The DXE-ISO-PLUS filter thread for various network, cable experiments

[WuBai]

5 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Thanks for the impressions, can I ask where the DX were fitted in the chain? 

Sure thing, but just note that my system is far from ideal here.  In my office where I have my computer, I have a small network switch (nothing special) where I connect my laptop, NAS as well as RPI4 music server.  This switch is connected directly to my main router that provides Wifi to other nodes around the house.  In the living room I have my music setup and I have an Asus AC-1900 as an access point and I hardwire to my Allo USBridge.  While I am technically running the Allo USBridge client side player as 'ethernet' much of the run is wifi due to circimstances.

 

I first tried one filter directly at my main router and another directly at my office switch, on the router side.  I felt the noise was extremely sharp and unnatural this way.  All life was sucked out of it, very little bass and was just shrill.  I took both of them out and then installed only one between my RPI4 music server and the switch.  This was a lot better, the shrillness went away and I just got a lot more resolution.  I then took the other one and went to the living room and placed it between the AC-1900 and the Allo USBridge.  Once again, this was much better than the first position and really gave things a lot of resolution.  The only thing is, things felt digital and filtered.  There was a quietness, but something was just off about it.  My mind had to work too much when I was listening, like I was constantly in analyzing mode.  

 

But truth be told, what I could have been hearing is my actual system and that lack of life and digital nature is exactly what my system may sound like once you rip away all distortion and junk.  But this was the first time ever where I actually went back on sound quality from a subjective perspective.  Meaning, I know that with the DX it was more accurate and clear and that I am consciously choosing to go back to something blurrier because it just sounds better to me.  I thought I was a resolution at all cost type of person, but evidently not.  

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

A couple of months ago, for some activities to test a streaming-to-HQPLAYER interface, I was forced to switched from a relative expensive router, ASUS AX5400 to a more economical one, TPLink 1750.  This change caused some significant reduction in sound quality, mainly on soundstage size and resolution.  The Digital chain configuration is NAS->Extender•••>Router->switch->Mac Mini M1->EtherRegen Switch ->SoTM NAA->DAC.  The NAA and Mac Mini were connected in a Bridged Mode, something I personally found very important to SQ for my system.  It should be note that between Mac Mini M1 and EtherRegen, a pair of DXE-ISO-PLUS was used, so was between the switch and Mac Mini M1.  I only had two pairs of DXE-ISO-PLUS back to then.  But the finding about the impact of router variations really caught my attention since it was so far away from Mac Mini, and more importantly, all the files downloaded from NAS were temporarily reprocessed and stored in MacMini before being fed to HQPLAYER and to NAA.  So the router is doing nothing except indirectly regulate the information traffic for the HQP Playback.  With this learning, I recently purchased another pair of DXE-ISO-PLUS, inserting it between the router (of course, the ASUS AX5400) and the switch.  The result is even a richer and denser information, with better articulation at the peak of large scale complex orchestra music, to me always the most challenge part of classical music playbacks.  

 

I also noticed a very important details regarding the implementation of adding DXE-ISO-PLUS, which can be obvious for most of us.  This is that the alignment of both units of a pair should be respected.  Ideally, all the pairs used should align in one direction.  I noticed the improvement of lack of constrains in sounds when the alignment is respected.  This alignment is implicitly represented in the attached instruction of DXE-ISO-PLUS shipment.

[Mike Rubin]

DX Engineering says these are intended for use with CAT 5, 6, and 6A.

 

Have any of you who are impressed with these used them with CAT 8 cabling?  One of you mentioned some synergy with Sablon cables, which, I believe, are CAT 8, but I am not certain about that. (Sablon’s website says they use CAT 8 connectors, but don’t mention the cable topography otherwise.)

 

 I ask because I use CAT 8 from my NUC and from my wall plate to my ER side B. (I use fiber from side A.) Not wedded to CAT 8 but the cables I use seem decent and I don’t want to replace them just to try these unless others have had good experiences with them.

[Rsbrsvp]

Ha anyone tried the DX or several of them in a row without ER?

[WuBai]

Update to my initial observations.  I moved my server to the same room as my streamer instead of relying on the wifi.  At first I had both my server and streamer connected to an Asus AC-1900 that is also feeding my Nvidia Shield in my living room.  It was a definite downgrade compared to having both boxes in separate rooms.

 

Thinking that Asus pulling double duty as Wifi and switch was a bad idea, I found a cheap TrendNet 5-port 10/100Mps switch that operates on 5Vdc.  This was great for a couple of reasons.  First it allowed me to force both my streamer and server to connected at a low speed which always sounds much better in my system.  Second, I could use my extra rail on my Shanti LPS to power the switch.  Now things really improved and were better than when the boxes were in different rooms.

 

I then took out the DX filters and attached one between the server and the switch.  Got very digital sounding and bothered my ears and I could feel a headache starting.  I am very sensitive to certain levels of filtration.  I don't know if it has to do with the bass or not, but although it might not sound too different to everyone, if it is wrong then I can immediately feel it and it gives me a headache.  So the DX filter wasn't doing too good here...but wait...

 

I reversed the direction just to check.

 

Yup, that digital feeling was gone and my ears could relax and there was a definite improvement in clarity across the board.  So then I decided to remove it from that location and connect it between the streamer and switch.  Immediately this was a better location for it.  I reversed the directions again, and one side definitely had that more strained 'digital' sound to it that bothered my ears, so in the end I felt only one DX filter on between the switch and the streamer.

 

I tried another one between the server and switch as well, this configuration having two DX filters in it.  It was a downgrade and I lost a lot of dynamics.  So for me, one was good and an upgrade and I'm happy I kept these little things!

 

As a side note:  I've heard of people on other forums making fun of EtherRegens or DX filters or all sorts of things with a super smug attitude saying something like "We swapped out the cable back and forth and nobody could hear a difference"  or "We put a EtherRegen in and it sounded exactly the same."  Then they laugh it up and think everyone is an idiot.

 

It makes me cringe because it shows that they don't even know the basics of how this stuff works.  You can't just pause the music, put in a filter, then press play again.  It will sound exactly the same!  You can take it out and put it back in a thousand times, and it will sound the same and you will sit there with a smug attitude thinking you're a genius.

 

No.  In order to test it you have to play a track.  Stop the track, add/remove the switch.  Then you need to play a new track for one second then go back to the original track that you were playing.  You need to wipe the memory of that song and have it reload again in memory through the switch.  You can't just press pause and play again.  You also can't press pause, put in the switch then rewind to the beginning.  The song is already in the streamer's memory and no matter what you add or take away at that point will make zero audible difference.  You have to force the player to completely refresh the bits through whatever device you've added or removed, and you can only do that by changing tracks and then going back to the original track.  Just makes me shake my head when these genius scientists with their expensive equipment don't even know the basics.  But then again, I didn't quadruple blind underwater A/B multiple dimension test it in a controlled laboratory in Switzerland to be sure, so my mind just must be playing tricks on me. 

 

DX Filter ended up being a very inexpensive tweak and definitely worthwhile.  Very system/setup dependent so don't be like me and pass judgement too soon.  Play around and experiment with it and you might find it a worthy tool in your arsenal.

 

Cheers 

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

On 7/9/2022 at 9:18 PM, WuBai said:

Update to my initial observations.  I moved my server to the same room as my streamer instead of relying on the wifi.  At first I had both my server and streamer connected to an Asus AC-1900 that is also feeding my Nvidia Shield in my living room.  It was a definite downgrade compared to having both boxes in separate rooms.

 

Thinking that Asus pulling double duty as Wifi and switch was a bad idea, I found a cheap TrendNet 5-port 10/100Mps switch that operates on 5Vdc.  This was great for a couple of reasons.  First it allowed me to force both my streamer and server to connected at a low speed which always sounds much better in my system.  Second, I could use my extra rail on my Shanti LPS to power the switch.  Now things really improved and were better than when the boxes were in different rooms.

 

I then took out the DX filters and attached one between the server and the switch.  Got very digital sounding and bothered my ears and I could feel a headache starting.  I am very sensitive to certain levels of filtration.  I don't know if it has to do with the bass or not, but although it might not sound too different to everyone, if it is wrong then I can immediately feel it and it gives me a headache.  So the DX filter wasn't doing too good here...but wait...

 

I reversed the direction just to check.

 

Yup, that digital feeling was gone and my ears could relax and there was a definite improvement in clarity across the board.  So then I decided to remove it from that location and connect it between the streamer and switch.  Immediately this was a better location for it.  I reversed the directions again, and one side definitely had that more strained 'digital' sound to it that bothered my ears, so in the end I felt only one DX filter on between the switch and the streamer.

 

I tried another one between the server and switch as well, this configuration having two DX filters in it.  It was a downgrade and I lost a lot of dynamics.  So for me, one was good and an upgrade and I'm happy I kept these little things!

 

As a side note:  I've heard of people on other forums making fun of EtherRegens or DX filters or all sorts of things with a super smug attitude saying something like "We swapped out the cable back and forth and nobody could hear a difference"  or "We put a EtherRegen in and it sounded exactly the same."  Then they laugh it up and think everyone is an idiot.

 

It makes me cringe because it shows that they don't even know the basics of how this stuff works.  You can't just pause the music, put in a filter, then press play again.  It will sound exactly the same!  You can take it out and put it back in a thousand times, and it will sound the same and you will sit there with a smug attitude thinking you're a genius.

 

No.  In order to test it you have to play a track.  Stop the track, add/remove the switch.  Then you need to play a new track for one second then go back to the original track that you were playing.  You need to wipe the memory of that song and have it reload again in memory through the switch.  You can't just press pause and play again.  You also can't press pause, put in the switch then rewind to the beginning.  The song is already in the streamer's memory and no matter what you add or take away at that point will make zero audible difference.  You have to force the player to completely refresh the bits through whatever device you've added or removed, and you can only do that by changing tracks and then going back to the original track.  Just makes me shake my head when these genius scientists with their expensive equipment don't even know the basics.  But then again, I didn't quadruple blind underwater A/B multiple dimension test it in a controlled laboratory in Switzerland to be sure, so my mind just must be playing tricks on me. 

 

DX Filter ended up being a very inexpensive tweak and definitely worthwhile.  Very system/setup dependent so don't be like me and pass judgement too soon.  Play around and experiment with it and you might find it a worthy tool in your arsenal.

 

Cheers 

I also reported early on that I noticed the direction of the unit makes the difference.  Wonder if you have pictures of how they are connected.  

[Zauurx]

On 7/10/2022 at 3:18 AM, WuBai said:

Thinking that Asus pulling double duty as Wifi and switch was a bad idea, I found a cheap TrendNet 5-port 10/100Mps switch that operates on 5Vdc.  This was great for a couple of reasons.

 

This is the basis of my system with a NAS server & fibre box connected to my Roon/HQPlayer server by 2 Trenda mesh boxes.
The HQPlayer server has a 100Mps ethernet connection. I did not change the MW3 box (100Mps) for a MW6 (1G Mps). I have a MW6 (1G) on the NAS side... it works very well.
I have a DXE between the wifi mesh and the HQPlayer server and an other DXE box between the server and the ZenStream streamer (dual JCAT ethernet card).
I don't have any hardness, and I never paid attention to the direction of the DXE connection. Apparently, if I refer to the drawing of the box, they are connected in the opposite direction, well if we consider that the stream enters the pc by the eth1 and leaves by the eth2...

They should be connected in the same direction (?): internet > DXE > server > DXE > Streamer

[Rsbrsvp]

can someone please post a picture to show the proper direction of the placement of these filters from router to switch?

 

 

[Rsbrsvp]

I have had a love/hate relationship with these filters for over a year.   On the one hand they bring out enormous detail and clarity, and on the other hand- they often sound dry, and sterile.  I have disconnected and reconnected them so so many times- and at times I get this sterile presentation, at times, it is not as bad.

 

After reading recent posts, I tested the idea that they may be "directional", and to my ears they are.   In the wrong direction- they sound dry and sterile.  In the correct direction they sound clear and musical.    The correct direction from my router to my streamer is with the "D" of the sticker facing the router and the "X" of the sticker towards the streamer- on both DX's in the signal path.   Same with my NAS.   The "D faces the router, and the "X faces the NAS for both filters.  Any other alignment- and dry and sterile it is...  

 

I would not be surprised if many have sold these incredible filters based on not getting this hook-up correct.  It is the difference between making things noticeably worse, or noticeably better.

[wanta911]

9 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

After reading recent posts, I tested the idea that they may be "directional", and to my ears they are.   In the wrong direction- they sound dry and sterile.  In the correct direction they sound clear and musical.    The correct direction from my router to my streamer is with the "D" of the sticker facing the router and the "X" of the sticker towards the streamer- on both DX's in the signal path.   Same with my NAS.   The "D faces the router, and the "X faces the NAS for both filters.  Any other alignment- and dry and sterile it is...  

 

OK I understand router to streamer as the streamer is downstream from the router but then you seem to have it the opposite way between NAS and router as the router is downstream of the NAS? Based on your first example, shouldn't the D face the NAS and X face the router?

 

Or maybe I just don't understand how the router and NAS interact? Which is very feasible 😁

[FIndingit]

The short Blue cables that come with the filters are not very durable. I got connection problems when twisted one of them too much. 

[Rsbrsvp]

On 10/31/2022 at 3:27 PM, wanta911 said:

 

OK I understand router to streamer as the streamer is downstream from the router but then you seem to have it the opposite way between NAS and router as the router is downstream of the NAS? Based on your first example, shouldn't the D face the NAS and X face the router?

 

Or maybe I just don't understand how the router and NAS interact? Which is very feasible 😁

This is what I thought.  But it sounded harsh and sterile.   It seems to my ears that the direction is always from my router to the PC or To the NAS   even though the streamer is getting the music file from the NAS and this is seemingly a violation of the direction.  Please try yourself......   Could be the Router is the "SOURCE" and therefore it always serves as the beginning point of the direction..

[Mike Rubin]

21 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

This is what I thought.  But it sounded harsh and sterile.   It seems to my ears that the direction is always from my router to the PC or To the NAS   even though the streamer is getting the music file from the NAS and this is seemingly a violation of the direction.  Please try yourself......   Could be the Router is the "SOURCE" and therefore it always serves as the beginning point of the direction..

Just speculating. In most systems, everything goes through the router, which probably isn't quite the audiophile device that other components are. If the filters are directional, *maybe* they filter out more interference on the signal originating from the noisier side of the path. 

[Rsbrsvp]

28 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

This is what I thought.  But it sounded harsh and sterile.   It seems to my ears that the direction is always from my router to the PC or To the NAS   even though the streamer is getting the music file from the NAS and this is seemingly a violation of the direction.  Please try yourself......   Could be the Router is the "SOURCE" and therefore it always serves as the beginning point of the direction..

Please forgive me--- I made an error.  I just checked and you are correct---- the NAS is the starting point and the two filters go in the direction of the the router, with the "D" of the sticker facing the NAS and the "X" facing the Router..  Than from the Router- the Filters go towards the streamer....  with the "D" facing the router and the "X" facing my streamer; or in my case my network switch.

[Rsbrsvp]

Has anyone compared the DX to the Network Accoustics "muon" filter?

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Has anyone compared the DX to the Network Accoustics "muon" filter?

I compared the price, and that's about the end of the issue right there. 

 

[Rsbrsvp]

Quote from the DX website to prove my theory is placebo effect:

 

"DX Engineering ISO-PLUS Ethernet RF Filters are bidirectional (input and output is interchangeable) and they have no effect on digital throughput; Ethernet data signal levels and speed remain unchanged"

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

Back to a few months ago, I noticed the details embedded in their instruction/introduction of how to implementing it.  In their web page, there is a chart show how to connect a router to a transmission receiver.  In that chart, the pair of DX-ISO—PLUS are aligned in such a way, that the letters printed on the small box, as DX - Ethernet cable DX.  I used to have the love-n-hate feelings as well, until I realized that a few pairs I used, some of them are matched as DX - ethernet cable - XD, the last XD obviously should be flipped but I cannot type it here for obvious reason.  Now half a year later, I realized I have not done a single change around DX—ISO - I feel I closed that book for myself.  😀
 

 

[Mike Rubin]

4 hours ago, One and a half said:

I compared the price, and that's about the end of the issue right there. 

 

You beat me to this. I hope the Muon is about 100 times better, because it is 100 times more expensive - and that is just for the filter. 

[Gr8tful]

22 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Quote from the DX website to prove my theory is placebo effect:

 

"DX Engineering ISO-PLUS Ethernet RF Filters are bidirectional (input and output is interchangeable) and they have no effect on digital throughput; Ethernet data signal levels and speed remain unchanged"

Or perhaps your system lacks synergy,  or is insufficiently setup to clearly hear the difference. No offense. Turning the dex around between nas and switch turns me around and away from listening. Maybe my results are made more significant by using ethernet cables downstream of dex that are shielded according to the generous guidance of John Swenson. The significance of the difference is like applying deoxit to terminal hardware that has oxidised over time. Or, a little more. Good luck. I hope you get there.

[Rsbrsvp]

55 minutes ago, Gr8tful said:

Or perhaps your system lacks synergy,  or is insufficiently setup to clearly hear the difference. No offense. Turning the dex around between nas and switch turns me around and away from listening. Maybe my results are made more significant by using ethernet cables downstream of dex that are shielded according to the generous guidance of John Swenson. The significance of the difference is like applying deoxit to terminal hardware that has oxidised over time. Or, a little more. Good luck. I hope you get there.

Which ethernet cables does John Swenson recommend?

[Gr8tful]

2 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Which ethernet cables does John Swenson recommend?

It’s a technique whereby you run a wire end to end from shield/connector to shield connector. Search in the forums here, lots of information about it. Cheers, B

[MartinT]

All the circuitry is inside the HALO socket modules.  There are isolation transformers and chokes inside each one.

[Dev]

I am interested in trying some but I am wondering if its necessary any benefit to use in pairs instead of just one for shorter runs, like 3ft ?

[One and a half]

A couple of months ago, was working on a remote mining site, where the grounding techniques were not that great for the installed CAT6 cables relaying on communications. Our gear complained that the buffers weren't writing correctly, and only played up when a 2200kW VSD was running.

A week ago a colleague went to the same site and packed a pair of DX-ISO filters to see if they cleaned up the signal, sure enough, our equipment didn't complain one bit, as if there was no trouble to begin with. Cable length would have been around 40m in parallel with 400V power lines for quite a few metres, causing much of the drama. So the choice was to re-route the cables, with no guarantee that could fix, the DX filters just worked, simple and effective solution!