DIY Project High Performance Audio PC with high quality wiring

[Patatorz]

You mean increases in latencies (if you are looking to decrease latencies). If you refer to the link I gave for ecc, Linus Torvalds is highlighting the headaches for coding and kernels. I assume this is always a competition between the bad and the worse. 
my opinion. 
 

question : how do you recognize high quality DDR4 ?

[The Computer Audiophile]

This stuff can be fun. Trying different things, finding what works for each of us. Hard and fast rules are hard to come by. 
 

Enjoy :~)

[Patatorz]

Let’s enjoy music during others are testing :-)

[StreamFidelity]

1 hour ago, Patatorz said:

You mean increases in latencies (if you are looking to decrease latencies).

 

But you read quickly. I corrected that in seconds. You have a very quick error correction. 👍

 

1 hour ago, Patatorz said:

how do you recognize high quality DDR4 ?

 

A good question. In Germany and Austria there is a very good price finder that allows some parameters: Geizhals 

 

Main memory (RAM) "optimal criteria for audio PCs":
DDR4,
Package size up to 16GB,
Single module size: 8GB,
CL latency up to 8.8ns,
Maximum voltage: 1.35V,
Lighting: none,
Passic Cooling: heat spreader

 

Then I like to look for low latencies and a well-known manufacturer. After the selection, an intensive RAM test is important. If this turns out like this, even the best reported latencies are of no use.

 

 

Because then an audiophile reproduction can become impossible.

 

 

If the RAM test looks like this, everything is fine.

 

[Zauurx]

Yes, but the limitations of this card are also related to the cpu :

Support for 9th and 8th Generation Intel® CoreTM processors

Not necessarily the last one but 8/9... it's not 10... and even less 12.
At least it's compatible with my i5 8400 (8th generation) but I'm not ready to do DSD256 with 7ECv2 !

The idea is to benefit from the latest generations.

For cpu, lastest is often best

An i9-10900, mentioned above, allows DSD 256 7ECv2 (i think).

It's still fanless.
So a well powered Aorus MB (or equivalent) is certainly my future choice.

 

For the DDR, I agree but at SOTM it is limited to 2666Mhz

[Patatorz]

DSD 256 7ECv2 Is making such difference with HQP that you need such power ? With which DAC ?
what do you mean by « well powered » ?

[The Computer Audiophile]

17 minutes ago, Zauurx said:

Yes, but the limitations of this card are also related to the cpu :

Support for 9th and 8th Generation Intel® CoreTM processors

Not necessarily the last one but 8/9... it's not 10... and even less 12.
At least it's compatible with my i5 8400 (8th generation) but I'm not ready to do DSD256 with 7ECv2 !

The idea is to benefit from the latest generations.

For cpu, lastest is often best

An i9-10900, mentioned above, allows DSD 256 7ECv2 (i think).

It's still fanless.
So a well powered Aorus MB (or equivalent) is certainly my future choice.

 

For the DDR, I agree but at SOTM it is limited to 2666Mhz

perhaps this board isn’t made for those seeking the newest of anything. 
 

CPU is actually not a case of the latest is the best. 10th and 12th gen are good, 11 is not good in my opinion. 

[Zauurx]

11 minutes ago, Patatorz said:

DSD 256 7ECv2 Is making such difference with HQP that you need such power ? With which DAC ?
what do you mean by « well powered » ?

The best is the enemy of the good.
A French expression that would shut down all audiophile forums.
It's mostly the DSD256 that works very well on my system with a downward extension (vs DSD128).
But a little more (7ECv2) gets us closer to the graal !! 😉

 

At the moment, my happiness :

(I can't do better with the i5 8400)

 

 

 

 

[Exocer]

FWIW, I find this aspect interesting although a bit vague:

 

Quote

 In order to implement audio performance that exceeds the limitations of general motherboards in the existing market, the sMB-Q370 has applied a large number of audio parts that have been verified by being used in SOtM products for a long time and is designed to minimize the impact on each element inside the board to reduce noise as much as possible. Although this explanation may seem very simple, it can be said that it is the culmination of the many technologies that SOtM has implemented so far. The very deep and in-depth accumulation of technologies has made this possible.

 

That being said, there has to be "some" sonic value in building a motherboard with parts known to sound good in audio-specific gear. If the price is within reach for me i'd be willing to take the plunge and report on whether any noteworthy gains are to be had with this board. Also worth noting, there are some well-known brands out there producing world-class sound quality with off the shelf boards, some (at least one) of which made an attempt to produce their own motherboard and decided the off the shelf board was better sounding.

 

Interested in seeing where this goes. The decision to stay several generations behind is a bit controversial, but may have been done intentionally? As someone who does not upsample I am not too bothered by their choice but it would have been nice to use a newer chipset for the increased PCI-E lanes, advancements in VRM, and future longevity. 

[MarcelNL]

perfect is the enemy of good ;-)

 

Regardless, I've not read much in the marketing lingo of that MB that makes me trigger happy...asides from the fact I'm using Ryzen,it looks like a MB designed for low power older CPUs, nothing about direct phases, nr of VRMs etc.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

53 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

perfect is the enemy of good ;-)

Absolutely! And, the enemy of progress. 

[elan120]

On 12/17/2021 at 11:25 PM, Patatorz said:

Any more information around a release date, price and specifications ?

It is released now with MSRP of $550 without other options like sCLK-EX.

[Howenint]

Happy Holidays! To avoid conflict of interest, I declare we are JCAT's dealer here in Hong Kong. 

 

On Boxing Day holiday took the opportunity to upgrade our showroom's music server with a newly built PC to welcome JCAT's Optimo S ATX lineat PSU. Installation was a snap except for planning a rack space to home this beast and the lifting part :) 

 

First impression, everything became "BIGGER" over the previous server which is also fanless and full linear powered by a local maker whcih wasn't bad at all. Well done Marcin!

 

Best regards,

Dave 

[StreamFidelity]

On 12/16/2021 at 10:49 AM, StreamFidelity said:

The JCAT OPTIMO S ATX LPS is a game changer for me. 

 

Today I can justifiably say that the JCAT OPTIMO S ATX LPS is burned in. So after about two weeks or about 100 hours.

 

Oops, isn't that exactly what JCAT gave me? I swear I haven't thought about it until now. I only came up with it by doing my own calculations. 😃

1 hour ago, Mellowman said:

Especially since JCAT recommends between 100 and 200 hours of use to really benefit from it.

 

The reason was that the music flatters me today with a purity and clarity that I have never heard before. This is a very good end to the year. 👍

[Asimov]

Aloha! 
It takes a while to go through all the pages of this thread. And I am expressing my deepest gratitude to the contributors for sharing their insight and educating us.
I build a CAPS server long ago and used Foobar2K for playing everything in the native sample rate. From yesterday I am trying with HQPlayer but till now, I failed to get a better sound in DSD format(256) from 44.1K. Any conversion from PCM to DSD sounds inferior(soundstage narrowed down, muddy bass). But it sounds OK with a PCM higher rate(768k) but not better than Foobar2000 player in native sample rate. 
Now playing in: 
Mode: source, Filter: poly-sinc-guass-long, Shaper: Guass1 Format: 44.1k/16/2 - 768k/32/2 - it's no better than Foobar2K

Source: CAPS server with Xeon processor+ PPA OCXO USB card+ HD Plex LPS > ISO Regen> Gustard DDC U16 > HDMI > Denafrip Pontus II DAC 
Amp: Hegel P30 + H30
Speaker: Dynaudio Sapphire
Have you compared HQPlayer (upsampled in DSD) to Foobar2K in the native sample rate?
Could you please tell me what I am missing here?

[StreamFidelity]

On 12/31/2021 at 6:38 AM, Asimov said:

Have you compared HQPlayer (upsampled in DSD) to Foobar2K in the native sample rate?

No

 

On 12/31/2021 at 6:38 AM, Asimov said:

Could you please tell me what I am missing here?

Remote diagnoses are difficult. The filters and modulators of the HQPlayer are very diverse. If you like PCM better than DSD - why not? But it is a pity that Denafrips has a very good design for DSD. 

 

https://www.denafrips.com/specs-pontus

DSD	DSD64 (DoP) on Coax/AES/Opt Input
	DSD1024* On USB & I²S Input Only
PCM	24bits / 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192KHz On All Input
	1536kHz* On USB & I²S Input

 

I would experiment a little bit. Leave out the Gustard and go with USB into the DAC. Then you can do PCM oversampling up to 1.536kHz. Listen to DSD again with the new ASDM7ECv2 modulators. 

[Asimov]

1 hour ago, StreamFidelity said:

No

 

Remote diagnoses are difficult. The filters and modulators of the HQPlayer are very diverse. If you like PCM better than DSD - why not? But it is a pity that Denafrips has a very good design for DSD. 

 

https://www.denafrips.com/specs-pontus

DSD	DSD64 (DoP) on Coax/AES/Opt Input
	DSD1024* On USB & I²S Input Only
PCM	24bits / 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192KHz On All Input
	1536kHz* On USB & I²S Input

 

I would experiment a little bit. Leave out the Gustard and go with USB into the DAC. Then you can do PCM oversampling up to 1.536kHz. Listen to DSD again with the new ASDM7ECv2 modulators. 

Aloha!

Thanks for your response. 

I can't play with the ASDM7EC due to dropouts and it's due to 3.50Ghz processor. But it plays fine with ASDM7, actually it can't play any "EC" shaper. Now I'm playing with "source" mode with ease. But I will try again playing PCM files in DSD format without the DDC(Gustard). 

But I am curious why you are not using any DDC!

I have already ordered Hermes DDC from Denafrip but unfortunately it is limited up to DSD512 on USB Input & I²S Output and for PCM up to 768KHz on USB Input & Up to 384KHz on I²S Output. 

[StreamFidelity]

With this setting, the HQPlayer cannot sound good. The digital volume control is red. You have to set at least -3dB to avoid clipping. I use -4dB.

 

7 minutes ago, Asimov said:

But I am curious why you are not using any DDC!

 

The T+A SDV 3100 HV has Signalyst NAA (Network Audio Adapter) on board. This is the best connection I have had so far.

[Asimov]

10 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

With this setting, the HQPlayer cannot sound good. The digital volume control is red. You have to set at least -3dB to avoid clipping. I use -4dB.

 

 

The T+A SDV 3100 HV has Signalyst NAA (Network Audio Adapter) on board. This is the best connection I have had so far.

I read in the HQ thread that if I use external active pre-amp it needs maximum volume, and I am not hearing any clipping/distortion. Anyway, I'll use -3db. Thanks once again. 

 

BTW, have you tried any DDC with your Terminator Plus DAC?

[StreamFidelity]

42 minutes ago, Asimov said:

BTW, have you tried any DDC with your Terminator Plus DAC?

 

No. That would certainly have been an interesting experience with the GAIA DDC. I know that Denafrips recommends I²S. 

 

Source: https://www.denafrips.com/terminator-plus

 

My sound experience with JCAT USB XE was great, so I never felt the need.

[StreamFidelity]

2 hours ago, Cazzesman said:

@StreamFidelityI have slowly been working my way through the 146 pages.    There is a massive amount of talk about lowering the heat within the HDPlex H5 cases, with the higher powered CPU's  - TDP 105 and above.

 

I love the look of your Perspex lids.   I can't see anywhere if you have done any testing of temps from your personal Server both with the standard H5 lid on and with the 4 Hole Perspex Lid.

 

Any stats available please?

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

I have copied this question to my thread.  

 

With the old H5 V2 chassis, the CPU temperature difference between an open chassis and with acrylic lid was only 2-3°C (depending on operation and installed components). 

 

The new H5 V3 chassis cools the CPU much better. There is also now a solution for the Solarflare NICs via heatpipes. With that in mind, the optics (whoever likes it) outweighs the cooling effect. 😉

 

I think the acrylic lid will still cool a few degrees better because the air is exhausted directly above the CPU and PCIe cards. For hardcore DSD conversion it maybe make the difference. But I haven't done any measurements. 

 

 

[Cazzesman]

Thanks for the reply,

 

the CPU temperature difference between an open chassis and with acrylic lid was only 2-3°C

 

When you say 'open chassis' I take it you mean with the metal lid completely off the H5.

 

If that is the case do you have data on both the approx temps with the metal lid on and with the lid off? v(depending on operation and installed components).

 

I am just trying to gage the merits of the large holes in the lid, to release so heat build up.    No doubt there is some but I was wondering how much approximately.

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

 

[oneguy]

I like the idea of strategically placed holes. I’ve noticed a large delay in the time it takes for me to hit my max temp setting lid on vs lid off. Lid on took 15-20 mins. Lid off took about 2.5 hours. 

[StreamFidelity]

10 hours ago, Cazzesman said:

When you say 'open chassis' I take it you mean with the metal lid completely off the H5.

Yes

 

11 hours ago, Cazzesman said:

If that is the case do you have data on both the approx temps with the metal lid on and with the lid off?

Not yet. Maybe I'll run a series of tests at some point. At the moment, I don't have the time.

[MarcelNL]

peak temperature is one thing, temperature stability is another. It may well be more beneficial for performance to accept a one or two degree higher temperature that is very stable than a lower but more unstable CPU temperature. Ultimately CPU temp is also important, IMO the difference between 55 or 57'C is likely inconsequential.

 

I added a significant copper mass to the CPU to increase temp stability and although I cannot differentiate between temp stability or decreased vibrations the SQ impact was well worth it.