Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[Exocer]

2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

I will get the FE180 clock. Not the DAPO. Hope is as good as DAPO. 

 

I do think per data sheet as confirmed by @Superdad, the FE-180 had the same phase noise spec as the DAPU. As far as other worthwhile specs go, I do not know where the two stand in comparison to eachother.

 

1 hour ago, MartinT said:

The Belden 1694A is not that good as an S/PDIF cable so I wouldn't think it the best for clock use

I wish I saw this comment before going that route. Will be replacing it soon with the Geisnote cable so it'll be interesting to compare.

 

For those that are US based, here is a cable to try: 1 Foot - 12G Rated RG6 Belden 4694R 18AWG 4K UHD SDI BNC Cable by Custom Cable Connection #113649-1C

 

Cheers

[Exocer]

This just arrived. Test and provide feedback today. The first noticable difference is the flexibility. Much more flexible than the Ghent cable.

[R1200CL]

On 8/28/2020 at 9:31 AM, MartinT said:

 

Now they do look worth a try.

Belden 4694R with silvered solid copper core and foil/braid shield.

 

Would be interesting to compare with the Canare 77S.

Ghent says he can supply it at $60 with JSSG360. 
Which may be a bit pricey, since it can be bought without extra shielding at £17 plus freight.
 

He won’t list it unless it’s a demand, so people will have to email him.

 

I’m not sure how much extra shielding will do on a coax, but it can’t do any harm. 
 

Looking forward to your findings with that cable @Exocer

 

[MartinT]

I've gone ahead and ordered a 30cm 4694R from Amazon and will compare with my 77S.

[Exocer]

9 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Ghent says he can supply it at $60 with JSSG360. 
Which may be a bit pricey, since it can be bought without extra shielding at £17 plus freight.
 

He won’t list it unless it’s a demand, so people will have to email him.

 

I’m not sure how much extra shielding will do on a coax, but it can’t do any harm. 
 

Looking forward to your findings with that cable @Exocer

 

 

The Geistnote takes the sound in a positive direction. It is more of a "feeling" than a describable trait at this point. Expect some more detailed impressions in several days! At this point I will say that both the Ghent and Geistnote sound good, with the Geistnote sounding a bit more refined. 

[FIndingit]

The markings on these units are various. Mine says 2019-12-09 on the outside, 2018-07-26 on the inside and 2020-03-13 on the board itself. The LT1963A regulator on the top gives out 12v so unless you input closer to 12.5v dc it does nothing (except add noise probably). 
 

I also doubt they actually impedance match the traces, parts etc to 75 ohm, they only change the connector (or don’t as it seems). 
 

But the clock has a positive impact, no doubt. 

[MartinT]

47 minutes ago, FIndingit said:

The LT1963A regulator on the top gives out 12v so unless you input closer to 12.5v dc it does nothing (except add noise probably).

 

That's interesting. Seeing as I'm giving it a well regulated 12V already it may pay to take out the regulator and link across, or else set my PSU to 13V.

[FIndingit]

I have always wondered whether bypassing regulation with lower input dc than the regulator needs (for dropout) is beneficial or not, but nobody actually knows. We should experiment. If it’s beneficial, I could find lots of use for “undervoltaging”. 

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, FIndingit said:

 

I also doubt they actually impedance match the traces, parts etc to 75 ohm, they only change the connector (or don’t as it seems). 

I really hope that’s not the case. Is there a way we can verify this ?

[MartinT]

Actually, looking at the spec sheet, dropout voltage of 340mV means that 12.5V input would suffice to keep it operating.

[Exocer]

2 hours ago, MartinT said:

Actually, looking at the spec sheet, dropout voltage of 340mV means that 12.5V input would suffice to keep it operating.

Interesting -

So I'm actually not doing anything at all if I'm feeding the clock 12V. Was this all placebo? 😀 Interested in the results of your experiment. I do not have a PSU with more voltage to feed it so...I will await the results of your test 

 

Interesting that the input voltage is labeled down to 11.7v and the included wallwart is delivering 12v at .5a.

 

Edit: I mis-read the original comment by @FIndingit. It is the regulator that may not be doing anything but adding noise when being fed 12v. The clock itself is still adequately powered to function. So I am no longer questioning whether this is placebo. The benefits are real..My only option would be to bypass the regulator.

[MartinT]

No, of course you're still hearing the benefits of the OCXO.

If the regulator is not getting sufficient to cover its dropout voltage, it will simply pass current through without further regulation.

 

I've now trimmed my LPSU to exactly 12.5V. I'm listening and it doesn't sound any worse! I'll let you know long term if I hear any differences.

[Exocer]

Well my wife helped me do a blind test switching cables.

 

We played the same song 4 times. Nils Lofgren Band Live - Two by Two

 

I was blindfolded and only allowed to press the play button and rotate towards listening position.

My wife would walk behind me before every play.

 

She would make similar sounds between "supposed" cables switches so I had no idea what cable was in or if it was switched.

 

The cable rotation was as follows:

 

1. Ghent

2. Ghent

3. Geistnote

4. Ghent

 

By the time I got to play #4 I had honestly forgotten what play 1 sounded like but I remembered 2, 3 and 4. So the first play was a throw away.

 

We both agreed the Geistnote sounded good but sort of "muted" in comparison to the Ghent, as if not as much information was presented. I was shocked at the results.

 

This test is NOT over. I am comparing a relatively broken in cable to a brand new one. The Ghent is also longer by 6", which should technically work against it.

 

So I will try this test again in several weeks with more songs after breaking in the Geistnote some more.

 

Just a fun experiment for a Sunday.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Well my wife helped me do a blind test switching cables.

....

Just a fun experiment for a Sunday.

 

Wow, your wife is good sport--a keeper for sure! 

[Exocer]

6 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Wow, your wife is good sport--a keeper for sure! 

 

Sure is! Definitely lucked out 

[MartinT]

4 hours ago, MartinT said:

I've now trimmed my LPSU to exactly 12.5V. I'm listening and it doesn't sound any worse! I'll let you know long term if I hear any differences.

 

Yes, I think it does sound better after several hours of listening. Sibilance is less (as in Paul Simon's voice, which is often mic'd too close) and naturally delivered detail up.

[PYP]

1 hour ago, Exocer said:

Well my wife helped me do a blind test switching cables.

So I will try this test again in several weeks with more songs after breaking in the Geistnote some more.

 

 

Just a fun experiment for a Sunday.

 

 

If my experience is typical, settling in requires two weeks or so.  Am curious if your wife would characterize it as a "fun experiment for a Sunday," but won't ask.     

 

For Emerson, Lake & Palmer fans, I was going to say:  Oh, what a lucky man...

but looked up the first verse:

 

[Verse 1]
He had white horses
And ladies by the score
All dressed in satin
And waiting by the door

[Hook]
Oooh, what a lucky man he was
Oooh, what a lucky man he was

[R1200CL]

On 8/30/2020 at 11:43 AM, FIndingit said:

I also doubt they actually impedance match the traces, parts etc to 75 ohm, they only change the connector (or don’t as it seems). 
 

The answer I got from seller is that the company BGTBL changed the PCB, not only the connector. 

[MartinT]

That does make sense, hearing how much better my 75 ohm version is over my original 50 ohm version. The lightning fast timing and punch are significantly enhanced.

[FIndingit]

This is a picture of the 50 ohm board. The output pin of the clock module is on the right and goes to c32. If someone could take a picture of the 75 ohm board now, because we only have a word from an alibaba seller. 

[MartinT]

I'm using Canare LV-77S as my clock cables. I was encouraged (see above) to compare it with its obvious competitor, Belden 4694R. The Canare comes with beautiful Canare true 75 ohm BNC connectors while the Belden comes with black chrome Neutrik connectors. Both are very high performance 4K/8K video cables.

I've been swapping back and forth and I'm damned if I can hear much difference, which may simply boil down to style. I wouldn't be able to reliably identify one from the other.

Since the LV-77S was noticeably better than the LV-61S, I've probably reached the limiting performance for 30cm of either. Good experiment, though, and only cost me £16 for the Belden.

[MartinT]

<later>

Having done extensive listening, I can say that tweaking the OCXO LPSU to 12.5V has improved performance, so the low dropout regulator is removing more noise from the DC rail.  I've settled on the LV-77S clock cables as performing well.  The EtherREGEN itself enjoys 12.5V LPSU power and a Black Ravioli grounding box connected to the ground terminal.  Both ER and OCXO sit on Black Ravioli Pads.

 

I have ordered a larger heatsink to bond to the top of the ER in order to cool it down some more.

 

A MeiCord ethernet cable from the router feeds into the ER and a very short 12cm unshielded cat 6 cable feeds my Asus streamer.

 

This configuration gives me superb insight into the music so I'm done with messing around with it.

[FileMakerDev]

On 8/28/2020 at 5:32 AM, R1200CL said:

I was total against external clocking. But for $92 and free shipping https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001245799329.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.358ed1dcNlVLxb I just have to try. 

 

 

Thank you @R1200CL !!!!

 

You posting that link prompted me to place my order, and it arrived a few days ago. I have paired it with a Ghent .5 M clock cable, a 12v power supply from Small Green Computer, and a power cord from VH Audio.

 

My audio chain currently is...

 

VortexBox > generic ethernet cable > hub > generic ethernet cable > EtherRegen > Phasure ET^3 > ultraRendu > Lush^2 > ISO-Regen > Lush^2 > Lampizator Big 7

 

On first connecting the clock to my EtherRegen, during my lunch break, I felt there was a minor but noticeable improvement -- my notes (which I emailed to a friend) say --

 

Quote

1. Sustaining notes linger longer -- this is relative of course... "long sustains" are a time-tested indication that my system is heading in the right direction, but I was more aware of them today while listening to certain evaluation tracks I know intimately. I'm guessing that this is an indication that the noise floor (which was already negligible) has been further lowered.

2. As I've mentioned previously, my system is dynamic and lifelike, with a precise sound stage, solid bass and midrange, and a gloriously open high end. Without sacrificing any of the preceding, with the clock attached, things sound a bit smoother and more musical. Another way to describe it would be "a tiny bit more analog", in the best sense of that term. This is a subtle-but-welcome improvement.

 

I then went back to work, came home and resumed listening about six hours later. Here are second listening session impressions:

 

Quote

I think that clock sounds better after it’s warmed up (or burned in) for a few hours. Because this is spooky nice. I was less impressed this afternoon than I am right now. Dynamics have definitely improved… the system sounds more “live” than it did prior to installing the clock.

 

Karen Carpenter’s voice has always sounded exceptional on the HORIZON album... now it truly sounds as if she’s in the room with me. I say this every time I make a major improvement in my system, but I’m hearing more micro details and nuances that I was not previously aware of. There’s better separation also. The cliché of “the speakers disappearing” describes what I’m experiencing now. This improvement is not subtle.

 

I’m more aware of individual voices when singers are doing multi part harmony, and hearing a lot more ambient sounds. Pianists shifting on their benches. Musicians' mouth and nose sounds -- and I mean more than before. I’m more aware of the individual notes in fast passages.

 

Bottom line:  I am thrilled I made this investment... this is more of an improvement than I would have thought possible to a system that already sounded superb. 

 

 

[FileMakerDev]

On 9/18/2020 at 1:23 AM, MartinT said:

This configuration gives me superb insight into the music so I'm done with messing around with it.

 

That's how I'm feeling (this week, at any rate) as well.

[Exocer]

17 minutes ago, FileMakerDev said:

 

That's how I'm feeling (this week, at any rate) as well.

Awesome.

 

Did yours come with the FE-180 clock or DAPU?