Article: Sound Liaison One Mic + Recording

[JoeWhip]

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[The Computer Audiophile]

Love it @JoeWhip!

[PYP]

Thank you.  Even the YouTube video through computer speakers reveals something different in the sound quality.  

Really enjoy reading about recording techniques.  Will check out the recordings now.  

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, PYP said:

Even the YouTube video through computer speakers reveals something different in the sound quality.

Oh no, I hope @fas42 doesn't watch. Oops, I let the cat out of the bag.

[PAP]

Well written and well researched. The album sounds even better now with this excellent back ground information. Thanks. 

[fas42]

Umm, my laptop speakers make it sound as if the drummer is disconnected from the rest of the music - he sounds like he's in the shed out the back of the studio - so, I can't give the recording a stupendous thumbs up, sorry 'bout that ... 😝.

[gmgraves]

5 hours ago, PAP said:

Well written and well researched. The album sounds even better now with this excellent back ground information. Thanks. 

Well, using a single-point stereo mike is a recording technique that I stumbled upon some years ago. I make all of my recordings using a single point mike. Mine is an Avantone CK-40 and is a large capsule (one inch) gold-sputtered Mylar diaphragm FET condenser mike. It is one of the best sounding mikes I’ve ever used; easily besting the extremely expensive and similar Telefunken ELA-M-270. The main differences being that the Telefunken has an etched brass diaphragm and the CK-40 has a modern sputtered Mylar diaphragm and the Telefunken is a tubed mike while the Avantone is FET. Believe me I have found that a good single point stereo condenser mike is the best way to record everything from a simple jazz or string quartet all the way to a full symphony orchestra (not really suitable for non-acoustic pop or rock though).

What put me on to this recording method was a Turnabout recording of Copland’s “Billy the Kid” and “Rodeo” with the Dallas Symphony made in the late 50’s using a single point ribbon stereo mike and a passive “mixer”. It had the most natural soundstage that I had ever heard. I subsequently bought a B&O ribbon stereo mike, but at the time I couldn’t find enough quiet gain for the thing. But the Avantone was perfect in that regard and I have been pleased with it’s performance ever since.

[PYP]

I downloaded two free tracks.  These are instrumental and vocals using the single mic.  While the drum was indeed muffled in the native DXD format, it sounded more dynamic in DSD format.   ????     And the DSD sounded more relaxed and detailed as well.    

 

Anyone else try this experiment?  

[PYP]

6 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Oh no, I hope @fas42 doesn't watch. Oops, I let the cat out of the bag.

 

Oops indeed.  On another thread I mentioned how YouTube is useless for listening to different gear for purposes of truly hearing the quality of the equipment.  So, what I meant was that even lousy YouTube revealed a different quality in the recording.  @fas42, try downloading the free samples.  The recordings are very natural (at least, for me, in DSD - see above).  They cannot be heard properly through the computer.  

 

 

[firedog]

This is an extraordinary recording.

I usually don't buy these kind of "audiophile" recordings b/c the music doesn't really appeal to me.

Don't take this the wrong way,  but most of the time it's second rate jazz, blues, and world music that's extremely well recorded. Not junk, but mostly the material or the performance isn't first class.  I usually don't buy it b/c I know I won't actually listen to it.

 

But I sampled this and it seems first rate- the music (Robert Johnson is the best), the arrangements, the performance, and the recording are all first rate.

I bought the 352hz and it is really good.

[blue2]

9 hours ago, PYP said:

I downloaded two free tracks.  These are instrumental and vocals using the single mic.  While the drum was indeed muffled in the native DXD format, it sounded more dynamic in DSD format.   ????     And the DSD sounded more relaxed and detailed as well.    

 

Anyone else try this experiment?  

Can you provide a link to the files? Do you mean Carmen Gomez "A Fool For You" from Sings The Blues, compare the formats? This was a multi-microphone recording.

 

BTW there are many reviews now on the Sound Liaison site itself. This one give some more background on the DXD sampler, One Mic and the recording process.

 

Nice article@JoeWhip

[Rexp]

11 hours ago, PYP said:

 

Oops indeed.  On another thread I mentioned how YouTube is useless for listening to different gear for purposes of truly hearing the quality of the equipment.  So, what I meant was that even lousy YouTube revealed a different quality in the recording.  @fas42, try downloading the free samples.  The recordings are very natural (at least, for me, in DSD - see above).  They cannot be heard properly through the computer.  

 

 

The Redbook download of the album in question is only 8 euro on Bandcamp, sounds good. 

[PYP]

4 hours ago, blue2 said:

Can you provide a link to the files? Do you mean Carmen Gomez "A Fool For You" from Sings The Blues, compare the formats? This was a multi-microphone recording.

 

https://www.soundliaison.com/index.php/6-compare-formats   I compared the highest resolution DXD and DSD.  Not sure if this is one mic or multi-mic, but the drums didn't sound live to me on the DXD.  Interestingly, when I listed to these tracks with my wife, she was primarily listening to the vocals and found the DXD "richer" than the DSD.  As usual, she is correct about the sound qualities.  Then I realized I am very used to the DSD-type of sound and listen for that.  If the DXD is "more analog," then I understand what folks look for in excellent vinyl reproduction (I've only heard OK vinyl reproduction, even in high-end stores).  To my ears, the "analog" sound on this recording isn't quite live, but then the DSD/redbook isn't either.  Nice to have alternatives.  

 

For the sampler download, I'll try the DXD since the muffled drums seem to be an issue only when using one mic and trying to record vocals at the same time.  

[JoeWhip]

This recording was released today in all high res options on Sound Liaison.

[Rexp]

11 hours ago, PYP said:

https://www.soundliaison.com/index.php/6-compare-formats   I compared the highest resolution DXD and DSD.  Not sure if this is one mic or multi-mic, but the drums didn't sound live to me on the DXD.  Interestingly, when I listed to these tracks with my wife, she was primarily listening to the vocals and found the DXD "richer" than the DSD.  As usual, she is correct about the sound qualities.  Then I realized I am very used to the DSD-type of sound and listen for that.  If the DXD is "more analog," then I understand what folks look for in excellent vinyl reproduction (I've only heard OK vinyl reproduction, even in high-end stores).  To my ears, the "analog" sound on this recording isn't quite live, but then the DSD/redbook isn't either.  Nice to have alternatives.  

 

For the sampler download, I'll try the DXD since the muffled drums seem to be an issue only when using one mic and trying to record vocals at the same time.  

Are you saying the drums are muffled on the record under review? Cos they sound clear as a bell to me on the redbook download, if only all redbook were done as well as this. 

[PYP]

41 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Are you saying the drums are muffled on the record under review? Cos they sound clear as a bell to me on the redbook download, if only all redbook were done as well as this. 

I downloaded "A fool for you" in PMC352 (DXD premium) and DSD256.  The DSD sounded dynamic and the DXD sounded very nice except for the drum, which was very far back in the mix.  

[JoeWhip]

Completely different album than the subject of this piece. I have the Sings the Blues in both 24/192 and a special request 24/176.4 recording and do not hear what you are describing.

[PYP]

47 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

Completely different album than the subject of this piece. I have the Sings the Blues in both 24/192 and a special request 24/176.4 recording and do not hear what you are describing.

Interesting.  Are those FLAC files?

[JoeWhip]

No I get WAV files

[PAP]

On 11/3/2020 at 9:25 AM, firedog said:

This is an extraordinary recording.

I usually don't buy these kind of "audiophile" recordings b/c the music doesn't really appeal to me.

Don't take this the wrong way,  but most of the time it's second rate jazz, blues, and world music that's extremely well recorded. Not junk, but mostly the material or the performance isn't first class.  I usually don't buy it b/c I know I won't actually listen to it.

 

But I sampled this and it seems first rate- the music (Robert Johnson is the best), the arrangements, the performance, and the recording are all first rate.

I bought the 352hz and it is really good.

I think there are several good audiophile jazz albums by first rate musicians to be had from various labels.

ECM  comes to mind as well as Naim and Linn and most of the Sound Liaison catalogue where the album bespoken here is from.

[PAP]

That said I do very much agree with Joe's observation that; 

Quote

 Far too many recording engineers pan the drums across the soundstage, giving an unnatural size to the drums. Not here. The drums are focused in the sound field and sound like a drum kit does live. I wish this was the case in more jazz recordings.

 

[PYP]

3 hours ago, PAP said:

I think there are several good audiophile jazz albums by first rate musicians to be had from various labels.

ECM  comes to mind as well as Naim and Linn and most of the Sound Liaison catalogue where the album bespoken here is from.

 

and, to my ears, Blue Note has may excellent jazz albums going back decades.  Blue Note (in general) has a certain full and organic sound that works for me.   

[PAP]

Dutch TV recorded the band around the same time as when  they recorded the SOUND LIAISON Album .

The video does show how wel in balance the band plays, I mean look at Carmen standing right next to the drummer, and still you hear everything.

 

[fas42]

3 hours ago, PAP said:

Dutch TV recorded the band around the same time as when  they recorded the SOUND LIAISON Album .

The video does show how wel in balance the band plays, I mean look at Carmen standing right next to the drummer, and still you hear everything.

 

 

All the instruments "on top of each other", and still you hear everything, is what happens with any recording, when the playback evolves to a competent level - it's one of the most obvious markers of playback reaching the right quality level; blurring of the acoustic clues that allow our hearing to distinguish what's happening in the recording spaces, is the giveaway of sub-par replay.

[ray-dude]

I was finally able to give this album a critical listen today, and was blown away.  Definitely one of Carmen's best, and the recording is one of the best I've heard from SL.  Not having yet read this review (no spoilers ;) I kept doing a double take at the quality of the recording of the guitar (wow).  Now reading the interview, I can see I wasn't the only one ;)

 

Great write up Joe!