaning, the bass was tighter with the DXE but the notes being so tightly defined made them feel like distant and distinct little instances with zero total interaction.  All music felt extremely precise and each instrument and vocalist was its its own little bubble, like each person was recorded independently and then put together in post.  It didn't feel like multiple people in a room playing in harmony.  Took these units out, which again shouldn't make any difference because, well, just look at them, and now all of a sudden everything got softer and rounder and slightly blurrier.  This sounds like a bad thing, but actually the slight bleeding of the bass and the instruments gave everything a sense of togetherness and presence again.  I guess another way of putting it, since I'm already knee deep is that listening with the DXE is like being out at night with zero percent humidity in the air, clear as hell but also dry as hell.  I gave them a shot, but not for me.  I'll still keep them for further experimentation down the line, just thought I'd share my findings.  Thanks to the OP for starting this discussion, wouldn't have know about them otherwise and it was worth the purchase just to learn and experiment with.

 

Thanks for the impressions, can I ask where the DX were fitted in the chain?