ASR Audio Science Review forum YouTube Channel

[pkane2001]

10 hours ago, Rexp said:

You mean like assuming existing measurements are all that you need for audio evaluation. 

 

Sure. If you buy into this particular set of measurements, then that's all you need. If not, these are still useful, but may be incomplete. For example,  @Miska prefers to see measurements out to the 5-10 MHz range. That's fine, but most in the audio industry don't do that. If that's what you need, look elsewhere. I prefer measurements made using my own tools providing different metrics. Can't find that on ASR :) but that's the benefit of the World WIDE Web -- you can always look in two or three or 100 other places.

[pkane2001]

2 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Ah, you mean the manufacturer of the AP he uses.

IOW, don't make me laugh.

 

Hmm? No, not what I meant, but laughing is good for your health, so laugh, Peter, laugh!

[pkane2001]

39 minutes ago, lucretius said:

To be certain, the following comment applies only to the audio industry:

Of course, manufacturers send gear to be reviewed.  But not to be measured.  They send the gear to sites/magazines where they are certain they will get positive reviews.  These are usually the same sites/magazines where the manufacturers take out ads.

 

A quick keyword search on ASR shows about two dozen or so manufacturers that sent in their devices to be measured by Amir. Not all of them received glowing reviews.

[pkane2001]

12 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Can you tell me how my opinion, withholding information until I can verify it, and accurately publishing facts checked with the creators of the products could mislead people? Honestly, help me understand how and I’ll be able to answer. 

 

Validating opinion with objective facts before posting would be a good start in trying not to mislead. 

[asdf1000]

15 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Validating opinion with objective facts before posting would be a good start in trying not to mislead. 

 

Spot on.

 

One example that comes to mind is ASR's Denon AVR-X6700H review.

 

Initial unit was sent in by a member of the public to Amir.

 

ASR measurements showed issued. This was transparent for all to see.

 

Amir went in discussions with Denon engineers and Denon acknowledged the issue and made the fix.

 

Amir re-measured and the issues were fixed.

 

No damage done to Denon. In fact quite a lot of people were very happy with Denon's pro-active attitude. They won fans with how they reacted and rectified things.

 

A good example of how competent engineers tackle things.

 

And this is a clear example of ASR's measurements doing good for consumers.

 

Good luck to someone trying to argue against that.

 

With the typical review that is just subjective and you have paid sponsors and paid writers, you can't achieve this kind of thing that benefits the consumer.

 

More people measuring, more measurements, more data points, more verification is great for consumers.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

46 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Validating opinion with objective facts before posting would be a good start in trying not to mislead. 

 

How does one validate an opinion that something sounds fantastic or terrible?

[The Computer Audiophile]

19 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

Spot on.

 

One example that comes to mind is ASR's Denon AVR-X6700H review.

 

Initial unit was sent in by a member of the public to Amir.

 

ASR measurements showed issued. This was transparent for all to see.

 

Amir went in discussions with Denon engineers and Denon acknowledged the issue and made the fix.

 

Amir re-measured and the issues were fixed.

 

No damage done to Denon. In fact quite a lot of people were very happy with Denon's pro-active attitude. They won fans with how they reacted and rectified things.

 

A good example of how competent engineers tackle things.

 

And this is a clear example of ASR's measurements doing good for consumers.

 

Good luck to someone trying to argue against that.

 

With the typical review that is just subjective and you have paid sponsors and paid writers, you can't achieve this kind of thing that benefits the consumer.

 

More people measuring, more measurements, more data points, more verification is great for consumers.

 

 

Your example has nothing to do with what you think it does.

[JoeWhip]

Seems the Denon issue was due to a part not performing to spec. Has nothing to do with a poor design. Some smaller companies can check parts to make sure they are manufactured to spec. I guess not so with a company as big as Denon. Did the circle jerkers over at ASR crap all over Denon because of this? 

 

[pkane2001]

16 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

How does one validate an opinion that something sounds fantastic or terrible?

 

By first checking if it's otherwise broken. Then, by checking if you're really hearing the difference or imagining it.

[asdf1000]

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Your example has nothing to do with what you think it does.

 

You're right, this example is not good for consumers.

 

The style of reviews where money is involved is better.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

By first checking if it's otherwise broken. Then, by checking if you're really hearing the difference or imagining it.

 

Wow. We are on different planets. 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

You're right, this example is not good for consumers.

 

The style of reviews where money is involved is better.

 

 

Nobody insinuates more, but has less information that you. Put up or shut up. 

[asdf1000]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Nobody insinuates more, but has less information that you. Put up or shut up. 

 

I presented many lines of information with an example and you chirp with another one liner... another 'nothing' reply.

 

Share information about how that example is not good for consumers?

 

 

[pkane2001]

5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Wow. We are on different planets. 

 

I knew that :)

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, asdf1000 said:

 

I presented many lines of information with an example and you chirp with another one liner... another 'nothing' reply.

 

Share information about how that example is not good for consumers?

 

 

 

Paul and I were talking about Oranges and you chimed in with an example about used cars. 

 

You keep insinuating that there's no money involved in ASR and you couldn't be more wrong. In fact, it's much worse than my site because everyone on Earth can see who sponsors this site. It's transparent. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, pkane2001 said:

 

I knew that :)

 

Ha!

[asdf1000]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Paul and I were talking about Oranges and you chimed in with an example about used cars. 

 

Forget about your discussion with Paul for a moment.

 

And now look at the example I shared.

 

And explain to me how Amir's measurements in that example did not benefit the consumer?

 

He found an issue through measurement, Denon acknlowedged and fixed it.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

Forget about your discussion with Paul for a moment.

 

And now look at the example I shared.

 

And explain to me how Amir's measurements in that example did not benefit the consumer?

 

He found a measurement, Denon acknlowedged and fixed it.

 

I don't know the full circumstances of the issue and I certainly can't take your word for it and won't read about it over there. 

 

Not everything at ASR is bad. This may have been a good thing, but again, why not talk to Denon before publishing results? Oh yeah, it inflates one's ego to seem important and like one is doing good for consumers. A Populist audio site. Yeah right. 

 

I encourage you do take off your rose colored glasses with respect to ASR. 

 

By the way, you forgot to mention Schiit is sending ASR components now. As if that means anything. 

[asdf1000]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I don't know the full circumstances of the issue and I certainly can't take your word for it and won't read about it over there. 

 

This is pathetic. Evidence that you are a waste of time here.

 

I even showed you the statement from Denon themselves but you conveniently ignore it. Below once again. Denon's word.

 

More clear evidence of disingenuous behaviour by you, for everyone to see.

 

Explain to me, how ASR finding issues with the Vinnie Rossi Ultracapacitor Power Supply did not benefit consumers?

 

His measurements showed that it did not do what it claimed to do. The particular product was pulled from the market very soon after the review. You will again conveniently dismiss this.

 

You should close this thread now, like I asked you on Page 7 where I let you have the last word out of respect.

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

16 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

This is pathetic. Evidence that you are a waste of time here.

 

I even showed you the statement from Denon themselves but you conveniently ignore it. Below once again. Denon's word.

 

More clear evidence of disingenuous behaviour by you, for everyone to see.

 

Explain to me, how ASR finding issues with the Vinnie Rossi Ultracapacitor Power Supply did not benefit consumers?

 

His measurements showed that it did not do what it claimed to do. The particular product was pulled from the market very soon after the review. You will again conveniently dismiss this.

 

You should close this thread now, like I asked you on Page 7 where I let you have the last word out of respect.

 

 

 

 

 

Cherry pick all you want. 

 

I don't believe what you write because you clearly lied about your motive of seeking more measurements because we need to make sure the manufacturers aren't lying. Your Schiit example was a fabrication of twisted facts. 

 

Also, a companies public statement, that has gone through its PR department, is about as important as a politician denying a scandal. I encourage you to go behind the scenes, beyond the front cover of the items you talk about. 

 

I've clearly touched a nerve by calling out your beloved ASR. I suggest you just go over there are enjoy life. 

[asdf1000]

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Cherry pick all you want. 

 

 

More 'nothing' chirpy replies. Pathetic.

 

The attempted (but failed for all to see) back-pedalling is comical.

 

You could have avoided this when I asked you respectfully to close the thread on page 7 of this thread.

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Ok last post from me. You can copy/paste the same thing over and over, but it doesn't make you right. 

 

Please move on to ASR and enjoy looking at graphs, ignoring conflicts of interest, and your hidden measurement crusade. 

[asdf1000]

13 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You can copy/paste the same thing over and over, but it doesn't make you right. 

 

Copy/paste is  very useful when replying to people that try to deflect and ignore the examples and questions.

 

Readers and especially newcomers reading your replies should be reminded.

 

I show examples and ask you questions and answer your questions and you back-pedal and try to deflect and ignore answering with really pathetic replies. 

 

People can see this disingenuous behaviour clearly.

 

This particular copy/paste below is important for others to see who actually had good intentions very early on in this thread. When some claims 'crusade'

 

 

13 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Please move on to ASR and enjoy looking at graphs, ignoring conflicts of interest, and your hidden measurement crusade. 

 

I enjoy discussing various topics with people here too. The people that actually add value to technical discussions. Not just chirp with 'nothing' replies.

 

Or are you saying you're banning me?

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, asdf1000 said:

 

Copy/paste is  very useful when replying to people that try to deflect and ignore the examples and questions.

 

Readers and especially newcomers reading your replies should be reminded.

 

I show examples and ask you questions and answer your questions and you back-pedal and try to deflect and ignore answering with really pathetic replies. 

 

People can see this disingenuous behaviour clearly.

 

 

 

I enjoy discussing various topics with people here too. The people that actually add value to technical discussions. Not just chirp with 'nothing' replies.

 

Or are you saying you're banning me?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not banning you even though you insinuate that I'm on the take, without any evidence, and leave disparaging remarks about me. Not that big of a deal to me. 

 

I just think you'd be in heaven over at ASR reveling in the schadenfreude disguised as science. 

[Jud]

2 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

I enjoy discussing various topics with people here too. The people that actually add value to technical discussions. Not just chirp with 'nothing' replies.

 

Since this comment is the latest of multiple examples of what you claim not to enjoy, I'm supposing we ought not to believe what you say.  Or I invite you to actually do what you claim to enjoy, i.e., discuss with people who in your estimation "add value."