Consensus about upsampling to 512 DSD

[Allan F]

On 6/27/2018 at 8:49 AM, NOMBEDES said:

"Audiophiles" like to listen to bad recordings at the highest resolution possible.  Apparently, they enjoy the pain.

 

A ridiculous generalization. The audiophiles I know like to listen to the recorded version that provides the most accurate reproduction of the performance, be it Red Book, hi res PCM, or DSD. Dunno why some people feel the need to use the term "audiophile" in a pejorative sense. I guess it must make them feel better for some perverse reason.

[mansr]

1 hour ago, Allan F said:

Dunno why some people feel the need to use the term "audiophile" in a pejorative sense.

Probably the same reason some audiophiles use the term "hi-fi" in a pejorative sense.

[Ralf11]

distinguish audiophiles from audiophools

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Ralf11 said:

distinguish audiophiles from audiophools

There's a third category: GUTB.

[Ralf11]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

There's a third category: GUTB.

 

he seems to be under-clocked

[Ron Scubadiver]

So far, I am yet to see an improvement from up sampling.

[mansr]

31 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

he seems to be under-clocked

He's actually made a lot more sense the last few days. Unclear whether the kidney stone or the pain meds are responsible.

[barrows]

34 minutes ago, Ron Scubadiver said:

So far, I am yet to see an improvement from up sampling.

I would like some details on your experience:  What DAC?  What interface? What software program and what type of oversampling?

[Le Concombre Masqué]

22 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

No such thing as a free lunch though. From Mr. DSD:

 

"With a clear improvement from doubling the sample rate of single DSD, it seems natural and, of course, tempting to quadruple the sample rate or go even higher. We should expect the same or similar improvement as from simply doubling the sampling rate again, right?

 

Not so fast! It turns out there are physical limitations such as electronic component speeds, finite clock slopes, etc., that limit the amount of performance gain we could expect from raising the sample rate above a certain threshold. Such limitations are indeed starting to affect performance with quad DSD in D/A converters. Side effects in the form of audible noise and distortion are creeping into our audio band with quad DSD, greatly overshadowing the small benefit of the noise shaper curve starting at 80kHz. This, of course, is only apparent in D/A converters that convert the DSD signal directly into analog without any conversion to PCM or other digital filtering. To avoid this the quad DSD signal would have to be low-pass filtered and/or converted to PCM before converting it to analog."

 

https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/raising-the-sample-rate-of-dsd-is-there-a-sweet-spot/

 

Some might accuse me to jump on a "hot" topic but...

 

any experience with laptop cooling mats ? 

 

recommendation ? are they sonorous or noisy, interfere with SQ as being plugged on a USB port ?

 

I don't think I'm out of subject : upsampling to 128 + convolving causes heat issues yet. Pretty sure upsampling to 512 makes the computer run hot hot. It's damn exceptionally hot these days where I live (I don't know of a single person with air conditioning ; people usually complain about rain and chilly evenings even in summer) and I just can't run HQP for more than one or two tracks before my MBP 15" 's fans run high  while I don't have temperature issue at this moment, typing under OSX (when I listen I go Windows server) : it's definitely a upsampling/convolving issue.

 

tried to switch off ParkControl (Bitsum high profile) but I get exposed to stuttering with a "Balanced" setting". 

 

[mansr]

2 minutes ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

Some might accuse me to jump on a "hot" topic but...

 

any experience with laptop cooling mats ? 

 

recommendation ? are they sonorous or noisy, interfere with SQ as being plugged on a USB port ?

I'm not familiar with that flavour of snake oil. Could you give a link to an example or two?

[Ron Scubadiver]

12 minutes ago, barrows said:

I would like some details on your experience:  What DAC?  What interface? What software program and what type of oversampling?

 

It did not work for me.  That does not mean it will not work for anyone else.  Grace M9xx DAC on Win & Mac.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

13 minutes ago, mansr said:

I'm not familiar with that flavour of snake oil. Could you give a link to an example or two?

snake oil ? https://www.amazon.fr/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_14?__mk_fr_FR=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=laptop+cooling+pad&sprefix=laptop+cooling%2Caps%2C324&crid=3RLQOYGANXUWN

[mansr]

10 minutes ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

snake oil ? https://www.amazon.fr/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_14?__mk_fr_FR=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=laptop+cooling+pad&sprefix=laptop+cooling%2Caps%2C324&crid=3RLQOYGANXUWN

Oh, not an audio thing. I always assume audio related accessories are snake oil unless there's reason to believe otherwise.

 

If your laptop is overheating, I suppose increasing the airflow around it might help. Many CPUs have thermal throttling, meaning they slow down if they run too hot. This could lead to stuttering when running a demanding upsampling. If that's not happening, the only thing one of these coolers will do soundwise is add fan noise.

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, Ron Scubadiver said:

 

It did not work for me.  That does not mean it will not work for anyone else.  Grace M9xx DAC on Win & Mac.

Looks like it’s only DSD128 at best. Hard to say but doesn’t really allow too much upsampling ??‍♂️

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

If that's not happening, the only thing one of these coolers will do soundwise is add fan noise.

To combine two threads, it’s possible that the vibration from the cooling pad sitting on the lap creates a more pleasing listening environment ?

[fas42]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

Oh, not an audio thing. I always assume audio related accessories are snake oil unless there's reason to believe otherwise.

 

If your laptop is overheating, I suppose increasing the airflow around it might help. Many CPUs have thermal throttling, meaning they slow down if they run too hot. This could lead to stuttering when running a demanding upsampling. If that's not happening, the only thing one of these coolers will do soundwise is add fan noise.

 

Laptops have a "fatal flaw" - at least the ones I've used. There is no air filter anywhere in the moving air path - which means the cooling fins steadily get plugged up with gunk. In the places where it's impossible to physically get at this dust to remove it. And the fan works harder and harder, trying to push air through this muck ...

 

One laptop I took to pieces, now and again, when the fan speed went through the roof. And cleaned out the debris. Ahhh, relief ... ! With the current one, tipping it on its side so the fan outlet is uppermost, and blasting through that with a hand air puffer for quite a while forces enough of the dirt to go back out the way it came - lasts for about a year.

[4est]

2 hours ago, Ron Scubadiver said:

 

It did not work for me.  That does not mean it will not work for anyone else.  Grace M9xx DAC on Win & Mac.

What software? It's not as if all upsampling is the same. It isn't by a long stretch. Even then it comes down to the right filter choice. If you did your upsampling with something like iTunes, your answer would come as no surprise. In that you state the DAC and operating system and not the upsampling software indicates that you may not have delved too deeply.

[fas42]

Every audio rig, in its current state, is unique. There will never be universal answers as to what to do, which are most effective "for making the sound better" - there will always be a number of things which will be extremely cost effective to implement, if one is a good detective in being able to hear the variations when experiments are tried.

[Ron Scubadiver]

2 hours ago, 4est said:

What software? It's not as if all upsampling is the same. It isn't by a long stretch. Even then it comes down to the right filter choice. If you did your upsampling with something like iTunes, your answer would come as no surprise. In that you state the DAC and operating system and not the upsampling software indicates that you may not have delved too deeply.

What's your problem?  It doesn't work here.  It might work for you, but don't give me the third degree.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

7 hours ago, mansr said:

Oh, not an audio thing. I always assume audio related accessories are snake oil unless there's reason to believe otherwise.

 

If your laptop is overheating, I suppose increasing the airflow around it might help. Many CPUs have thermal throttling, meaning they slow down if they run too hot. This could lead to stuttering when running a demanding upsampling. If that's not happening, the only thing one of these coolers will do soundwise is add fan noise.

scenario A : no cooling pad ; scenario B : with.

 

If in B you can upsample more or set more demanding filters in your favorite player, then B yields a different (better) sound and thus a cooling pad will end up being dubbed a computer audio gear  ! ?(provided it's silent enough and does not make the computer noisier, in John Swenson's acception of the term)...

 

I ordered one...

[Summit]

11 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

distinguish audiophiles from audiophools

 

Audiophiles let their ear decided that’s sound good and bad. They don’t need measurements or technical prof for what they hear, but can be interested to know them.    

 

Audiophools buy gear based sole on market claims and what other says sound good. They need measurements or technical prof because they don’t trust their ears.     

[semente]

On 6/24/2018 at 11:36 PM, Kal Rubinson said:

I do not upsample either nor do I use NOS DACs.

 

Would it be correct to say that you upsample in the DAC not with music processing/playing software?

 

If so, then you do up-/oversample.

[Sam Lord]

14 hours ago, barrows said:

I would like some details on your experience:  What DAC?  What interface? What software program and what type of oversampling?

 

9 hours ago, Ron Scubadiver said:

What's your problem?  It doesn't work here.  It might work for you, but don't give me the third degree.

 

His problem is your failure to state what "it" is.  You needed to indicate whether you use oversampling software, i.e. external to your DAC.  Slipped past you, did it?  Let's try again.  Have you been using external oversampling software?   

 

[Kal Rubinson]

4 hours ago, semente said:

Would it be correct to say that you upsample in the DAC not with music processing/playing software?

If so, then you do up-/oversample.

Yes, indeed.  My statement that I do not use an NOS DAC says so implicitly.  However, I do not set my rendering software to apply any upsampling to its output and, thus, I do not use any up/oversampling software external to my DACs.

[Ron Scubadiver]

1 hour ago, Sam Lord said:

 

 

His problem is your failure to state what "it" is.  You needed to indicate whether you use oversampling software, i.e. external to your DAC.  Slipped past you, did it?  Let's try again.  Have you been using external oversampling software?   

 

This place is really creepy.