The problem with subjective impressions

[mansr]

Just now, Richard Dale said:

I would prefer new and better octopi.

Maybe there'll be octopeople.

[seeteeyou]

25 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Put another way, if all the bugs die, all the people die. If all the people die, all the bugs will be just fine :~)

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/World-Without-Us-Alan-Weisman-ebook/dp/B000U20486

 

Nuclear power plants and spent fuel pools, it's gonna be mighty interesting to watch survival of the fittest after we're gone because of such radioactive half-life.

[Norton]

12 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

I would prefer new and better octopi.

As seafood or our galactic overlords?  In view of the possibility of the latter, I refrain from the former.  IMHO not a good  look to have to admit to the octopoid  invaders that you’ve been chowing down on their relations.

[Richard Dale]

1 minute ago, Norton said:

As seafood or our new galactic overlords?  In view of the possibility of the latter, I refrain from the former.  IMHO not a good  look to have to admit to the octopoid  invaders that you’ve been chowing down on their relations.

I’m assuming the bi-peds screwed up and therefore don’t really deserve a reprise. In the grand scheme of things I don’t think nature cares about who ate who. Octopus intelligence has evolved along completely different lines from humans and it seems only fair they should be given a shot to evolve their equivalent of language and writing systems (squid ink based?) and whatnot. 

[Solstice380]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

 

Well, I upgrade every 20 years so you got me with that quote.

 

 

 

You must not listen to powerful enough music!

[Solstice380]

1 hour ago, Summit said:

 

If we lose a lot of organisms and if many ecosystem would decline or collapse the humans and our society will be affected negatively as a result.

 

There is also a lot of fluff in the whole ecosystem.  Just like with humans, not everything in nature worked out well.

[Solstice380]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I'm glad you found some information that you like and that suits your needs. 

 

Who actually believes that they can decide the perfect component to purchase form reviews??? OK, if a lot of negatives then you may have something to "not" go for.  There is no way that another person's impression, whose tastes you really don't know, should influence you.  I'm not that easily lead.  Problem is that there is no way short of a long car / plane trip to audition equipment.  Not to mention if it is only sold on the web.  That's a conundrum. 

[Solstice380]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Put another way, if all the bugs die, all the people die. If all the people die, all the bugs will be just fine :~)

 

Yeah, that's the way the food chain works!  LOL

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Who actually believes that they can decide the perfect component to purchase form reviews??? OK, if a lot of negatives then you may have something to "not" go for.  There is no way that another person's impression, whose tastes you really don't know, should influence you.  I'm not that easily lead.  Problem is that there is no way short of a long car / plane trip to audition equipment.  Not to mention if it is only sold on the web.  That's a conundrum. 

This is interesting. You can use a group of negative reviews but not positive reviews? Care to square that?

[Solstice380]

29 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

given a shot to evolve their equivalent of language and writing systems

 

Haven't they had eons already and didn't?

[Solstice380]

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This is interesting. You can use a group of negative reviews but not positive reviews? Care to square that?

 

Expectation bias on the part of the reviewer.  Nobody WANTS to do a negative review so if it out there the product must really be bad.  It takes forever to prove a theory right and one negative instance to prove it wrong.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Expectation bias. (?)

Doesn't that go both ways?

[Richard Dale]

1 minute ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Haven't they had eons already and didn't?

You could have said that about the bipeds until very recently, less than 500k to 100k years or so.

[Solstice380]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

Doesn't that go both ways?

 

3 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Expectation bias on the part of the reviewer.  Nobody WANTS to do a negative review so if it out there the product must really be bad.  It takes forever to prove a theory right and one negative instance to prove it wrong.

 

See new edit.  You are fast with that mouse!

[Solstice380]

Just now, Richard Dale said:

You could have said that about the bipeds until very recently, less than 500k to 100k years or so.

 

No where near as long as those squiggly things have been around.  So they aren't evolving very fast.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, Solstice380 said:

 

 

See new edit.  You are fast with that mouse!

I hear ya.

 

I like reviews that can tell me something like "the volume control on the remote is really slow" or "when switching sample rates the unit pops very loud" etc... Makes it easy to use the review for my own benefit not just entertainment. 

 

 

[esldude]

8 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Your whole post is good. I think that this (quoted) is always going to be a personal thing, as you say.  How do you gauge the value of an incremental improvement to someone other than yourself?  Hell, I wrestle with myself all the time over that one!  I LOVE the sound of my system as it is - best I've ever had in my life since I dove into this rabbit hole buying good equipment starting in the early 80s.  The incremental for me would cost huuuuge money but for someone else starting out it may not.  And my gains will, most likely, be less than theirs.

 

I used to (somewhat) jokingly say:  The universe is 100% physics and 100% personal preference.  Respect both!

You are confusing some things here.  The value of a difference is one thing, and the magnitude of a difference is another.  And keeping that in mind would go a long way to help with sound descriptions. 

 

As a for instance: I very much valued panel speakers because they don't have boomy bass.  I hate boomy bass.  Loose bass, uncontrolled under-damped bass.  It sounds like it muffles the music to me.  I don't like even a little tiny bit of it.

 

Now were I a reviewer I could listen to a speaker, describe the bass as just noticeable as being a bit under-damped, a bit boomy.  Nothing terrible just a little too much in the low end.  Now to me as someone who hates boomy bass I'd mark it right off the list, but to those whom this isn't a big issue, it probably is just fine.  As the speaker sounds very good everywhere else. 

 

Or on another speaker I could describe the bass as being very over blown, under-damped a large noticeable difference.  I'd suggest you won't like it so loose is the low end of this speaker. 

 

If one is careful, you can separate value from description if you try. 

 

I remember in literature class being told that a review of a play or movie or book that says only I like it or I didn't like it you have a useless review.  A review should describe the item reviewed.  An excellent review won't even need a like don't like phrase attached to it.

 

I'd say early Stereophile and TAS reviews are good examples.  Somewhere along the way too many audio reviews seem to think the primary purpose was to get to the I like it/I don't like it conclusion.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, esldude said:

If one is careful, you can separate value from description if you try. 

Value is like beauty, in the eye or wallet of the beholder. 

[Richard Dale]

1 minute ago, Solstice380 said:

 

No where near as long as those squiggly things have been around.  So they aren't evolving very fast.

We had been busily evolving for a long time, not just the 500k years or less when we came up with language, and then much more recently (less than 10k years) when we came up with writing systems.

[Solstice380]

1 minute ago, esldude said:

If one is careful, you can separate value from description if you try. 

 

One man's trash is another man's treasure.  Nobody can determine the value for you, that's up to you.  And there really isn't any way to measure the magnitude of these differences.  So reviews of anything other than functionality and whether or not it hurt the reviewers ears are useless.

[esldude]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Value is like beauty, in the eye or wallet of the beholder. 

Which is why good reviews tend to avoid that.  You would need to touch upon it at some point in regards to cost vs performance although one can do a good review leaving even that out.

[esldude]

1 minute ago, Solstice380 said:

 

One man's trash is another man's treasure.  Nobody can determine the value for you, that's up to you.  And there really isn't any way to measure the magnitude of these differences.  So reviews of anything other than functionality and whether or not it hurt the reviewers ears are useless.

I don't agree at all past your second sentence.  Any reviews for which that is true are not worth the time it took to write them.

[Solstice380]

Just now, esldude said:

I don't agree at all past your second sentence.  Any reviews for which that is true are not worth the time it took to write them.

 

Okay, we agree to disagree on this one. 🙂  Can a reviewer truly determine the value of something for you?  i don't think you really mean it that way do you?  You seem an independent sort who proves things to themselves.  Your posts may just read that way.  

[Ralf11]

A reviewer can truly determine the value of something for you iff they know all the factor loading scores that you have.

[marce]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I was just thinking about this a bit more. Perhaps the reason so many of us like to upgrade or make changes is because of the power of music. We want something more and are willing to try things, sometimes non-sensical things, to get there. And, the journey can be fun. 

 

I know it sounds a bit like chasing the dragon, but this is completely voluntary and enjoyable for so may of us. 

Or pick up an instrument and really start getting into music...  Since I started playing the Bass again my musical horizon has widened to extremes that before I would not have considered and as my education and ear improves, its interesting to hear the same sequences in many forms of music. I tend to listen more technical in a way, but still get caught up in the emotion, more so if I'm playing along and nail it, the tears can flow and emotions run high.