Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[PavelDosko]

Conjecture always arises when there is insufficient information, in this case by Euphony. How will the V4 be sold and for how much? How and whether V3 users will benefit?

[an333]

6 minutes ago, PavelDosko said:

Conjecture always arises when there is insufficient information, in this case by Euphony. How will the V4 be sold and for how much? How and whether V3 users will benefit?

New users who purchased the v3 license after the first February, when the inscription "BUY 3.0 LICENSE NOW AND GET FREE UPGRADE TO 4.0 AS SOON AS AVAILABLE" appeared on the site, have already received letters from euphony. They're talking about getting a v4 subscription for two years.

[Gbn]

3 hours ago, an333 said:

I nuovi utenti che hanno acquistato la licenza v3 dopo il primo febbraio, quando sul sito è apparsa la scritta "ACQUISTA ORA LA LICENZA 3.0 E RICEVI L'AGGIORNAMENTO GRATUITO ALLA 4.0 APPENA DISPONIBILE", hanno già ricevuto lettere da eufonia. Stanno parlando di ottenere un abbonamento v4 per due anni.

Confermo 

[ArthurPower]

Greetings everyone. For those who don't know me, I've been handling euphony in North America since its inception. I know the entire euphony team and talk with them weekly. 

 

I was surprised and a little disappointed with the new subscription model myself. Everyone's doing subscription services these days and sometimes with little return. However, I see how hard these guys work on this software. They don't have the resources that a company like Roon has. Yet, they continue to churn out updates and add features. 

 

Someone made a good point on this thread that audiophiles are willing to spend a $1,000 dollars on a power cable, yet they don't want to pay anything for software. I guess I also used to be one of those guys. Keep in mind you don't get any firmware updates for your interconnects. lol  It is a tremendous undertaking to continue to keep this product current, stable, and with the latest dependencies required for all the features people want. 

 

Please try to be patient for the next few days as they work out the details of the subscription service. After using euphony, most people agree it is a significant upgrade in audio quality over competing products. If I told my customers I could make their equipment sound considerably better for only $150 a year, I don't think anyone would hesitate if it was presented in that manner. 

 

Unless you're a programmer or you've worked with programmers, you don't realize the amazing amount of time it takes with any software product, especially an entire operating system like this dedicated to audio.

 

I'd like to thank everyone who beta tested this software which has helped move up the release date and make euphony a better product.

 

Please note: I do not directly benefit from the sale of this software. Only by selling complete systems with euphony (I have to pay the full price for the software) do I make a profit. 

 

Enjoy the music, Arthur 

Power Holdings Inc 

 

[Yiakubou]

6 minutes ago, ArthurPower said:

They don't have the resources that a company like Roon has

Then it should be reflected in the price. Let's see what the pricing will be. But if it's going to be $150 a year as you mention, then it's the same as Roon and it should be to no surprise that customer will be then expecting a similar level of service. Sound quality aside, Euphony today is very far from that.

[ArthurPower]

Resources are needed for companies to grow in order to provide better support and faster updates. Will you support euphony?

[flkin]

7 hours ago, davide256 said:

… I would not find it unreasonable for Euphony to have an annual maintenance fee, ….

a good suggestion  😄👍🏻
 

A perpetual license for v4 but you only get feature upgrades (and personal help?) for a fee. Bug repairs for existing functions remain free. 

[flkin]

3 hours ago, Yiakubou said:

But if it's going to be $150 a year as you mention, the same as Roon and it should be to no surprise that customer will be then expecting a similar level of service. …

Roon doesn’t offer personal and fast service for help. They only have the community chat for that. 
 

Euphony has fast response personal help with remote in checkups in needed. And on the fly bug fixes with permanent fix during the next software update. 

 

Help doesn’t get better than this! 

[davide256]

36 minutes ago, flkin said:

a good suggestion  😄👍🏻
 

A perpetual license for v4 but you only get feature upgrades (and personal help?) for a fee. Bug repairs for existing functions remain free. 

Agree. Given how many times I’ve changed NUC’s in the past 2 years It’s bothered my conscience that  Zelijko didn’t have a maintenance fee for the second year of support

[al2813]

8 hours ago, ArthurPower said:

Greetings everyone. For those who don't know me, I've been handling euphony in North America since its inception. I know the entire euphony team and talk with them weekly. 

 

I was surprised and a little disappointed with the new subscription model myself. Everyone's doing subscription services these days and sometimes with little return. However, I see how hard these guys work on this software. They don't have the resources that a company like Roon has. Yet, they continue to churn out updates and add features. 

 

Someone made a good point on this thread that audiophiles are willing to spend a $1,000 dollars on a power cable, yet they don't want to pay anything for software. I guess I also used to be one of those guys. Keep in mind you don't get any firmware updates for your interconnects. lol  It is a tremendous undertaking to continue to keep this product current, stable, and with the latest dependencies required for all the features people want. 

 

Please try to be patient for the next few days as they work out the details of the subscription service. After using euphony, most people agree it is a significant upgrade in audio quality over competing products. If I told my customers I could make their equipment sound considerably better for only $150 a year, I don't think anyone would hesitate if it was presented in that manner. 

 

Unless you're a programmer or you've worked with programmers, you don't realize the amazing amount of time it takes with any software product, especially an entire operating system like this dedicated to audio.

 

I'd like to thank everyone who beta tested this software which has helped move up the release date and make euphony a better product.

 

Please note: I do not directly benefit from the sale of this software. Only by selling complete systems with euphony (I have to pay the full price for the software) do I make a profit. 

 

Enjoy the music, Arthur 

Power Holdings Inc 

 

 

I am happy you are here to defend the Euphony team. Because in fact (and I posted this already 3 times) the problem is not in the product (incredible), in the support (even more so!) etc. It is simply a communication issue. If you change your commercial model, explain the new one, give a clear picture of the future and more importantly give some love back to the faithful users on this forum who advertise your SW to their social circle (I do) and who have spent some of their time to be your beta testers. 

[PavelDosko]

p.s. I don't know any other music SW that would cost 150 Euro + taxes/year. I really miss information about what and how it will be.

[Yiakubou]

9 hours ago, ArthurPower said:

Resources are needed for companies to grow in order to provide better support and faster updates. Will you support euphony?

I'd love to, but let's see the conditions first. Don't take me wrong, I truly believe Euphony has a unique product on the market that has great potential. But my customer experience has not been great so far and that is my main issue:

 

- I purchased the v3 licence mid January. If I'd do that 2 weeks later, I would get v4 upgrade for free, even though I thought it would be applicable for me by the time I did the purchase. But ok, this is something I can accept and I understand they need to draw the line somewhere. Bad luck for me I guess.

- The reason I purchased the licence was that Euphony is the only product on the market that I'm aware of, that allows to have Roon and HQP running under the same OS on one PC. I'm not proficient with Linux, so that was the major reason for me.

- Few months later the Roon + HQP integration in Euphony stopped working, because of HQP version being too old, with no plans to fix it in v3. Euphony's team advice not to update Roon to newer versions that require newer version of HQP was ridiculous to say the least. So, a major advertised feature, that was the main selling point for me, has been disabled without warning or any prior communication only after few months from purchase.

- Got pissed, calmed down. Still believed in Euphony and patiently waited for v4

- Was testing the v4 in beta a lot, submitted quite a lot of issues and provided good details in my tickets - some hard to duplicate issues were fixed thanks to my details. Even got response from Zeljko saying that he'd wish all users submit their tickets in such a detail. I've spent quite a lot of time on all of that.

- Beta testing is now completed and then this communication mumbo jumbo around subscriptions and pricing happened. My 300EUR v3 licence that I was able to use as expected only for few months is now practically useless, I am not eligible for a free upgrade, the conditions for v4 are not clear, as it is not clear what will be the pricing for v3 licence holders.

 

Is this a good customer experience? Hell no...

 

I'm not giving up, but as @al2813 mentioned, I truly hope they plan to give some love back to the customers who have been supporting them so far.

[TimF]

12 hours ago, ArthurPower said:

Greetings everyone. For those who don't know me, I've been handling euphony in North America since its inception. I know the entire euphony team and talk with them weekly. 

 

I was surprised and a little disappointed with the new subscription model myself. Everyone's doing subscription services these days and sometimes with little return. However, I see how hard these guys work on this software. They don't have the resources that a company like Roon has. Yet, they continue to churn out updates and add features. 

 

Someone made a good point on this thread that audiophiles are willing to spend a $1,000 dollars on a power cable, yet they don't want to pay anything for software. I guess I also used to be one of those guys. Keep in mind you don't get any firmware updates for your interconnects. lol  It is a tremendous undertaking to continue to keep this product current, stable, and with the latest dependencies required for all the features people want. 

 

Please try to be patient for the next few days as they work out the details of the subscription service. After using euphony, most people agree it is a significant upgrade in audio quality over competing products. If I told my customers I could make their equipment sound considerably better for only $150 a year, I don't think anyone would hesitate if it was presented in that manner. 

 

Unless you're a programmer or you've worked with programmers, you don't realize the amazing amount of time it takes with any software product, especially an entire operating system like this dedicated to audio.

 

I'd like to thank everyone who beta tested this software which has helped move up the release date and make euphony a better product.

 

Please note: I do not directly benefit from the sale of this software. Only by selling complete systems with euphony (I have to pay the full price for the software) do I make a profit. 

 

Enjoy the music, Arthur 

Power Holdings Inc 

 

 

Hey Arthur,

 

I think the point is missed here, this is nothing to do with development costs and pricing. I am 100% happy to pay for new versions of Euphony and a subscription model if we are told in advance about it. This gives me a choice as a consumer. 

 

The issue is moving to a subscription model without advanced notice. I just bought V3 and then found out I was to be given a limited time V4 license. This is poor communication at best. 

 

So what would be better at this stage would be to honour the V4 upgrade for those that have just bought V3 recently, and no run subscription on this. Then you can start charging us for V5 and moving to subscription as we will have had advanced notice. I hope you can see it is your existing loyal user base that is annoyed, and it won't benefit anyone if we start dropping out. 

 

Please pass this on to the developers. 

 

Thanks, Tim

[PavelDosko]

I have no idea how many people bought the V3, in the order of hundreds, thousands? I suspect that most of them will not be enthusiastic about the new sales policy, because they bought the unlimited product with the understanding that they will pay for the new version. I also don't know how many new buyers will be interested in the V4 at the outlined prices, but I just don't like uncertainty. If I had known this 15 months ago when I bought the V3, believe me, I would not have decided to buy it.

 

I convinced several people in my area to buy V3, now they are quite cursing. Nothing is worse for a company than an unsatisfied customer

 

[walloon]

Something else to clarify: if I upgrade from v3 to v4 and pay the licence for 1 year. What if I decide not to renew? Will I be able to revert back to v3?

[Smaragdhk]

2 hours ago, walloon said:

Something else to clarify: if I upgrade from v3 to v4 and pay the licence for 1 year. What if I decide not to renew? Will I be able to revert back to v3?

 

Technically yes, since V3 is a perpetual license and it should work for as long as your hardware supports it.  

[davide256]

Hmm, I was paying $115 per year for Roon until I gave up on it. And JRiver used to annoy the heck out of me with it’s frequent version update charges. I can live with an annual maintenance fee after 1st year of purchase to cover hw and feature update support. But there is no library intelligence built into Euphony, ergo no justification for a subscription fee… if someone elects not to renew maintenance that shouldn’t stop the player from working, it should just prevent updates. Plenty of folks that buy something, get it working, then leave it unchanged for years. 

[walloon]

3 hours ago, Smaragdhk said:

 

Technically yes, since V3 is a perpetual license and it should work for as long as your hardware supports it.  

It means V3 should still be available for download. I suppose V3 will be overridden by V4 when upgrading.

[al2813]

17 minutes ago, walloon said:

It means V3 should still be available for download. I suppose V3 will be overridden by V4 when upgrading.

 Probably yes - you should keep your OS drive with V3 intact so that you can insert it back to the machine when reverting. 

[novtom]

On 7/13/2022 at 3:29 PM, Yiakubou said:

 

The Euphony licence is linked to your HW fingerprint, which is derived from your motherboard, CPU and ethernet card configuration. If any of that changes, your HW fingerprint will change as well and you need a new licence or request a transfer. Other components can be changed as you wish. It should not matter if you have 1 or multiple CPU's. See this article.

My NUC burned out and they transfered licenece to new HW fingerprint without any problems immediately. It is not necessary to buy new licence

[Yiakubou]

On 7/12/2022 at 6:06 PM, sunny_time_99 said:

Hi, the usage of a small e.g. Ugreen USB to ethernet Adapter (~15Euro on Amazon) is a cheap step up in S.Q for your NUC, even if you ethernet Chip is supported or not.

Regards

Sunny

 

I could not resist and had to test this as it's a small investment and because I do not understand why an external adapter would be better than an onboard chip. I purchased this exact Ugreen USB to ethernet adapter and... I'm not hearing any difference with my setup 🙃

 

However, the money is not completely wasted as by adding this adapter to the system and at the same time disabling the on-board LAN in BIOS, this changed my HW fingerprint, therefore had to register again and with that I get fresh 30 days of free trial lol. At the end the price for this adapter may be similar as 1 month of subscription 😉

[genvirt]

On 7/14/2022 at 12:58 AM, Yiakubou said:

Then it should be reflected in the price. Let's see what the pricing will be. But if it's going to be $150 a year as you mention, then it's the same as Roon and it should be to no surprise that customer will be then expecting a similar level of service. Sound quality aside, Euphony today is very far from that.

I wonder what king of service You actually didn’t got from Euphony support aka Željko?!

For my opinion Euphony always was (is) better that roon in SQ too(IMO).

I alway hearing a complainants on roon from my friends (and not only one).

Being in past software programmer I know exactly how many efforts needed for developing good and stable software product, and bring with it excellent service and support with small resources.

So, I’m sorry can’t agreed with You.

 

[an333]

11 minutes ago, genvirt said:

I wonder what king of service You actually didn’t got from Euphony support aka Željko?!

For my opinion Euphony always was (is) better that roon in SQ too(IMO).

I alway hearing a complainants on roon from my friends (and not only one).

Being in past software programmer I know exactly how many efforts needed for developing good and stable software product, and bring with it excellent service and support with small resources.

So, I’m sorry can’t agreed with You.

 

Why is everyone trying to convince us how much effort should be made by the programmer? Surely you know such things where you do not need to make efforts, but to be just a good guy and receive funds for it?
You mentioned the support service, then I will ask you a question as a past programmer. Was it impossible to fix the problem with HQPlayer in v3? Or was it just not a desire to work on v3? And you can ask a lot of such questions...

[BCRich]

22 minutes ago, an333 said:

Why is everyone trying to convince us how much effort should be made by the programmer? Surely you know such things where you do not need to make efforts, but to be just a good guy and receive funds for it?
You mentioned the support service, then I will ask you a question as a past programmer. Was it impossible to fix the problem with HQPlayer in v3? Or was it just not a desire to work on v3? And you can ask a lot of such questions...

As a HQPe user even before I started to use Euphony; it was my understanding that to fix It in V3 would have required an entirely new Kernel, which is exactly what V4 is.

[genvirt]

1 hour ago, an333 said:

Why is everyone trying to convince us how much effort should be made by the programmer? Surely you know such things where you do not need to make efforts, but to be just a good guy and receive funds for it?
You mentioned the support service, then I will ask you a question as a past programmer. Was it impossible to fix the problem with HQPlayer in v3? Or was it just not a desire to work on v3? And you can ask a lot of such questions...

As You understand I can’t answer You:) But, not everything can be fix on current platforms and can be done only in evaluate versions, for example v3 can’t measure AMD Ryzen cpu temp - it’s really annoying for me, hoped that it’ll be fix in upgrades, but not happened and Željko said that this un possible on v3 that’s it - nothing to do and I’m patiently wait for v4. 
Agree nobody want pay more and pay more, and yes better clear things from Euphony part will be great. I’m pretty sure all this comes to they notice.