Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[davide256]

Had some issues with Stylus/HQPe v4.34 using Firefox. The HQPlayer web UI would hang/timeout with any change but change would process;

backed out to version 4.30 and  UI behavior went back to normal. Am noticing now that whenever I go to a different browser tab and come back

to Stylus tab, I get the "config changed. reloading" message from HQP even though no change has been made. Anyone else seeing this?

[Smaragdhk]

12 hours ago, davide256 said:

Had some issues with Stylus/HQPe v4.34 using Firefox. The HQPlayer web UI would hang/timeout with any change but change would process;

backed out to version 4.30 and  UI behavior went back to normal. Am noticing now that whenever I go to a different browser tab and come back

to Stylus tab, I get the "config changed. reloading" message from HQP even though no change has been made. Anyone else seeing this?

 

I've seen the "config changed. reloading" message a couple of times as well when going through the settings page and I don't even use HQPlayer... the message even appears without any changes...
 

[fantasia]

Hi guys

 

i am thinking of adding an intel optane M10 32gb os ssd to my self-made euphony V3 music server, which is equipped with a samsung m.2 2tb ssd.

 

So euphony would run separately from the music ssd!

 

The samsung 2tb would then be used for the internal music collection.

 

Is this a good idea to improve the sound?

[davide256]

1 hour ago, fantasia said:

Hi guys

 

i am thinking of adding an intel optane M10 32gb os ssd to my self-made euphony V3 music server, which is equipped with a samsung m.2 2tb ssd.

 

So euphony would run separately from the music ssd!

 

The samsung 2tb would then be used for the internal music collection.

 

Is this a good idea to improve the sound?

The Optane as OS drive should improve sound. With NUC's it always sounded better to use a NAS than internal /USB attached storage

[fantasia]

12 hours ago, davide256 said:

The Optane as OS drive should improve sound. With NUC's it always sounded better to use a NAS than internal /USB attached storage

many thanks for your input.

 

if i understood you correctly, should an external nas sound better than an internal ssd?

 

in terms of network technology, a nas and its audiophile environment is very complex and expensive compared to an internal SSD!

 

therefore not an option.

 

I would be much more interested in how euphony behaves with one or two internal ssds?

[louawalters]

On 3/4/2023 at 12:19 PM, davide256 said:

I often have to reboot both machines when making the change to Stylus /HQPe <> Stylus/NAA. Its much more reliable to boot the NAA end off an NAA image

and that also allows you to use the most current NAA version which does improve SQ. As long as the DAC works in Stylus EP mode all should be fine using

Stylus NAA other than the balky detection.

Same here.   Much better reliability with NAA Image from Holo Red with Euphony OS doing duty running Roon Core + HQPd.   

[davide256]

2 hours ago, fantasia said:

many thanks for your input.

 

if i understood you correctly, should an external nas sound better than an internal ssd?

 

in terms of network technology, a nas and its audiophile environment is very complex and expensive compared to an internal SSD!

 

therefore not an option.

 

I would be much more interested in how euphony behaves with one or two internal ssds?

Your sound will have more harshness and irritants using M.2 or SATA attached SSD vs a NAS. The benefit of using internal storage is

faster library scan/access  and less initial cost. If you are committed to internal M.2 storage Intel 670P is a good choice, faster is not as important

as electrically stable/quiet.

 

Since Stylus uses SMB network file access using a NAS is very easy, can use the basic media server function included

with a NAS. Folks find little difference in performance between NAS competitors for audio SQ, mostly a matter

of how fast a scan completes and throughput.  NAS's are cheaper to grow capacity, trivial audio SQ difference between using SSD

and HD for storage. Over time I've grown mine from 2TB to 10 TB, just by backing up the NAS , swapping in larger drives and restoring

from backup. And there is no "arms race" with NAS technology.  Nice to have one area where the "upgrade-itis" itch is silenced

[fantasia]

20 hours ago, davide256 said:

Your sound will have more harshness and irritants using M.2 or SATA attached SSD vs a NAS. The benefit of using internal storage is

faster library scan/access  and less initial cost. If you are committed to internal M.2 storage Intel 670P is a good choice, faster is not as important

as electrically stable/quiet.

 

Since Stylus uses SMB network file access using a NAS is very easy, can use the basic media server function included

with a NAS. Folks find little difference in performance between NAS competitors for audio SQ, mostly a matter

of how fast a scan completes and throughput.  NAS's are cheaper to grow capacity, trivial audio SQ difference between using SSD

and HD for storage. Over time I've grown mine from 2TB to 10 TB, just by backing up the NAS , swapping in larger drives and restoring

from backup. And there is no "arms race" with NAS technology.  Nice to have one area where the "upgrade-itis" itch is silenced

Hi Davide256

 

thank you very much for your support and for explaining why a nas is preferable to an internal music ssd.

 

I think that loading and retrieving the music library while playing music with an internal ssd is not sound-enhancing?!

 

This is avoided by outsourcing to a NAS?!

 

That sounds very tempting, and now I can't rest. In addition to the music archive, could the NAS also be used as storage for PC backups, TV films, etc.?

 

I will PM you to discuss further details.

 

Best regards

 

[flkin]

When using a NAS, the music is first copied to the computer ram before playback if the “buffer music into ram “ option is chosen from Music Service:Playback Options. If you select the “use cache” option under Library:Misc, it will copy the NAS music into an internal drive Euphony creates and then play from there. Mainly to speed up often played music. 

if your lan connection speed isn’t fast (say like when using an EtherRegen 100M connection) the playback speeds without the buffers above can be pretty slow. 

 

[Antanas]

On 3/2/2023 at 4:54 PM, di-fi said:

 

Only for Euphony V3 license holders (anyone?) : interestingly, an update was offered for V3 as well.

 

I did not try it but it now has an 'Upgrade to V4' button (which very likely is the only change). I kept a V3 previous release backup in case the latest 2023 version suddenly 'expires' ;-)

 

Good day.
I would like to ask you about version 3.
Will I lose my version 3 license if I update?

 

Thanks,

Antanas

[dc-audiogeek]

2 hours ago, Antanas said:

Good day.
I would like to ask you about version 3.
Will I lose my version 3 license if I update?

 

Thanks,

Antanas

Yes. You can’t go back.

[aangen]

I find all this amusing. Before, I was using SSD drives in my server. People shouted “build a NAS, it will sound better!” After I built my NAS people shouted “an internal SSD sounds better!”. I am sticking with the NAS.

[fantasia]

6 hours ago, aangen said:

I find all this amusing. Before, I was using SSD drives in my server. People shouted “build a NAS, it will sound better!” After I built my NAS people shouted “an internal SSD sounds better!”. I am sticking with the NAS.

Hi

 

Exactly is really interesting, with a NAS you are more flexible than with an internal SSD and it should also sound better according to Davide256, which unfortunately I haven't been able to compare so far and so I trust him that it's better!

 

If the music files are stored on the OS SSD, you cannot easily install or test them in another pc!

 

Therefore, I will switch to a NAS in the medium term.

[drjimwillie]

From what I remember, the wisdom was that solid-state drives in your server, created noise. But then, people found that if you use a very quiet, solid state drive, ie Optane, it was better to have the optane drive in your server. 
I have tried both. I have the Qnap “quiet NAS” that has no fan and I have it powered with a linear power supply. I went as far as not installing the. M.2 SSD in the NAS, and only have spinning, hard drives.  It is situated with my other Network gear and isolated with fiber optic.

I have one of the big Optane drives in my server, and it holds my favorite music for local playback.

[fantasia]

44 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

From what I remember, the wisdom was that solid-state drives in your server, created noise. But then, people found that if you use a very quiet, solid state drive, ie Optane, it was better to have the optane drive in your server. 
I have tried both. I have the Qnap “quiet NAS” that has no fan and I have it powered with a linear power supply. I went as far as not installing the. M.2 SSD in the NAS, and only have spinning, hard drives.  It is situated with my other Network gear and isolated with fiber optic.

I have one of the big Optane drives in my server, and it holds my favorite music for local playback.

thanks for your input!

 

If I understand you correctly, you switched from a Qnap NAS equipped with m.2 ssd to mechanical hdds and now switched to a quiet, quiet intel optane SSD as the best option?! runs on this euphony as well as the music archive?

 

Which model?

are these also available as 2TB?

 

Now I'm a bit confused as to which solution is actually the best!

 

Many thanks in advance for the detailed description

[c-w]

19 hours ago, fantasia said:

Now I'm a bit confused as to which solution is actually the best!

 

Man, you are in the wrong place if you think there are many universal truths in the audiophile world...  🙂

[fantasia]

10 minutes ago, c-w said:

 

Man, you are in the wrong place if you think there are many universal truths in the audiophile world...  🙂

Many thanks for the very valuable support!

[KATARRAZZI]

Hello! It's been a long time since I've been back on the forum, I just made a new discovery about using Vitos OS on my Endpoint as Roon Bridge, it sounds great and can be said to be a competitor Stylus+StylusEP when combined with Roon Server on windows 10. My Vitos hardware is celeron J3160.

[stefano_mbp]

23 minutes ago, KATARRAZZI said:

My Vitos hardware is celeron J3160.

Isn’t it for rpi only? or are you running a Silent Angel server?

[KATARRAZZI]

1 hour ago, stefano_mbp said:

Không phải nó chỉ dành cho rpi sao? hay bạn đang chạy máy chủ Silent Angel?

đúng rồi, tôi  đang dùng Silent Angel! nó nghe rất ổn khi làm Endpoint

 

[drjimwillie]

On 3/14/2023 at 9:48 AM, fantasia said:

thanks for your input!

 

If I understand you correctly, you switched from a Qnap NAS equipped with m.2 ssd to mechanical hdds and now switched to a quiet, quiet intel optane SSD as the best option?! runs on this euphony as well as the music archive?

 

Which model?

are these also available as 2TB?

 

Now I'm a bit confused as to which solution is actually the best!

 

Many thanks in advance for the detailed description

There are a lot of great options. I am not sure which one is the best.
ideas and technology evolve quickly.

The NAS is a great solution, and internal storage is also a great solution.
 

The NAS I am using is the QNAP HS-453DX. As I said, it does not have a fan, and it has a very thick metal tarp to dissipate the heat. It takes two spinning HDDs and a M.2 drive. I did not install the M.2 drive. The wisdom at the time, a couple of years ago, was that the solid-state drives were noisy. I am reconsidering it, and I think I am going to install the M.2 drive, although, that is because I do not really use that NAS currently to serve my files, so I do not think it will have an impact.  One nice thing about this NAS is that it has an Intel Celeron quad core CPU. I was using it to run ROON, so I did not have all that processing on my Music server. I am also currently not using ROON. 

 

The Optane solid-state drive is the Intel 900P 480Gb PCIE card. It is the card that the Extreme server uses to run its operating system.   I am only using it for music file storage. 
 

The server I have also has M.2 slot, I have Euphony running on an Optane M.2 card. 
 

It must be that the wisdom regarding running solid state drives that are less quiet than the Optane SSD, because the extreme server is using them for music storage. They use an ASUS Hyper M.2 X16 PCIE card in their server. If you want to use a 2TB M.2 card, that might be the way to go.

 

I would love to hear other peoples opinions on why this arrangement doesn’t create the SSD noise that Romaz described.  Is it because of the dual CPU arrangement in the Extreme?
 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 hours ago, c-w said:

 

Man, you are in the wrong place if you think there are many universal truths in the audiophile world...  🙂

Well said, unfortunately :~)

[di-fi]

12 hours ago, drjimwillie said:

I would love to hear other peoples opinions on why this arrangement doesn’t create the SSD noise that Romaz described.  Is it because of the dual CPU arrangement in the Extreme?
 

Could it be the SSD noise you are referring to was related to using SSD drives with a SATA connection vs. NVMe  M2. drives that have a much directer line (PCIe or M2. ) of communication with the CPU with less noise and less interference ?  

 

When evaluating sound quality from files stored on a NAS vs. NVMe M2. vs. USB drive (or playing local files vs streaming over internet) one should to take their whole network chain quality AND cost in consideration. The network is open to interference and noise coming in through network- and DC cables, power supplies, router, switch(es) and more. Add to that the type of memory chosen, it's sound character and it's connection type to the MOBO. 

 

A PCIe card like ASUS Hyper M.2 X16 PCIE can accomodate up to four NVMe M2 drives, but it has a fan (These cards also come without fans). I estimate for 4TB of storage it will cost 4x $60 + fanless expansion PCIe card 1x $50 vs. a 4TB NAS for x $? A Optane 16GB (OS) M2. drive costs $10. An Intel 670P NVMe1TB $60.

 

I agree as said above your truth is in your ears. But a very inspiring place to start here and with Euphony one can not go wrong, regarding sound quality that is.

[fantasia]

On 3/16/2023 at 3:07 AM, di-fi said:

Could it be the SSD noise you are referring to was related to using SSD drives with a SATA connection vs. NVMe  M2. drives that have a much directer line (PCIe or M2. ) of communication with the CPU with less noise and less interference ?  

 

When evaluating sound quality from files stored on a NAS vs. NVMe M2. vs. USB drive (or playing local files vs streaming over internet) one should to take their whole network chain quality AND cost in consideration. The network is open to interference and noise coming in through network- and DC cables, power supplies, router, switch(es) and more. Add to that the type of memory chosen, it's sound character and it's connection type to the MOBO. 

 

A PCIe card like ASUS Hyper M.2 X16 PCIE can accomodate up to four NVMe M2 drives, but it has a fan (These cards also come without fans). I estimate for 4TB of storage it will cost 4x $60 + fanless expansion PCIe card 1x $50 vs. a 4TB NAS for x $? A Optane 16GB (OS) M2. drive costs $10. An Intel 670P NVMe1TB $60.

 

I agree as said above your truth is in your ears. But a very inspiring place to start here and with Euphony one can not go wrong, regarding sound quality that is.

Hi

 

I share your view exactly.

 

A fully shielded network with professional routers, switches and cables is very complex and very expensive!

 

I have had good experiences with a galvanically isolated NIC card (fiber optic), this largely keeps interference from the router switch. (galvanic isolation)

 

in principle, i am very satisfied with the sound of a built-in ssd and euphony V3!

An intel 670P 2TB SSD would probably bring a little more peace, but the effort is hardly worth it?!

So the whole system would have to be reinstalled!......

 

When upgrading to V4, however, it would make sense to start over and install the Intel 970P SSD at the same time, smile..

[davide256]

Wondering if anyone else is liking Euphony as a UPnP renderer? I’m enjoying it quite a bit, the thing I didn’t expect is that results seem to scale with compute power.

Current setup

Linn Kazoo controller

minimserver + bubble upnp on NAS

Euphony UPNP on 11i3 NUC , RAM mode