Article: Audiophile Style State of the Union

[The Computer Audiophile]

27 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

Very simple, finding the best performing/measuring components minus any non-verifiable BS. 

In search of real High Fidelity.

Why is there support for MQA there? 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

Have you ever been on a sports car forum??  Track times are always mentioned and compared.

Why? They are all subjective unless driven at the same time by a robot. Hard to believe you’d be into that “pseudo-objective” clap trap. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

I agree that many lack self control and go off the rails screaming when someone points out that simple physics proves they are hearing confirmation bias, not sound.

They go off the rails because guys like you can’t stand other people enjoying themselves. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

you have me confused with someone else

 

 

Absolutely not. Do a self assessment please and look at all your posts. Do they add much value or do you just like snark and comments that serve to derail discussion? A huge % of your posts have zero to do with helping anyone get more enjoyment out of HiFi. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

you define enjoyment differently that I do - falseness doesn't count in my book

 

I suggest that YOU do a self-assessment, and think hard about your "livelihood" vs. claims of creating an "enjoyment space" for the deluded, as you have several times posted about these disparate issues.

Ralf, I believe it’s time for you to move on. If you consider the members of this community deluded and have no common interest, there’s no constructive purpose to be here. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 hours ago, marce said:

Yes CENSORSHIP that's the way forward so No claim however daft it is can be questioned, and thus the manufacturers get richer....

 

6 hours ago, marce said:

What questioning beliefs that are not backed up by science or engineering...

I could go on about how I have seen hi-fi dwindle from readily available systems in the likes of Curry's, Walmart etc. to where we are now... directional fuses for one...

You comment does say a lot though on where you want this site to go, you claim an open mind, but you language says different...

Again why do the hard core subjective beliefs need so much protection from questioning?

Marce, you just don’t understand how things work. Like minded people with shared interests don’t want to hear from you. They come here to have fun, not have their entire existence questioned. 
 

I believe it’s time for you to move on to a place that encourages confrontation and driving people away from whatever enjoyment they may have had. This isn’t the place for such nonsense. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, marce said:

The funny thing is in all this, is that at the end of the day,

Designing electronics and speakers to replay music is

objective/engineering based, especially the digital side of things.

Anyone remember the old adage, hi-fi amplifier should be like a “bit of wire with gain”.

Nothing added/nothing subtracted for the signal in to the signal out.

No hobbyist here is designing electronics or speakers. We listen to them to have fun. 
 

Please move on to whatever site wishes to host your crusade. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, marce said:

Don't worry Chris I will be moving on, your recent attitude has been somewhat biased...

I do know what provoked this recent inquisition, I am sure you will all be happy with no opposing views or only technical input that supports the viewpoint...

Goodbye. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

16 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Interestingly - but not surprisingly - it's a low activity forum. 

But also surprising if you take objectivists at their word of wanting to better the audio world and leave lasting information for newbies. I guess without the satisfaction of pissing in someone’s punch bowl, the altruism is gone. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

46 minutes ago, esldude said:

The bs and the money won.  Chris won. Makers of make believe won. Hard to be genuinely helpful in such an environment. Easy to spin the fanciful tale.

Facts matter. It’s now even easier to help because you don’t have to fight off make believe while educating.

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, Confused said:

So when a thread starts to get derailed, perhaps we just need to send the culprits to the pub car park and let them sort things out, the rest of us can then stay in the public bar a continue a civilized conversation.

 

I struggle to believe that the fight takes place without an audience. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Mans has already left and I expect most of the other folks with technical chops to either leave soon or scale back their participation in this site.

 

Will you be stepping in to fill their shoes?

If you think there are only a handful of people on Earth capable of debunking MQA and offering technical information, you're incorrect.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, kumakuma said:

 

True but they will driving traffic to other sites in the future.

I don't think the MQA discussion will fly at ASR. There is a monetary motive to push MQA over there. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

I'm on vacation in Hawaii so haven't been following this too closely, but I do applaud Chris' decision on this. It's become an untenable situation with several members here (who have been on my ignore list for quite awhile). Problem is, though they seem to always have the answers in the name of science and measurements, rarely do they evoke any actual facts or technical help beyond just one line naysayers. In fact the chief of one liners, who just left in a pout, never even listed his audio gear, which could be anything or nothing, so therefore nothing for others to even see what his baseline personal experience in these matters is/was. It's more often than not a straw man syndrome imo.

 

The problem then is that it's only human to attack back when constantly challenged and humiliated by the 'it's all in your head' cliches. And that's not a good look either, for us supposed 'subjectivists'. I found myself going down that rabbit hole over on the Roon forum, where anything I said was then twisted around by the objectivists naysayers, to the point that those who have heard changes with networking gear were compared to anti-vaxxers and flat earth's, because you know, if you experience something without being able to fully explain it you're considered anti-science, which couldn't be further from the truth. Of course none of them could point to any actual science, measurements or theories why it shouldn't make a difference, just that 'science' says it shouldn't. It became a game of semantics on their part, which I consider the last resort of those who have nothing. I got bitchy and nasty and then woke up and realized what had happened and didn't like seeing myself that way so went back and deleted my posts. 

 

My main point was that science is good, and the reliance on science good, but science is just a creation of humans and is ever evolving as we figure out new places to look and new ways of measuring, and we just haven't got there yet with audio related networking yet, and may never get there in relation to the complexities of the human ear/brain interaction and human listening. But even that call for balance and evolving curiosity got flamed to no end. It can become really disheartening and a real waste of time to even bother relating any 'subjective' listening experiences. If I had a degree in EE and physics and a home lab with hundreds of thousands of dollars of testing gear, I might not have to rely on personal experience. But most consumers of hifi gear don't, so experienced listening is the most that most of us have to go on - on 'both sides of the aisle.' 

 

 

Enjoy your vacation Charles. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

MQA is done. I was thinking of the future.

 

With other topics it isn't much different over there. If there's a financial interest, it won't be measured and compared to the least expensive options and talked about the same way as products from manufacturers that aren't liked. It's really all about using the term science as a mask, cherry picking the clap traps, and protecting one's own business. Fine with me, but I'm not willingly blind to it.

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

I thought Sandy was removed from this thread - why are you addressing him?

I thought you were gone. Why are you still here? 

 

Nobody has been banned from the comment section of an article. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

You seem to assume that the refugees are going to Amir's place. 

 

I'm going by what they've said. 

 

I they are looking for a place that allows them to be rude and piss into a punch bowl, I don't know where they'll find it. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Sure, OK.  But I don't think your recent actions will be seen as rolling out the red carpet for them.  This is a win for MQA Chris.  I know it seems like I'm trolling but based on the history of MQA here, a strong case could be made that you've handed a huge win to MQA by raising up the "subjectivists" above everyone else.

 

You mark my works, Quint and his ilk we be back in spades, reveling in their "win".

 

 

Quint can say whatever he wants. I don't care if he declares victory. 

 

Suggesting that only objectivists can "fight" MQA isn't a logical argument. The facts have been out for years. It's all about other stuff now. MQA doesn't care about the facts.  

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Evidence. please? As far as I know, Amir doesn't sell to the audiophile community. What is it that he needs to protect for his own business which is generally high-end home theater, and integrated security installations?

 

There is plenty of crossover in high end home theater and audiophile products. I've been to countless installations and seen it in a majority of cases. 

 

Because he has access to everything he sells, and more, it should be pretty easy to march that stuff out to the test bench and compare it to the new holy grail of the minute. He constantly rails against high end mfgs, but of course none of them who are his venders and he would never measure his gear and tell a customer to stop buying the expensive stuff because the cheap stuff is just as good. Yet, he does this all day long when it's someone else's business thats effected. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

So, no evidence, just a suspicion of impropriety? Can you give just a few brand names of what he uses in his business that he refuses to measure? Because I'm pretty sure he measured some expensive digital processors he claims he uses for his business, and they did not measure well.

 

I've been down this path countless times, naming brands etc... not going down it again for you to ignore the evidence. Plus, you don't seem to want the information so I will not force it down your throat.

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

I completely understand the spin you're putting on the de facto purge.  But I'm talking about the actual history of MQA dissent that started on this very forum, not some non sequitur hypothetical. 

No worries. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, lucretius said:

 

What about those dyno graphs?

What about apples and oranges? 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, esldude said:

One need only look at the predecessor he is following at Head Fi.  Now AS is poised to slide all the way to maximal profit with no contrary views possible in the mainstream discussions of the forum.  Head Fi is the largest audio forum on the internet by a good margin.

I've always looked at what Jude has done with Head-Fi as a great model. He has a huge audience that has maximized its enjoyment of this wonderful hobby. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that in my book.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

At the end of the day, this was a business decision for Chris and nothing more.  "Subjectivists" buy more stuff and are way more influenced by hype and the Audiophile Press.  Chris is just going where the money is.

 

"it's not personal, it's business"

Not really Sam. This place has to be enjoyable for me, otherwise it turns into a job that I could get anywhere, but with much less hassle. It wasn't enjoyable for me babysit adults who had every opportunity to curtail their own behavior and follow the well known rules. I could have banned those who couldn't follow the rules, but I opted to give them an opportunity and to give the objective minded ones who do follow the rules a place free from BS. Perhaps we end up in the same position with respect to some people leaving but it isn't about the money. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Last week, I would not have believed you aspire for AS to be like Head-Fi.  After this weekend, it's still a little shocking, but totally jibes with your new industry-friendly makeover.  I expect to see Scoggins back here any minute now...

Understood. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, esldude said:

Those bygone days were when you asked how to connect something you'd be told use a USB cable meeting spec.  While now the same question with that answer will result in being told you'll need a somewhat expensive cable, and one or two USB cleaners, and maybe some optional power supplies for the cleaners before you can expect good results. 

 

I learned a lot in those days, now you'll mostly be helped to spend lots of money on dubious gear for some pretty simple setups.

You're misremembering things Dennis. The The Synergistic Research Tricon USB cable ($550) was talked about around here two monts after this site started. Not that I'm proud of it, but just want to get the facts out there.