The Environmental thread + Conventional (HI-FI) wisdom is almost always invariably wrong

[Paul R]

How would a log cabin on a couple wooded acres rate? Off the grid living is getting big here, with power being the big thing. Mostly power for refrigeration and a Freezer.

[4est]

3 hours ago, Paul R said:

How would a log cabin on a couple wooded acres rate? Off the grid living is getting big here, with power being the big thing. Mostly power for refrigeration and a Freezer.

Getting big? I'd agree that there are people that are doing so as well as building tiny houses, but statistically I do not see this as a notable percentage of the population, but that of a few outliers. Perhaps I am wrong?

[semente]

6 hours ago, esldude said:

This is life or such is life is how I understood it.  And the phrase is the feeling along the lines of such is life and nothing I could do about it. 

 

So seems things are more complex than need be in Europe, and Europeans I'd assume feel differently since it is that way.  So that is how it is in Europe and nothing I could do (or should do) about it.  If Europeans don't like the governmental complexity  ??????  Maybe that is why some of the recent elections went how they did.  Or maybe it is just fad and fashion in politics. 

I don't think that the rise of populism has much to do with bureaucracy but with the despair of a poorly educated and increasingly poorer, evergrowing slice of the population.

In my view this is the result of a profit-driven greedy consumer society run by ultra-liberal corrupt professional politicians who take seat as a way of rising in society and getting rich instead of serving their constituents.

[Paul R]

3 hours ago, 4est said:

Getting big? I'd agree that there are people that are doing so as well as building tiny houses, but statistically I do not see this as a notable percentage of the population, but that of a few outliers. Perhaps I am wrong?

 

Not wrong, but growing pretty big time. A lot of folks have systems like this now, and they are getting better and better. 

 

[Paul R]

9 hours ago, esldude said:

This is life or such is life is how I understood it.  And the phrase is the feeling along the lines of such is life and nothing I could do about it. 

 

So seems things are more complex than need be in Europe, and Europeans I'd assume feel differently since it is that way.  So that is how it is in Europe and nothing I could do (or should do) about it.  If Europeans don't like the governmental complexity  ??????  Maybe that is why some of the recent elections went how they did.  Or maybe it is just fad and fashion in politics. 

 

Literally, “It is life”  - and Americans use it the same way as the French do, we learned it from them after all! ✌️

 

U.S. English transliterations abound. “That’s the way the cookie crumbles” and “That’s the way the ball bounces”  are two of the most popular. It implies a little bit of a fatalistic acceptance that you cannot change what is. Sometimes tragedy, but not in this case. 

 

Perhaps “c’est comme ca” is closer.   In U.S. English,  “It is what it is.” 

 

(And yes, I am working on becoming fluent in French again.  Too much time on my hands.) 🤪

[PeterSt]

24 minutes ago, Paul R said:

Literally, “It is life”

 

No Sir. What I tried to indicate is the small sadness which has to be in it. Might you translate it as "such is life" then in English you are already closer. Here:

https://www.thoughtco.com/cest-la-vie-1371131

"In France, it's still used in the same sense as always, as a sort of restrained, slightly fatalistic lamentation that this is how life is and there's not much you can do about it. "

 

In there, there's the example of someone who just lost his job and who can say (or is being told) c'est la vie.

 

Dennis in the end used it the way as it is intended by means of putting it by myself in a context which goes like:

The American wants to be free and nobody in the world is going to change that. If that means burning a bit too much coal - c'est la vie.

This is negative, or with fatalistic lamentation.

 

"This is life" does not resemble this at all.

Such is life, would (says me with his poor knowledge of the English language).

 

Any more important issues ?

 

 

 

[kumakuma]

 

[PeterSt]

32 minutes ago, Paul R said:

Literally, “It is life”

 

Addendum:

 

No, literally it is This is the life.

 

It is life in French would be "C'est vie".

That translated to English IMO would be "This is life". It wouldn't even be "it is life".

 

Oh, I made a job of missing 100% of French classes before they kicked me out of school all together. I said: no worries, one time there will be internet.

 

 

 

[Paul R]

58 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

No Sir. What I tried to indicate is the small sadness which has to be in it. Might you translate it as "such is life" then in English you are already closer. Here:

https://www.thoughtco.com/cest-la-vie-1371131

"In France, it's still used in the same sense as always, as a sort of restrained, slightly fatalistic lamentation that this is how life is and there's not much you can do about it. "

 

In there, there's the example of someone who just lost his job and who can say (or is being told) c'est la vie.

 

Dennis in the end used it the way as it is intended by means of putting it by myself in a context which goes like:

The American wants to be free and nobody in the world is going to change that. If that means burning a bit too much coal - c'est la vie.

This is negative, or with fatalistic lamentation.

 

"This is life" does not resemble this at all.

Such is life, would (says me with his poor knowledge of the English language).

 

Any more important issues ?

 

 

 

 

I am not sure, but I think the definite article is not used in the translation to English. But yes, you are correct, “It is the life.” I also used “it is” instead of “that is” which is also debatable, but more correct I think. Articles are difficult. 

 

Perhaps a bit of fatalism was implied in Dennis’ usage, in that it is something that cannot be changed. Obviously, I can be wrong there. 😉

 

I think c’est comme ca may be closer to what was actually meant. It is used in the southwest a lot, usually accompanied by a shrug - “It is what it is...”  Kinda leaves what “it” is in a potential state, allowing it to collapse to a specific meaning by context. For example, “That stick is what it is”  - allows the stick to be a walking stick at one time, and perhaps a weapon at another time. 

 

Yeah, this is way off topic, but fun... also shows how easily things can be understood differently!  Especially in written communications where body language is not available and tone is only implied. Is it any wonder that subjects like climate change and high res music are so controversial?  

 

Maybe we should all learn Chinese, which is way more direct and far less subject to misinterpretation. Also how quickly they invent new sayings to fit new situations is just a Duang thing bro! 😁

[Ralf11]

2 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

"In France, it's still used in the same sense as always, as a sort of restrained, slightly fatalistic lamentation that this is how life is and there's not much you can do about it. "

 

 

 

do you have to stub out a Gauloises or a Gitane at the end of the sentence?

[esldude]

22 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

do you have to stub out a Gauloises or a Gitane at the end of the sentence?

Gitane from what I've seen. 

[Paul R]

1 minute ago, esldude said:

Gitane from what I've seen. 

 

Wreck your bicycle in a race?

😉

[esldude]

3 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

No Sir. What I tried to indicate is the small sadness which has to be in it. Might you translate it as "such is life" then in English you are already closer. Here:

https://www.thoughtco.com/cest-la-vie-1371131

"In France, it's still used in the same sense as always, as a sort of restrained, slightly fatalistic lamentation that this is how life is and there's not much you can do about it. "

 

In there, there's the example of someone who just lost his job and who can say (or is being told) c'est la vie.

 

Dennis in the end used it the way as it is intended by means of putting it by myself in a context which goes like:

The American wants to be free and nobody in the world is going to change that. If that means burning a bit too much coal - c'est la vie.

This is negative, or with fatalistic lamentation.

 

"This is life" does not resemble this at all.

Such is life, would (says me with his poor knowledge of the English language).

 

Any more important issues ?

 

 

 

Well implying coal use is going too far for what I had in mind.  What I had in mind was the proper touch of fatalism.  Not in the sense Americans will do what they do and Euro types can suck it.  In the sense that Americans value some freedom and less over-sight in a way that Europeans seem okay with having others make their decisions for them.  Who am I to say either is wrong. 

 

In my case, I used due diligence to find out something important to me.  If someone else doesn't value the energy efficiency then why should they and I pay for a gov't system to make sure everyone has a certificate that most don't care about.  Maybe your answer would be so the world doesn't destroy the environment, but at best the EU certificate system only slows that down a little bit.  The US system isn't ignoring that.  Efficiency in housing is driven by whether or not it saves money and/or makes for a more comfortable house.  

[esldude]

5 minutes ago, Paul R said:

 

Wreck your bicycle in a race?

😉

Had a girlfriend who road a Gitane.  I've seen women who smoked Gitanes.  Never cared for the latter. 

[mansr]

15 minutes ago, esldude said:

In my case, I used due diligence to find out something important to me.  If someone else doesn't value the energy efficiency then why should they and I pay for a gov't system to make sure everyone has a certificate that most don't care about.  Maybe your answer would be so the world doesn't destroy the environment, but at best the EU certificate system only slows that down a little bit.  The US system isn't ignoring that.  Efficiency in housing is driven by whether or not it saves money and/or makes for a more comfortable house. 

The European system ensures (or at least that's the idea) that you can find out, should you care. Nobody forces you to care, and it's legal to sell an inefficient house. As with many things, the energy efficiency ratings system probably doesn't work quite as well as was intended.

[Ralf11]

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/6/5/18650155/climate-change-oregon-carbon-cap-trade-california

[esldude]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/06/04/climate-change-coal-now-more-expensive-than-wind-solar-energy/1277637001/

 

 

https://www.powermag.com/the-power-interview-state-of-the-wind-solar-storage-and-hydro-markets/

 

Good news relatively speaking. 

 

 

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, esldude said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/06/04/climate-change-coal-now-more-expensive-than-wind-solar-energy/1277637001/

 

 

https://www.powermag.com/the-power-interview-state-of-the-wind-solar-storage-and-hydro-markets/

 

Good news relatively speaking. 

 

 

 

 That's still of little comfort to residents of larger cities.

[PeterSt]

12 hours ago, esldude said:

What I had in mind was the proper touch of fatalism.

 

We shouldn't continue on this forever, but fact is - as Paul also said - that it is mighty easy to talk passed each other, just because of a bit of language difference.

 

If you read back on my small print and I add to this today that I started out with explaining that it is dangerous to mis-use that "saying" only the slightest (because of possible mis-interpretation), throughout the post I thought "wait, Dennis surely knows and it is for the purpose of it". I left all the text be because I thought it was funny and also honest. But the one who was actually wrong in the interpretation, was me. Until I got it throughout my posting.

 

But who will understand if he doesn't know the strict prerequisite of "freedom" in the first place ? Any American will understand. A common tourist maybe not even, except when some explicit matters happen and then still it is hard to understand.

I suppose this is also how Trump got the power. Maybe in aftermath no 50 and a bit percent will agree with him/herself, but I can tell you that over here (and probably the rest of the world) 0% understand a. his motives and b. how any single American could like his doings.

Ad a.: OK, motives become more clear when the motives of the American are understood (which of course partly is loaded because of the promise of jobs (and mines )). And you know what ? I personally could agree with it. I am not that "save our world" guy at all. All should be in balance, and jobs are super important.

 

But 0%. That is really not much. It is infinitely smaller than what half of America thinks. The difference is thus also infinite.

I'm sure my math is off, but you get the idea.

[PeterSt]

13 hours ago, esldude said:

Europeans seem okay with having others make their decisions for them.

 

Nothing is farther from the truth. But although I think I know how America is with the strict rule of "being free", I am not able to explain how it works over here. Maybe others can. Point is also: I really don't see how it would change things when we would be like America / Americans. Yeah, a different (elected) government. But this is so indirect and so not-to-envision (because no country due ruling parties exist for it) that we wouldn't be able to see the (due) effect.

Btw, we probably wouldn't even be able to see what has to be changed for real. But agree we do with nothing.  (and I generalize, but am fairly sure I can speak on behalf of everyone).

 

What would change for sure is that all the "nature movements" would disappear and instead highways will be build over the death of 10 marmots. 10 marmots die, one million are not in a traffic queue. 1000 nature activists are proud today and 1 million people lose money and especially time. Long live democrazy.

See ? I suddenly don't belong in this thread.

 

Makes me think of Woodstock. And speaking about the devil ... look what I just found (because I suddenly want to play 3 days of that music): http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/woodstock-50th-anniversary-sets/

Must find my ripper machinery again ...

 

[Ralf11]

11 hours ago, PeterSt said:

marmots....

 

 

 

[esldude]

Super marmots created by climate change?  Not everything is negative about climate change. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/7902923/Climate-change-creating-super-marmots-that-are-bigger-and-more-abundant.html

[Ralf11]

OTOH, it is possible to be too large...

 

 

[esldude]

42 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

OTOH, it is possible to be too large...

 

 

Actually I don't know.  Perhaps the vehicle is too small.  Then we get into larger vehicles increase climate change which increases the size of marmots and maybe there is no solution to the problem you pictured.   Except electric vehicles would have a flat bottom and no where for the marmot to get into quite as easily. 

[Ralf11]

maybe a marmot could access the EV thru the cooling system...