The problem with subjective impressions

[daverich4]

12 hours ago, gmgraves said:

looks to me like you need to try some really GOOD headphones. Try the modestly priced HiFiMan Jade2 electrostatics, or, if you have the cash, a pair of Stax SR-009s and the SRM-007TII amplifier. Either one as well as a good pair of magnetic phones such as the Sennheiser HD-800s, or the HiFiMan Arya will likely change your mind. Keep in mind that if you opt for a pair of magnetic headphones instead of electrostatics, you’re going to have to spring for a really good headphone amplifier or you are wasting your money. Something like the Headamp brand or one of Schiit’s headphone amps. Plugging into an amplifier’s or a DAC’s headphone jack usually just won’t do (there are a few exceptions - Benchmark’s DAC3 headphone amp is excellent as is the headphone amp in the Hugo2 DAC from Chord. I’m sure there are others.

I think a preference for or against headphones is more than that. I have HD800’s, Audeze LCD-3’s and Focal Clears. I much prefer listening to my stereo over any of them. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

I think a preference for or against headphones is more than that. I have HD800’s, Audeze LCD-3’s and Focal Clears. I much prefer listening to my stereo over any of them. 

I’m the same way. 

[Samuel T Cogley]

3 hours ago, daverich4 said:

I think a preference for or against headphones is more than that. I have HD800’s, Audeze LCD-3’s and Focal Clears. I much prefer listening to my stereo over any of them. 

 

How much do you want for the LCD-3s?

[Samuel T Cogley]

When Tidal was brimming with UMG audibly watermarked files (seems some/many have been replaced with MQA), people listening with headphones seemed much more likely to notice than those listening with speakers.  To me, that's a ringing endorsement of headphone listening.

[The Computer Audiophile]

27 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

When Tidal was brimming with UMG audibly watermarked files (seems some/many have been replaced with MQA), people listening with headphones seemed much more likely to notice than those listening with speakers.  To me, that's a ringing endorsement of headphone listening.

That’s an interesting take but one I’m not sure I agree with. Yes, headphones can reveal this kind of stuff, but I don’t believe this equates to a real performance as the artist intended. Being able to pick out abnormalities like this certainly means they are more audible via headphones, but I’m just not sold that it also means headphones provide a more realistic representation of the recorded event. 
 

As always I’m willing to be persuaded and love to listen. 

[mansr]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’m just not sold that it also means headphones provide a more realistic representation of the recorded event. 

Well, last time I went to a live gig, the musicians were definitely somewhere in front of me, not inside my head.

[Samuel T Cogley]

25 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

That’s an interesting take but one I’m not sure I agree with. Yes, headphones can reveal this kind of stuff, but I don’t believe this equates to a real performance as the artist intended. Being able to pick out abnormalities like this certainly means they are more audible via headphones, but I’m just not sold that it also means headphones provide a more realistic representation of the recorded event. 
 

As always I’m willing to be persuaded and love to listen. 

 

Since almost all my listening is with headphones/IEMs, I'm not missing what you would miss with headphones.  And no, I don't use DSP crossfeed as I prefer my playback to be pristine. 😎

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Since almost all my listening is with headphones/IEMs, I'm not missing what you would miss with headphones.  And no, I don't use DSP crossfeed as I prefer my playback to be pristine. 😎

I use IEMs every night and must say I enjoy the music through them immensely. 

[semente]

2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

When Tidal was brimming with UMG audibly watermarked files (seems some/many have been replaced with MQA), people listening with headphones seemed much more likely to notice than those listening with speakers.  To me, that's a ringing endorsement of headphone listening.

 

You have to enjoy it.

 

For it's a weird, unnatural listening experience and not particularly comfortable.

[daverich4]

3 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

How much do you want for the LCD-3s?

It’s not that I don’t use them, I just prefer the stereo. 

[4est]

7 hours ago, esldude said:

Pretty much at some threshold of fidelity all DACs that measure above the threshold will sound the same.  Where the threshold is might need work or not.  I think this is a problem for many audiophiles.  They just can't believe there becomes a point where everything sounds the same as everything else meeting some given performance spec.  But it will.......or it has.

 

There are many reasons to buy this DAC vs another beyond sound quality.  Just don't get confused about why you are choosing one. 

Although I am sure you are correct, I just haven't seen this as of yet. I've not owned uber high end DACs, but I switched from a Berkeley Audio DAC to a Weiss DAC2 at one point. They sounded clearly different here. At the time, I think they were both in the 3-5k range. My present DACs are DIY, and they all sound different than the Weiss or each other. I kept the Weiss until I could beat it.

[gmgraves]

9 hours ago, daverich4 said:

I think a preference for or against headphones is more than that. I have HD800’s, Audeze LCD-3’s and Focal Clears. I much prefer listening to my stereo over any of them. 

I too prefer to listen over speakers when possible. But when one lives in an apartment as do I, one cannot “raise the roof” with realistic orchestral SPLs, so headphone listening is necessary sometimes. I decided to embrace headphones and having decided that, I might as well find the best that I could afford. At the moment, that’s the HiFiMan Jade2 electrostatics with the Stax SR-L007s as a close second.

[gmgraves]

10 hours ago, 4est said:

Although I am sure you are correct, I just haven't seen this as of yet. I've not owned uber high end DACs, but I switched from a Berkeley Audio DAC to a Weiss DAC2 at one point. They sounded clearly different here. At the time, I think they were both in the 3-5k range. My present DACs are DIY, and they all sound different than the Weiss or each other. I kept the Weiss until I could beat it.

I’ve yet to hear two different DACs sound, even superficially, alike. Even different models from the same manufacturer sound different.