Innuos PhoenixUSB

[ConcreteCow]

1 minute ago, Koso said:

Phoenix USB arrived today. Starting burn in. Will report my findings after one - two weeks. Also will do the comparison with another reclockers (Ideon 3R Master time and Denafrips Gaia). Stay tuned.

Excellent… this will be good to hear from another member. I did this comparison, Phoenix/3R, a while ago so I’m looking forward to your thoughts as well. I’m particularly interested with your comparison with the Gaia as this is one unit I almost pressed the button on recently. Can you give your thoughts on the 3R/Gaia please? Many thanks.

[Koso]

15 minutes ago, ConcreteCow said:

Excellent… this will be good to hear from another member. I did this comparison, Phoenix/3R, a while ago so I’m looking forward to your thoughts as well. I’m particularly interested with your comparison with the Gaia as this is one unit I almost pressed the button on recently. Can you give your thoughts on the 3R/Gaia please? Many thanks.

In my setup Gaia is best reclocker so far. To be honest I was little bit disappointed with 3R reclocker. It sounds good, but in my setup Gaia sounds better. 3R is very smooth sounding, adding sort of calmness to the sound, but maybe the result is too calm, too smooth. Bass is bigger, goes lower with 3R, but lacks control. Gaia has more balanced sound, smooth, but not too smooth, bass has less volume, but better controlled. Gaia adds more air, everything is more natural.

[ConcreteCow]

7 minutes ago, Koso said:

In my setup Gaia is best reclocker so far. To be honest I was little bit disappointed with 3R reclocker. It sounds good, but in my setup Gaia sounds better. 3R is very smooth sounding, adding sort of calmness to the sound, but maybe the result is too calm, too smooth. Bass is bigger, goes lower with 3R, but lacks control. Gaia has more balanced sound, smooth, but not too smooth, bass has less volume, but better controlled. Gaia adds more air, everything is more natural.

Thank you for your detailed reply. This is what I expected to hear really. So, which do you think, an AES/EBU XLR or Coax out of the Gaia in to the Chord DAVE? 

[Gavin1977]

37 minutes ago, Koso said:

Phoenix USB arrived today. Starting burn in. Will report my findings after one - two weeks. Also will do the comparison with another reclockers (Ideon 3R Master time and Denafrips Gaia). Stay tuned.

Great news - I've also been hoping someone would do this!  Looking forward to it.

 

You must try daisy chaining DDC's as well!

[Koso]

2 minutes ago, ConcreteCow said:

Thank you for your detailed reply. This is what I expected to hear really. So, which do you think, an AES/EBU XLR or Coax out of the Gaia in to the Chord DAVE? 

AES/EBU out from Gaia is fantastic. In par with I2S. Coax is also good, but in my setup (and tested on three different DACs) AES/EBU is golden standard with Gaia. From my experience AES/EBU has another advantage, it is far less sensitive to cabling. Any decent AES XLR cable sound very good, no need to invest in expensive cable (as for example USB cable needs for good results).

[Koso]

5 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

Great news - I've also been hoping someone would do this!  Looking forward to it.

 

You must try daisy chaining DDC's as well!

Planning to do so with Phoenix! I did this daisy chain: Aurender streamer - 3R Master time - Gaia. Resulting in almost the same sound as with Gaia alone. Small change was audible, almost negligible.

[Gavin1977]

Shame you don't have a a Singxer SU-6 at the same time - apparently it's the top measuring DDC at present, even better than Gaia.

 

https://goldensound.audio/2021/08/01/singxer-su6-measurements/

 

 

[nvitorino]

3 hours ago, Koso said:

Phoenix USB arrived today. Starting burn in. Will report my findings after one - two weeks. Also will do the comparison with another reclockers (Ideon 3R Master time and Denafrips Gaia). Stay tuned.

 

Hi Koso,

 

Thank you for getting one of our PhoenixUSB reclockers. However, the PhoenixUSB is a bit different to the Denafrips Gaia. The Gaia is a DDC converting USB to other outputs. It works at the audio signal. The PhoenixUSB does not work at the audio signal level but rather at the USB protocol level. In fact, you can use the PhoenixUSB between your source and the Gaia and this should provide you with improved sound quality than the Gaia alone. Try both ways and let us know what you prefer.

 

Best,

 

Nuno

[Koso]

1 hour ago, nvitorino said:

 

Hi Koso,

 

Thank you for getting one of our PhoenixUSB reclockers. However, the PhoenixUSB is a bit different to the Denafrips Gaia. The Gaia is a DDC converting USB to other outputs. It works at the audio signal. The PhoenixUSB does not work at the audio signal level but rather at the USB protocol level. In fact, you can use the PhoenixUSB between your source and the Gaia and this should provide you with improved sound quality than the Gaia alone. Try both ways and let us know what you prefer.

 

Best,

 

Nuno

Thanks for comment. Of course, I do know difference between the two. It was bit simplified to compare pure USB reclocker and DDC with no usb output. But from what I have read in many reviews I do believe Phoenix is best USB reclocker for my needs, and ofcourse I will report my comparison and review here!

[Koso]

Has anyone tried aftermarket audiohile fuse in Phoenix? What is fuse rating for PhoenixUSB?

[Blackmorec]

Here you go

 

https://innuos.com/kb/replacing-the-fuse-on-innuos-products/

 

I would be interested in your feedback on whether replacing the fuse brought a significant improvement in SQ. Please pay special attention to Pace, Rhythm and Timing. (PR&T)  as this seems to be a sensitive area when it comes to different fuses. 

[Koso]

22 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Here you go

 

https://innuos.com/kb/replacing-the-fuse-on-innuos-products/

 

I would be interested in your feedback on whether replacing the fuse brought a significant improvement in SQ. Please pay special attention to Pace, Rhythm and Timing. (PR&T)  as this seems to be a sensitive area when it comes to different fuses. 

Thanks! I do have experience with aftermarket fuses, especially HIFI Tuning and Synergistic research. Most fuses in my setup are RS Orange right now. Problem is taht in each device it has different magnitude of impact. Biggest sound improvement was SR Orange in my Moon 600i amp...

Anyway, going to purchase SR Orange or maybe Purple soon (not decided yet which one).

[Koso]

-

[Koso]

Just installed SR Purple fuse and brand new Shunyata Alpha USB cable (right now Alpha is on input and Stealth USB cable on output side, will try swap them too). Will report my findings in few weeks after cable, fuse and PhoenixUSB itself will be burned in.

[Billy_SP]

Thank you for your willingness to share.  I am sure I'm not the only one super curious about your opinions results regarding the Phoenix USB, the DDC, the cable and the fuse changes.

[Gavin1977]

I have a Singxer SU-6 on the way, so will also be able to add my thoughts on this shortly.

[ASRMichael]

Does anyone know if Phoenix uses USB 3.0 or 2.0? 

[Dev]

looking at the back, apparently both input and output looks to be 2.0. The 3.0 should use blue tabs in the connector as per spec.

[Gavin1977]

On 3/14/2022 at 6:23 PM, Gavin1977 said:

Shame you don't have a a Singxer SU-6 at the same time - apparently it's the top measuring DDC at present, even better than Gaia.

 

https://goldensound.audio/2021/08/01/singxer-su6-measurements/

 

 

 

I purchased a Singxer SU-6, and compared it to my matrix audio xspdif-2 (which was recommended to me at the time as being one of the best).  Not a night and day difference, but the SU-6 is in the lead.
 

SU-6 has a quieter background, seems to provide higher contrast.  More detail - particularly noticeable are some background details and the sound of drum sticks striking each other is easier to discern which was not as readily apparent before probably due to the improved onboard clock.

 

Matrix xspdif-2 is is slightly warmer sounding because it’s more homogenous in its presentation, and lacks a smidge of detail comparatively speaking.  It’s knack of presenting the music more as a whole is attractive though, as it gives it more jive.  For me through the increased realism afforded by the SU-6 means it come out trumps.  For me, if I wish, I can add colour or more body to the cleaner and more detailed signal coming from the SU-6, and  my DAC, at the preamp stage (tubes in my case).  I’d rather not take anything away prior and allow maximum musical information to pass.

 

I do however think on this one your decision should be made on budget, if you want the very best then the SU-6 is the one to go for, the delta in performance and additional outputs are worth the difference vs the xspdif-2 making it the DDC of choice.

 

The technical measurements as laid out by @GoldenOne are certainly borne out in listening.

 

One quirk I noticed was that swapping USB inputs can cause the Singxer to lose USB lock, when this does occasionally happen it doesn’t allow for quick change overs because to reset the unit you need to wait for the super cap to empty.  A minor quibble on an otherwise flawless technical performance.

 

Same principles apply as before, quality of USB into DDC makes a difference (use high quality USB, or OptoDX) - using motherboard USB compared to JCAT USB XE does round off the presentation, with a loss of detail and dynamic range and adds some greyness to the pitch black background.  It’s not a huge jump, only in the single digit percentages, but it is noticeable.

[beautiful music]

On 3/22/2022 at 10:15 PM, Koso said:

Just installed SR Purple fuse and brand new Shunyata Alpha USB cable (right now Alpha is on input and Stealth USB cable on output side, will try swap them too). Will report my findings in few weeks after cable, fuse and PhoenixUSB itself will be burned in.

Do you have a new thing you would like to say?

[Koso]

2 hours ago, beautiful music said:

Do you have a new thing you would like to say?

Yes, few things. First of all, adding SR Purple fuse was immediate sound improvement. I can only recommend this fuse, especially for digital devices. And mentioned usb cables are great also. Especially Stealth usb cables are great. After many swaps and tests I ended by initial setup - Shunyata Alpha on input and Stealth on output side of Phoenix.

 

[beautiful music]

58 minutes ago, Koso said:

Yes, few things. First of all, adding SR Purple fuse was immediate sound improvement. I can only recommend this fuse, especially for digital devices. And mentioned usb cables are great also. Especially Stealth usb cables are great. After many swaps and tests I ended by initial setup - Shunyata Alpha on input and Stealth on output side of Phoenix.

 

So are you end up letting Gaia go or am I missing thing?

[Koso]

17 minutes ago, beautiful music said:

So are you end up letting Gaia go or am I missing thing?

Yes, that's the plan. PhoenixUSB is doing magic in my setup. 

[M_audio]

@Koso did you happen to test Phoenix USB with Gaia afterwards? I have Phoenix USB and afterwards a small but stylish USB->TosLink converter, so i am thinking about putting Gaia there instead to do the job.

Also are you keeping/recommending the SR Purple fuse in Phoenix?

[Koso]

1 hour ago, M_audio said:

@Koso did you happen to test Phoenix USB with Gaia afterwards? I have Phoenix USB and afterwards a small but stylish USB->TosLink converter, so i am thinking about putting Gaia there instead to do the job.

Also are you keeping/recommending the SR Purple fuse in Phoenix?

Depends on your DAC and quality of inputs. Which input is best in my DAC? Thats the question you should ask yourself first. In my case DAC Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE has excellent USB input. PhoenixUSB was able to uplift already good USB input (or streamer output for that case, depends on how you look at usb reclocker) into even higher sonic quality. I have tested several additional DDC to add between PhoenixUSB and Spring DAC using I2S or AES/EBU input. I have tested Matrix Audio Spdif 2, Matrix Audio Spdif 3, Holo Audio Red and Denafrips Gaia. All those DDC units are great in its price point, Gaia being the best overall. But IN MY SETUP none of these are better sounding than Innuos PhoenixUSB + Spring 3 usb input. I have also tested all DDCs without PhoenixUSB. Adding Phoenix USB was always little bit better sounding, but anyway, in all cases the basic sound signature was more or less overwritten by character of tested DDC. So in my case I am not using DDC in main setup right now. In setup where DAC has best input other than USB (which is probably the case with most DACs) the situation could be different and I would strongly advice to test DDC, or USB reclocker + DDC, especially when I2S dac input is the option.

 

To your second question. SR Purple fuse in PhoenixUSB is keeper! Coincidentally it looks like Purple fuse has biggest impact (meaning audible sound quality improvement) on PhoenixUSB out of all my gear. And I have Purple fuses in all devices right now. In Aurender streamer, Spring DAC and Moon amp. SR fuses has different magnitude of SQ impact in different gear, even if all audible and all for good. Replacing fuse inside PhoenixUSB with Purple (3,15 Amp.) had immediate and very audible positive effect, which has improved after burn in period even further. By the way, I have just added PhoenixNET to my setup and I am definitely purchasing Purple fuse for it. So yes, highly recommended!