UpTone EtherRegen measured. It's a switch.

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, plissken said:

it's not capable of doing anything more than a typical $60 switch.

That is incorrect. It also functions as a space heater.

[mansr]

8 minutes ago, Thuaveta said:

What's going on here

Is an army of straw men. Pass the kerosene, would you?

[mansr]

6 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

So what do all those measurements have in common?  The DAC. And what would happen if the noise we’re measuring all came from the DAC...remember the DAC is an active device.   All the measurements would be the same, identical. Which they are. So, either I’m missing something important due to my ignorance and I’m happy to get technical input in that regard, or the test is flawed.

The measured noise is of course (largely) created by the DAC. That is entirely expected. What the test shows is that the output of the DAC is not influenced by the choice of Ethernet switch. Even if the switches do something differently, the DAC doesn't care. So why pay 10x more for no change in outcome?

[mansr]

31 minutes ago, thyname said:

This thread is clearly a coordinated attack against a small US based company from a handful of people. An attack that started at ASR forums months before the EtherRegen was launched. Same handful of people, in multiple sites and forums. Why these people, especially Mark Brown (aka Plissken here aka Jinjuku at ASR), are trying the proverbial “burn to the ground” strategy against UpTone, is beyond my understanding. Such switches have been around for a while now (SOtM, Melco, AQVOX), some much more expensive than EtherRegen, and yet, they are not attacking these guys, at least not with this ferocity. Perhaps @Superdad should look at some legal help here, to maybe discover the hidden competitors driven motives of such attacks?

The real question is why Alex/Superdad is so deeply afraid of anyone discussing measured technical performance of his trinkets. Perhaps he is the one hiding something.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, LowMidHigh said:

Alex is at John's mercy when it comes to measurements, and John is both extremely busy and  doesn't view proving the supremacy of his designs paramount

That's a downright bizarre stance for a designer.

[mansr]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Using industry standard tests is a way for everyone on Earth, who doesn't have the knowledge to pick apart someone's testing methodology, to evaluate the efficacy of the results.

The measurements taken by Amir are more or less standard in assessing the the performance of audio equipment. In this particular instance, he didn't run a full battery of tests. I don't know why, but the omitted ones cover areas I'd deem least likely to be affected by the switch.

 

For networking equipment, there are extensive test protocols to validate conformance to the IEEE 802.11 standard (Ethernet). I guess you might call those "industry standard." Amir did not test the ER in this manner. Why? Most likely because the properties attributed to the device are not "industry standard," so a standard test could neither confirm nor refute the claims.

 

16 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Also, those who appear to completely understand everything there is to know, tend to agree with him on almost everything. This raises an issue of bias.

If the assembled experts all agree, why is that "bias"? Is it not at least as likely that they simply are right, what with being experts and all?

[mansr]

18 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

When I say bias, I don't man it in a way that says 2+2=4 for you but not laymen. I mean it in a way where the experts in any field can look at measurements and understand where they can be misleading and they understand how to drum up results that appear to show something major, but in reality it doesn't matter. To the layman THD+N on a spec sheet was as good as gold. To the expert it meant nothing. The experts don't have to let the laymen in on the THD+N joke.

Are you brave enough to break ranks and explain the THD+N joke to a non-expert like myself?

 

18 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The same goes for this testing. I'm sure there are many holes that laymen don't see, but I don't believe those who are out to get UpTone would ever mention them. 

The fact that I find some amusement in laughing at their products doesn't mean I'm out to "get" them.

 

9 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You will never see Amir measure  a current production Berkeley Audio Design product, compare it to a $100 DAC that measures equally as good, and excoriate Berkeley Audio Design. It won't happen. Those who admire his work should ask him why he is playing favorites, publishing results that only effect people that aren't in his inner circle.

Just as you are suddenly very protective of your advertiser.

[mansr]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'm not sure what facts I can reveal, but people can put some of the dots together by looking at the evidence that's public. If your company helps Amir make money your products won't be talked about in the same vein and won't have a subjective slime wrapped around the measurements. 

 

Seriously, start by asking him why he hasn't measured the Berkeley Audio Design current production products and compared them to his list of inexpensive products. He certainly has access to the products. He was and still may be a dealer for them. He is friends with Michael Ritter from way back in the Pacific Microsonics / Microsoft acquisition days. 

 

Ever wonder why he is a big supporter of MQA? The dots are there to be connected. They revolve around money and friendships. 

 

Why does this matter? Because it's the tip of the iceberg and oozes into everything done over there. 

I have no doubt Amir is as slimy as they get in this regard. He did work for Microsoft, after all. It is still a false conclusion that all his tests are flawed, rigged, or otherwise suspect. Can you point to a test he has published where there is significant deviation compared to the same products tested by others? That would be the smoking gun you seek. His business (and personal) relationships may influence which products he chooses to test, but I have yet to see any evidence that he is dishonest in the reports he does publish.

[mansr]

5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I don't really remember the days (as I young and didn't follow this stuff), but back in the day it's my understanding that THD+N became a great marketing tool. Manufacturers would to whatever it took to get the lowest THD+N. If that mean cranking up negative feedback beyond recommended levels, so be it. Laymen had no clue what was going on.

Regular consumers are often victims of numbers races, be it megapixels, gigahertz, or decibels, and you are quite correct in that the THD+N figure can be gamed. That said, I am still lost as to what this has to do with Ethernet switches.

[mansr]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

It's very relevant because whenever numbers and measurements are involved, those with the knowledge are at an advantage over laymen. Laymen have no idea if there are games being played with this measurement or its results.

For whatever it's worth, I don't seen any signs of gameplay here.

[mansr]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I gave you some facts that you ignored. Not even close to conspiracy theories. 

 

You seem to be in the THD+N crowd. All measurements exist in a vacuum and must be taken at face value. The world is black and white. This isn't a personal attack, just an observation that you can help backup or refute. 

Let's try an analogy (and invoke Godwin's law):

1. The Nazis invented rockets.

2. The Nazis were evil.

3. Therefore, rockets do not work.

[mansr]

33 minutes ago, Jud said:

Beyond the measurements there's a fair amount of unconfirmed innuendo regarding EMI radiation of an item that is labeled as being within acceptable parameters in that regard

The power supply (from a Chinese OEM) is certified and labeled. The main unit is neither.

[mansr]

3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Do you give any credence to the argument that the measurements should have been made with music playing?

None whatsoever. Purpose-designed test signals give much more informative results.

[mansr]

29 minutes ago, Indydan said:

Amir, Plissken and mansr all have a huge hate boner against Uptone Audio. It's just incredible, the time and effort they spend to attack this company.

You must have missed my arguments with Gordon Rankin.

[mansr]

5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Your bias seems to cause you to take his measurements at face value.

Absent evidence of flaws in his test setup or other measurements showing a different outcome, taking Amir's results at face value is the unbiased thing to do. Dismissing measurements solely because of who published them is the very definition of bias, and you are the one guilty of it.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Everyone has bias. Accepting anything on blind faith is a recipe for disaster. 

Who said anything about blind faith?

 

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

If you don't see flaws, it shouldn't then follow that there aren't any and that the conclusions are 100% valid. 

If I don't see flaws, it's possible I've overlooked something. If nobody can point out any concrete flaws (hand-waving doesn't count), the methodology was in all likelihood reasonably good. That is the situation here. Tell me what was wrong with the procedure, or show me someone who can.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

the fact that this test used the most convoluted signal path imaginable (when a much more simple one with less variables could've also been tested)

Please outline how you'd like a test setup to look.