Kimo Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, esldude said: Actually the reverse is usually true. High voltage lower current in tube amps. Lower voltage higher current in solid state. But both are similarly related to the power output vs power drawn from the wall plug. I know that I saw a thread where the Atmasphere OTL guy was talking about how me easily measured voltage drops along a power cord, and that the sound of the amp can suffer because of this. My tube amp came with its own specially designed cord that is rather long and stiff. I have never tried it on the solid stage amp, which goes to show that I am not a very good subjective audiophile. Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted January 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2020 45 minutes ago, esldude said: While not an engineer, I can provide anecdotal testimony. A friend who should know better was all jacked up on the idea adding acetone could improve his gas mileage. Asked my opinion, and I told him I was pretty sure it would not. He asked for an explanation (I was going to be nice and say nothing more). I explained how its BTU value vs gasoline was less, it wouldn't increase octane etc. etc. He was only more adamant about trying it then. And threw up to me all these web sites, and testimonials by others about how it really worked. I told him the simple thing. Run a few tanks without it for baseline and the same with it and let me know how it goes. He did, and it didn't work, and he didn't bring it up anymore. But if just the right pitch is given him for some other similar product he'll be no less likely to believe it again. His experience won't seem to stick in such cases. Even if you point out previous failures of a similar nature. He is intelligent enough he should know better. What does this tell me? Not much. This is a great example of why people shouldn’t try to save others and repeat the same stuff over and over. It doesn’t work, so save your breath. Suggesting he should know better is often looking at this from a different angle. My guess is people just want to try stuff and will find whatever justification they need. Not that big of a deal. Nobody is dying. Teresa and daverich4 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 On 12/29/2019 at 7:06 AM, Summit said: The problem with subjective impressions is not that they are made by listening and comparing different devices. At least not in my opinion. The problem is that when we describe the difference between diverse hi-fi stuff, we are often too subjective in our descriptions. By subjective, I mean that we often use exactly the same terms and adjectives to describe the difference, whether the difference is relatively small or if it is more significant. Now, I'm pretty sure some people disagree with me on this, and think that they describe their subjective observations in an objective way. Okay there are exceptions, of course, but I would say they are in the minority. I think that no matter what parts of a hi-fi system, placement and the room itself we believe are most important, it is often difficult when reading reviews or impressions to understand the reviewer's gradation difference between a little but observable - to that sounds like a completely different hi-fi system. If you do not already know from your own experience that the speakers and their placement in the room almost always have a much greater impact on the sound quality than a power cable, frame memory or a switch, it can be difficult to interpret how much impact we are really talking about. Now, I think most people here know the difference I described, but maybe not between all other parts of our hi-fi chain. Anyway I've read a large number of reviews and impressions and BELIEVE that the “problem” is because we often describe subjective differences too subjective and in more or less the same way regardless of whether we describe more significant differences from two completely different types of amplifiers or two external power supplies of the same type. What I want to say is that although I think there are relevant differences between different cables, hard drives, PSUs, external clocks and so on, but because of how we usually describe our observations in the same way, it is often difficult to know how big a difference it actually is at the system level and compared to other upgrades we can do for the same money. I am all for subjective observations, but think that we can all benefit if we can get a little more objective in our descriptions in our reviews and impressions. I have also observed that the reviews that are more moderate written do not become as "popular" as those where it seems that the difference is of a more revolving nature. Yes, I actually think there has been a steady inflation of superlatives generally in the hi-fi world, and who really benefits from that? Not one of us I would think. If someone buys something and believes now my audio system will sound superb, but does not, well then the person can be burnt and not captivate observations describing the more significant differences of other gear, because the exact same superlative has been used, and reused. What I wish for is that we all would try to describe the subjective differences more nuanced and in a more objective way and not as if all parts of the audio chain play the same role for SQ, although of course many small individual differences together make more significance. The question is how can I / we describe the difference between devices in a detailed way but still not make it sound like the difference is bigger than it really is? I know that some reviewers wait several months before writing and publishing their review. Maybe we can get a better perspective on the actual sound difference that way? Less FOTM and talk about burn in. TD; LR I think that we would all benefit on some sort of categorizing of how big the difference is in relative terms and in the grand scheme of things instead of as it was an isolated part of the audio chain. And rant Interesting rant and one that I don’t necessarily disagree with but obviously don’t agree with all points. When I write I am always cognizant of which words I use. If I say something is the best, it must be the best or I’ve just mislead people. I frequently use the terms good and great to describe two different levels of quality. There are gradations within these as well unfortunately. I think subjective writers must understand they can’t please everyone with their style and choice of words. I write to please the mythical reader that is myself. In other words, would I like the review and get something out of it if I was in the reader’s shoes. For the most part this goes a long way as opposed to writing for other people or trying to please others by writing what I think they want to read. Teresa 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted January 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2020 49 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: Repeatedly insisting that power or interconnect cables cannot improve sound is needed to counter such insanity. No. It’s needed when it’s wanted. The idea that you need to repeatedly do this is like thinking you can change the behavior of a spouse, who has been doing something for 50 years, by just repeating your arguments. You can’t change people, they have to want to change. Allan F, Teresa, 4est and 1 other 2 2 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted January 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2020 Then there is Brandolini's law. pkane2001 and Jud 1 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted January 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2020 For those who aren’t familiar. Allan F and Jud 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post Allan F Posted January 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: No. It’s needed when it’s wanted. The idea that you need to repeatedly do this is like thinking you can change the behavior of a spouse, who has been doing something for 50 years, by just repeating your arguments. You can’t change people, they have to want to change. All the more so when the unwanted repetition is not true. sandyk, christopher3393, The Computer Audiophile and 3 others 5 1 "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
Allan F Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 On 12/29/2019 at 5:06 AM, Summit said: The question is how can I / we describe the difference between devices in a detailed way but still not make it sound like the difference is bigger than it really is? I don't know that there is an answer to this question. Part of the problem is that we all don't necessarily hear the same way and what I may experience as a subtle difference, you may experience as a major one. A possible answer is to simply describe the difference as audible, and limit the detailed description to the nature or characteristics of the difference as opposed to its magnitude. But that makes it more difficult for someone to decide, based on the description, if the difference is significant enough to justify the expenditure of changing the device. Ultimately, I suppose one can only use these experiences as guides to whether a device is of sufficient interest to investigate further. Teresa 1 "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
mansr Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 When someone asks for advice, how are we to know which kinds of advice are allowed before Alex or one of his goons shows up to tell us? daverich4 and Ralf11 1 1 Link to comment
lucretius Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 10 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: For those who aren’t familiar. The BS never really goes away, it just gets rebranded. mQa is dead! Link to comment
Solstice380 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 9 hours ago, Allan F said: if the difference is significant enough to justify the expenditure of changing the device. Your whole post is good. I think that this (quoted) is always going to be a personal thing, as you say. How do you gauge the value of an incremental improvement to someone other than yourself? Hell, I wrestle with myself all the time over that one! I LOVE the sound of my system as it is - best I've ever had in my life since I dove into this rabbit hole buying good equipment starting in the early 80s. The incremental for me would cost huuuuge money but for someone else starting out it may not. And my gains will, most likely, be less than theirs. I used to (somewhat) jokingly say: The universe is 100% physics and 100% personal preference. Respect both! https://audiophilestyle.com/profile/21384-solstice380/?tab=field_core_pfield_3 Link to comment
Popular Post Samuel T Cogley Posted January 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2020 43 minutes ago, Solstice380 said: I used to (somewhat) jokingly say: The universe is 100% physics and 100% personal preference. Respect both! As long as we're getting all philosophical, the universe doesn't have a particular need for humanity. Or to paraphrase George Carlin: "Save the planet? You mean save the people! The earth will just shake us off like a bad case of fleas. The earth is fine." I always look at this hobby through the lens of consumerism. Audiophilia can't be more virtuous than consumerism, because it is consumerism. semente, Solstice380, Iving and 2 others 3 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Richard Dale Posted January 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2020 22 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: As long as we're getting all philosophical, the universe doesn't have a particular need for humanity. Or to paraphrase George Carlin: "Save the planet? You mean save the people! The earth will just shake us off like a bad case of fleas. The earth is fine." I always look at this hobby through the lens of consumerism. Audiophilia can't be more virtuous than consumerism, because it is consumerism. The HiFi hobby has a substantial DIY and modding component to it, along with tweaking, trying out different combinations of gear, sharing great music we’ve come across, and various other activities that aren’t about just passively buying stuff. All of which make it a hobby, and a bit more than just consumerism in my opinion. 4est and Iving 2 System (i): Stack Audio Link > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Hana SL/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > PrimaLuna Evo 100 amp > Klipsch RP-600M/REL T5x subs System (ii): Allo USB Signature > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > APPJ EL34 > Tandy LX5/REL Tzero v3 subs System (iii) KEF LS50W/KEF R400b subs Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 39 minutes ago, Richard Dale said: The HiFi hobby has a substantial DIY and modding component to it, along with tweaking, trying out different combinations of gear, sharing great music we’ve come across, and various other activities that aren’t about just passively buying stuff. All of which make it a hobby, and a bit more than just consumerism in my opinion. Hi Richard I'm sure we agree that unless you're making the music yourself, that music consumption is by definition a consumer activity. DIY is a very small percentage of the overall audiophile market. And lastly, I'll say that your arrival in this forum was precipitated my what I call your "Nikita Khrushchev moment" at, wait for it, an audiophile consumer trade show. I'm not trying to disparage audiophilia, but I don't think grandiosity helps the cause IMHO. Teresa 1 Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted January 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2020 For many audiophiles the hobby is about the journey as well as the destination. It’s also about feeding the soul after a rough day or week. To me it’s much more than many make it out to be. Sure, I know a couple “rich” guys with five Patricia Barber CDs and $250,000 systems. But, let’s not let the tail wag the dog. The vast majority, in my experience, love the journey and destination and get so much out of listening to music. Confused, Teresa, Iving and 1 other 4 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Solstice380 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 We get bored and we want to try something new. Is that consumerism? Maybe our First World consumerism feeds into that, but I think we all start because of what Chris said. The Computer Audiophile 1 https://audiophilestyle.com/profile/21384-solstice380/?tab=field_core_pfield_3 Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said: For many audiophiles the hobby is about the journey as well as the destination. It’s also about feeding the soul after a rough day or week. To me it’s much more than many make it out to be. Sure, I know a couple “rich” guys with five Patricia Barber CDs and $250,000 systems. But, let’s not let the tail wag the dog. The vast majority, in my experience, love the journey and destination and get so much out of listening to music. Perhaps this is part of the "subjectivist/objectivist" schism. I consume music during every part of my day. In the shower, on the way to work, at work, on the way home, at home, and I even have a bedside headphone rig. Would all the gear that I use to consume music pass audiophile muster? Probably not. But to me, it's inescapable that consumption of music and the acquisition of gear is a rather pure form of consumerism. How old is your oldest DAC Chris and how many do you have? I'm asking that question because I kind of know the answer, but I think the answer will bolster my position. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: How old is your oldest DAC Chris and how many do you have? I'm asking that question because I kind of know the answer, but I think the answer will bolster my position. I purchased a PS Audio DAC around 2008 and purchased the original Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC around 2009. Total number of DACs is probably around 5. This doesn’t include the DACs coming in / going out for review. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Just now, The Computer Audiophile said: Total number of DACs is probably around 5. You're not sure how many DACs you have? 🙂 Solstice380 1 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: You're not sure how many DACs you have? 🙂 I’m at the Subaru dealer getting a recall on my Impreza fixed. My situation is a bit different in that I have much more gear here than a normal person, due to my job. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I’m at the Subaru dealer getting a recall on my Impreza fixed. My situation is a bit different in that I have much more gear here than a normal person, due to my job. Fair enough. But perhaps we agree that you're even more of a consumer than most? Link to comment
Popular Post charlesphoto Posted January 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2020 My favorite quote recently was from some ASR measurement mafioso who, in putting down the etherRegen, proclaimed "I listen to music, not devices." Hmmm, last I checked every part of an audio chain is a device (and with streaming that now includes the network), unless one is constantly inviting thousands of musicians over to their home to play. And even then many of them would be playing through devices - many of which are un-measured. What a strange conceit this whole you can't enjoy the music because you care about the gear is. Jeff_N and The Computer Audiophile 2 SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)> LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 53 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: I consume music during every part of my day. In the shower, on the way to work, at work, on the way home, at home, and I even have a bedside headphone rig. 29 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: But perhaps we agree that you're even more of a consumer than most? You may have more "systems" than me, based on your previous quote about how often and where you listen. I'm really not sure what you're getting at with this consumer / consumerism discussion. I'd love to be educated a bit about what you're getting at. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Solstice380 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I'd love to be educated a bit about what you're getting at. General cynicism? LOL https://audiophilestyle.com/profile/21384-solstice380/?tab=field_core_pfield_3 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Solstice380 said: General cynicism? LOL That's what it seems to me, but I want to ask so I can fully understand before I conclude anything. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
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