The Environmental thread + Conventional (HI-FI) wisdom is almost always invariably wrong

[semente]

8 minutes ago, esldude said:

Maybe some little girl will come along and guilt trip her in her old age because the world wasn't made perfect by then.

 

Made perfect? The habitat which supports human life is disapeering...

In any case the little girl has probably watched this film:

 

 

[wdw]

13 minutes ago, esldude said:

I find this cloying presentation disgusting and insulting.  Has nothing to do with my opinion of climate change.  

 

Maybe some little girl will come along and guilt trip her in her old age because the world wasn't made perfect by then.  She'll be all to blame for it, right? Yuck. 

 

Maybe she'll read Scott Adams blog and go learn how to build good nuclear power. 

https://www.scottadamssays.com/2019/09/23/a-message-for-children-about-climate-change/

 

 

 

she should be congratulated and praised for her passion, commitment and resolve whereas Scott Adams is a libertarian Trump supporting a$$hole.

[esldude]

Just now, wdw said:

 

she should be congratulated and praised for her passion, commitment and resolve whereas Scott Adams is a libertarian Trump supporting a$$hole.

Don't let your TDS bias you or anything. 

 

I agree with Mr. Adams about nuclear power.  Don't have to agree with his politics. 

[esldude]

6 minutes ago, semente said:

 

Made perfect? The habitat which supports human life is disapeering...

In any case the little girl has probably watched this film:

 

 

 The human habitat was declining before I was born, and will be declining when this little girl dies.  Yet there are people who have made improvements to slow down that decline.  Sure would have been better to do more sooner, but that is how things go.  You don't know that when you are her age.  Saying evidence of what is happening has been available for 30 years and not enough has been done seems very different to a 16 year old than it does a 66 year old.  It takes time to re-orient something as large as the whole world and all of its cultures.  Sometimes you agree with what someone has to say and their way of saying it still disgusts you.  

[charlesphoto]

Greta Thunberg imo is all that CAN be right about the world - Trump the sheer embodiment of all that is wrong. Perhaps it takes a small girl with Asperger's to wake up the narcissists of this world. I applaud her and hope she and others like her never put down the torch.

 

I know I become terribly upset at what my children will witness re climate change just in their lifetime - how do you think they feel? I know old conservative men couldn't give a sh*t about children and their feelings - unless of course they haven't been born yet.  The world needs a Manhattan Project NOW to deal with the mess we've ALL created. She's just telling it like it is and expressing the feelings of her generation. Our generation doesn't care, so why shouldn't hers? And by excoriating or making fun of her,  that's just proving her point all that much more.

[wdw]

30 minutes ago, esldude said:

Don't let your TDS bias you or anything. 

 

I agree with Mr. Adams about nuclear power.  Don't have to agree with his politics. 

 

I also agree with his comment concerning nuclear power but let's be clear that the use of a derogatory term like "TDS" diminishes and trivializes the great harm and damage that your President is doing to your country, economy and standing in the world community.  He is simply treasonous.   

[elcorso]

1 hour ago, esldude said:

I find this cloying presentation disgusting and insulting.  Has nothing to do with my opinion of climate change.  

 

Maybe some little girl will come along and guilt trip her in her old age because the world wasn't made perfect by then.  She'll be all to blame for it, right? Yuck. 

 

Maybe she'll read Scott Adams blog and go learn how to build good nuclear power. 

https://www.scottadamssays.com/2019/09/23/a-message-for-children-about-climate-change/

 

 

 

How dare you Dennis!

 

Maybe you are killing the seed of future Angela Merkel or a ridiculous Emmanuel Macron in a France full of nuclear power plants that supply them with energy.

 

This hysterical girl knows how to exploit human feelings very well and possibly came to the headquarters of the UN swimming, so as not to burn fossil fuel flying in an airplane !!!

 

Roch

[charlesphoto]

"Hysterical?" The only person being hysterical (and exploiting feelings) these days is Trump and his minions. Why is emotion (about an emotional subject at that) from a woman or a child so often branded as hysterical by males? Embarrassing....

[Ralf11]

She is 16 and has Asperger's - cut her a break.

 

 

[wgscott]

You mean we should hold the President of the United States to a higher standard than a 16 yo girl?

 

 

[wgscott]

1 hour ago, elcorso said:

 

How dare you Dennis!

 

Maybe you are killing the seed of future Angela Merkel or a ridiculous Emmanuel Macron in a France full of nuclear power plants that supply them with energy.

 

This hysterical girl knows how to exploit human feelings very well and possibly came to the headquarters of the UN swimming, so as not to burn fossil fuel flying in an airplane !!!

 

Roch

 

You're burning the wrong Amazon.

[elcorso]

5 minutes ago, wgscott said:

 

You're burning the wrong Amazon.

 

You are watching the wrong channel, CNN.

 

May I suggest BBC World?

 

Roch

[wdw]

1 hour ago, elcorso said:

 

You are watching the wrong channel, CNN.

 

May I suggest BBC World?

 

Roch

 

So here we are, a bunch of sad, mean, old men mocking an impassioned young woman...always shocked at the pure cowardice of most men.

[esldude]

2 hours ago, wdw said:

 

So here we are, a bunch of sad, mean, old men mocking an impassioned young woman...always shocked at the pure cowardice of most men.

Who is mocking her, and who is displaying cowardice?

 

Movements use the impassioned young just for someone like you.  As a shield against criticism.   I find it distasteful even as I mostly agree.  Somehow everyone jumps to confusions and talks about being mean in such cases.  Maybe someone will do some video editing and have your favorite prez in a made up video giving the exact same speech.  Maybe then it would make sense to you why I don't like it. 

 

The reason I posted the link to Scott Adams is I think he is onto something about scaring young people.  It was mentioned this lady is 16 and has Asperger's.  In the past two days I've read of other young girls who have been doing similar protesting.  They have joined with the Friday protests though they had activist activities prior to this.  They simply didn't happen upon the public notoriety of Ms. Thunberg.  Both also made a thing of being beset with anxiety and depression issues. (yes I know Asperger's isn't like anxiety and depression) Ms Thunberg says she feels fear everyday and wants adults to panic and act on the crisis.  So she fits with the other activist girls in this.  Panic isn't a good way to deal with important crisis situations. 

 

Now maybe it is just me, but I don't think creating something of a hysteria that makes lots of teenagers anxious in a debilitating way is good for them.  Give them 10 years and they'll be young adults and can do things of more consequence.   I'm not mocking or attacking a young teenager with Asperger's I think she should be more protected rather than used as a pawn politically. 

[wdw]

50 minutes ago, esldude said:

Who is mocking her, and who is displaying cowardice?

 

You.

 

[charlesphoto]

You really don't want to give this young woman the benefit of the doubt do you, esldud? You really think there's some kind of conspiracy here, and that she is a 'pawn.' Nice way to deny her power as an individual. She is terrified, as we all should be, and instead of waiting around for the adults to do something, has vocalized the panic most kids feel these days.

 

Obviously NOT panicking hasn't done shit, so it is time to panic and instill fear. It's human to put off difficult duties, but the time has come to put politics and machismo aside and start doing something. You know it's not the planet that's going to die - it's been here billions of years and will be here at least another billion, even if it's just a hard cold rock with some bacteria. No, it's humans that are going to die in the end. As DJT would say, 'A great beautiful death, or at least I heard from somebody it will be. But what do I know? Might be death, might be life." 

 

[charlesphoto]

Yep. 

[esldude]

25 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

You really don't want to give this young woman the benefit of the doubt do you, esldud? You really think there's some kind of conspiracy here, and that she is a 'pawn.' Nice way to deny her power as an individual. She is terrified, as we all should be, and instead of waiting around for the adults to do something, has vocalized the panic most kids feel these days.

 

Obviously NOT panicking hasn't done shit, so it is time to panic and instill fear. It's human to put off difficult duties, but the time has come to put politics and machismo aside and start doing something. You know it's not the planet that's going to die - it's been here billions of years and will be here at least another billion, even if it's just a hard cold rock with some bacteria. No, it's humans that are going to die in the end. As DJT would say, 'A great beautiful death, or at least I heard from somebody it will be. But what do I know? Might be death, might be life." 

 

I am giving her every benefit of the doubt.  I believe she is telling us the truth about what she believes and feels.  She also is a political pawn even if willing or unaware.  No conspiracy is needed for any of that.  I'll grant her all the individual power she is due as an adult.  And no most kids don't feel the panic she does these days.  Too many do.  Her feeling this panicked fear daily is unhealthy and unwarranted.  

 

If you think trying to solve what is probably the most complex and deadly important problem ever to face humans worldwide is to panic and instill fear I hope you have very little influence over people or say so in the matter.  A healthy concern for and real effort to fix the problem is needed and will require many many years.  Panic is the last thing needed.  It would be deadly to have a majority of a whole generation panic about this. A Manhatten style project for this is one thing, but it isn't panic. 

 

EDIT: oh yeah, not panicking hasn't worked so let us panic.  Or maybe not ignoring it hasn't worked so less ignore it.  Or maybe not starving off people so there is less energy needed hasn't worked so less starve off a few billion to save everyone else.  I'd hope you had the logical capabilities of a 16 year old, but it looks like you are more around an 8 year old.  

[firedog]

5 hours ago, wgscott said:

You mean we should hold the President of the United States to a higher standard than a 16 yo girl?

 

 

He seems to speak and think like a not very mature 11 year old boy in a school yard playground, so holding him to the standard of a well spoken (and not in her native language) 16 year old would seem to be excessive. 

[wdw]

27 minutes ago, esldude said:

I am giving her every benefit of the doubt.  I believe she is telling us the truth about what she believes and feels.  She also is a political pawn even if willing or unaware.  No conspiracy is needed for any of that.  I'll grant her all the individual power she is due as an adult.  And no most kids don't feel the panic she does these days.  Too many do.  Her feeling this panicked fear daily is unhealthy and unwarranted.  

 

If you think trying to solve what is probably the most complex and deadly important problem ever to face humans worldwide is to panic and instill fear I hope you have very little influence over people or say so in the matter.  A healthy concern for and real effort to fix the problem is needed and will require many many years.  Panic is the last thing needed.  It would be deadly to have a majority of a whole generation panic about this. A Manhatten style project for this is one thing, but it isn't panic. 

 

EDIT: oh yeah, not panicking hasn't worked so let us panic.  Or maybe not ignoring it hasn't worked so less ignore it.  Or maybe not starving off people so there is less energy needed hasn't worked so less starve off a few billion to save everyone else.  I'd hope you had the logical capabilities of a 16 year old, but it looks like you are more around an 8 year old.  

 

We should be afraid!

You show up on an audiophile site with a signature and a series of posts showing an attitude suggesting we are all idiots so it is no surprise to me that you are a roughly a climate denier with, what appears to be,  a slavish deference to authority...that is so completely obvious.  

So, please, take your particular malevolence, stuff it, and not use it to abuse this young woman.  

Just mock us, the audiophiles, please.

[charlesphoto]

20 minutes ago, esldude said:

EDIT: oh yeah, not panicking hasn't worked so let us panic.  Or maybe not ignoring it hasn't worked so less ignore it.  Or maybe not starving off people so there is less energy needed hasn't worked so less starve off a few billion to save everyone else.  I'd hope you had the logical capabilities of a 16 year old, but it looks like you are more around an 8 year old.  

 

You used panic so I ran with it; how about grave concern instead? No, panic doesn’t work in here and now, life and death situations, but ‘panic’ for abstract things like this can work as a wake up call.  Look at the freaking weather - you may not be panicking but there sure are a lot of people that are, esp in the Caribbean and Gulf states. And most of them are adults. Perhaps they should just take a more measured approach - maybe pitching a few rolls of paper towels at them will Make Everything Great Again. 

 

And I’d rather be an illogical eight year old than a grown man who’s so full of themselves they feel the need to take down a sixteen year old girl from Sweden on a mission to try and save us from ourselves. 

[esldude]

1 minute ago, wdw said:

 

We should be afraid!

You show up on an audiophile site with a signature and a series of posts showing an attitude suggesting we are all idiots so it is no surprise to me that you are a roughly a climate denier with a, what appears to be,  slavish deference to authority...that is so completely obvious.  

So, please, take your particular malevolence, stuff it, and not use it to abuse this young woman.  Just mock audiophiles, please.

You don't pay attention very well.  You let your quick judgment of a stereotype for who I am blind you to what I've actually posted.  

 

I am not, nor have I ever been a global warming denier.  I don't even like the euphemism of climate change, because it is global warming we are talking about.  You might want to re-think this and actually read what I post without the filters about who you thought I was or what you thought I think. 

 

Global warming caused by human activity it is and a huge problem which we are very late in coming together to deal with.  Yet knowing how things are, I think expecting a complete turn around in so much we do in one generation or so is being blind to the history of humanity.  This kind of quick response was a fairy tale that was never going to happen.  So take that into consideration and do something meaningful and enough with the knee jerk bull shite.   I'm also not one who thinks we should ignore it and continue with business as usual because it is "too big a problem".   And still I'm not happy with using children and creating fear and panic in them.  If global warming causes the problems expected it will cause plenty of problems.  But Greta Thunberg doesn't have good reason to experience panic and fear from now till the end of her days.  Perhaps her grandchildren will have good reason for that.  

 

You can't fix a problem if you approach it unrealistically.  That is why I don't care for how she is being used.  We need some realism and sober assessment of the issue to move forward.  Not some social gimmick of panic in our children growing up.  

[esldude]

5 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

You used panic so I ran with it; how about grave concern instead? No, panic doesn’t work in here and now, life and death situations, but ‘panic’ for abstract things like this can work as a wake up call.  Look at the freaking weather - you may not be panicking but there sure are a lot of people that are, esp in the Caribbean and Gulf states. And most of them are adults. Perhaps they should just take a more measured approach - maybe pitching a few rolls of paper towels at them will Make Everything Great Again. 

 

And I’d rather be an illogical eight year old than a grown man who’s so full of themselves they feel the need to take down a sixteen year old girl from Sweden on a mission to try and save us from ourselves. 

I live in the gulf states area.  The people here have less concern than they should.  You apparently also stereotyped me like wdw did as a climate denier.  I'm not.  And I'm not trying to take down a 16 year old girl.  She should be protected and guided to make a real difference.  Her well expressed genuine fear is another sort of wake up call.  Just not the one you seem to prefer.  Not the one that makes you feel righteous as a grown man based upon the notoriety of a 16 year old girl's fear.  You should feel ashamed she feels this way.  

[semente]

8 hours ago, esldude said:

 The human habitat was declining before I was born, and will be declining when this little girl dies

Would you agree that it's declining massively more rapidly now?

Perhaps the little girl won't live to be 30... Not that this isn't already happening in some areas of the globe.

 

42 minutes ago, esldude said:

And I'm not trying to take down a 16 year old girl.  She should be protected and guided to make a real difference.  Her well expressed genuine fear is another sort of wake up call.  Just not the one you seem to prefer.  Not the one that makes you feel righteous as a grown man based upon the notoriety of a 16 year old girl's fear.  You should feel ashamed she feels this way.

You were the one should guilt trip, not me.

[semente]

55 minutes ago, esldude said:

You can't fix a problem if you approach it unrealistically.  That is why I don't care for how she is being used.  We need some realism and sober assessment of the issue to move forward.  Not some social gimmick of panic in our children growing up. 

 

It was Greta's self-induced panic that triggered the alert.

 

And the fact of the matter is that the problem can only be solved through a change in paradigm, meaning political and economical model.

 

The ultra-liberal free-market consumerist US model of society has to go.

In my lifetime I've never felt such an ideological gulf in the Atlantic as I do now. The US I am sorry to note is no longer leader, no longer the beacon. It's becoming increasingly a sub-developed country with a few pockets of developed nation.