The Best for the Least

[Ralf11]

12 hours ago, STC said:

 

That's a myth. I don't think we will ever "solve" in this hobby. Now, I am itching to buy high quality speakers for the surround ambience that are capable of micro details decay. This is audio satyriasis and cannot be cured.

 

 

that's why I quickly added "or nearly so"

 

There is a cure however.  Just buy an old sports cars (esp. if it a high-buck Italian one) and "restore it" - you will soon be relieved of any audio addictions.

[beerandmusic]

Back to topic...let's not limit this just to DACS either. 

I would love to hear what others think are the best speakers less than $3K (new or used).

 

I like PSB Imagine T2 (used $1800)

B&W 705 (used $900)

FOCAL BE (anything)

ATC (anything)

 

anyone proud of their speakers that think they meet the "best for least"?

 

 

[Ralf11]

Maggie 1.7i meet your $3k criterion.  Add subs if you want to make Wendell cry...

 

My 3.7i cost $4k used but I had to settle for black.

 

Then there is Vandersteen...

[bigbob]

1 hour ago, beerandmusic said:

Back to topic...let's not limit this just to DACS either. 

I would love to hear what others think are the best speakers less than $3K (new or used).

 

I like PSB Imagine T2 (used $1800)

B&W 705 (used $900)

FOCAL BE (anything)

ATC (anything)

 

anyone proud of their speakers that think they meet the "best for least"?

 

 

 

 

Advent Large Loudspeakers purchased new 1975 for $112/pair.

New foam rings in 1990 for less than $50...but maybe the Nordost Valhalla Reference speaker ribbons and the XOT (NOT Carbon) Crossover transducers are to claim all the credit. I know Henry Kloss is rocking in his grave that his 1970's invention is still garnering such acclaim that a refurbished pair will still get almost twice the new price...used.

[Mark V.]

NuForce STA-200 power amp is without a doubt the biggest bargain I can think of. I've have owned quite a few different amps costing up to 3k USD new, the STA-200 beats all of them easily. It's extremely good sounding even on absolute level.

 

If you need a new power amp, grab one if you can find it!

[esldude]

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

snip...... 

 

Sure I can say something at -200dB doesn't matter on the face of it, but I'd need someone who actually knows what he is talking about to back me up. I don't pretend to know how something -200dB could or couldn't have an effect on something else. <- Just an example.

A few ways to parse this for yourself.  Your speaker cones would move far less than the brownian motion of air molecules at -200 db.  Our hearing threshold is just not far above this motion.  So pretty safe to say you won't hear it or hear effects of it. 

 

If you system is set up so max loudness is 120 dbSPL and that matches 0 dbFS, then at our most sensitive frequencies room noise might be as low as 10 dbSPL.  So we aren't going to hear something 90 db quieter than that.  

 

That is without talking about electronics noise levels which are very hard to get as low as -120 db.  80 db lower than that is swamped by noise.  

 

If somebody says things at -200 db matters, its on them to explain why and how.  The claim is a stupendous one that one has no reason to take at face value without something to back it up. 

[fas42]

17 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

Yes, you have it solved.

 

or nearly so -- maybe nothing is ever solved

 

What has been solved, by at least some people, is creating a system which allows any recording to provide listening pleasure, at any reasonable volume one chooses. This is a major step up on what most ambitious setups are capable of - nearly all show audible deficiencies in some aspect of their operation, which means restrictions in the type of material that can be played, and the volumes that reproduction is acceptable at.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, esldude said:

If somebody says things at -200 db matters, its on them to explain why and how.  The claim is a stupendous one that one has no reason to take at face value without something to back it up. 

 

 I would like to see Miska's take on this subject.

[fas42]

The 70, 80 dB down area is where the action is, in terms of getting it right or not - a setup that gets part of the story accurate to 200 dB down, but messes up another aspect at -60 dB ain't winning ...

[Rt66indierock]

3 hours ago, bigbob said:

 

 

Advent Large Loudspeakers purchased new 1975 for $112/pair.

New foam rings in 1990 for less than $50...but maybe the Nordost Valhalla Reference speaker ribbons and the XOT (NOT Carbon) Crossover transducers are to claim all the credit. I know Henry Kloss is rocking in his grave that his 1970's invention is still garnering such acclaim that a refurbished pair will still get almost twice the new price...used.

 

Don't forget stacked Advents. 

[GUTB]

Vintage speakers are pretty bad by today’s standards. How do you bring them up to modern performance? Can you?

[bigbob]

3 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Don't forget stacked Advents. 

 

The Harry Pearson Stacked Advents:

"

10. Advent

Not very long ago, a long-time audio buddy gave me a chance to hear his Double Advent setup (and in his garage!). The experience in a sense, just about took my breath away: The speakers, even in that primitive setting, were magnificent! They remained as uncolored and neutral as ever, exceeding too many of today’s so-called “super” systems. I had, if the truth be told, forgotten (audibly) just how very special this doubling up [stacking a pair atop another pair] of Henry Kloss’ last great speaker was and remains. Wished I had had the sense to hold on to the pair I bought (back when, actually in 1972, just before I started Issue One of this rag). The Advents weren’t then entirely trouble-free thanks to mechanical problems with the original tweeters. Seen in today’s light, aside from an airy top end, the only thing missing was its ability to recreate a wide and dimensional soundstage. If you can grab a pair in good condition, and they are out there, be smarter than me. Harry Pearson

[bigbob]

5 minutes ago, GUTB said:

Vintage speakers are pretty bad by today’s standards. How do you bring them up to modern performance? Can you?

 

I doubt if anyone could make you happy with anything....

Therefore I am assuming you just want another opportunity to roll out your usual big sack of crap.

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "It takes to two to tango, and it is only fishing if a fish grabs at the bait."

Next....

[Rt66indierock]

5 minutes ago, bigbob said:

 

The Harry Pearson Stacked Advents:

"

10. Advent

Not very long ago, a long-time audio buddy gave me a chance to hear his Double Advent setup (and in his garage!). The experience in a sense, just about took my breath away: The speakers, even in that primitive setting, were magnificent! They remained as uncolored and neutral as ever, exceeding too many of today’s so-called “super” systems. I had, if the truth be told, forgotten (audibly) just how very special this doubling up [stacking a pair atop another pair] of Henry Kloss’ last great speaker was and remains. Wished I had had the sense to hold on to the pair I bought (back when, actually in 1972, just before I started Issue One of this rag). The Advents weren’t then entirely trouble-free thanks to mechanical problems with the original tweeters. Seen in today’s light, aside from an airy top end, the only thing missing was its ability to recreate a wide and dimensional soundstage. If you can grab a pair in good condition, and they are out there, be smarter than me. Harry Pearson

 

Stacked advents predated the first issue of The Absolute Sound. 

[GUTB]

3 minutes ago, bigbob said:

 

I doubt if anyone could make you happy with anything....

Therefore I am assuming you just want another opportunity to roll out your usual big sack of crap.

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "It takes to two to tango, and it is only fishing if a fish grabs at the bait."

Next....

 

Am I wrong? Has there been no advancement in speakers in the last 40-50 years?

[beerandmusic]

anyone recommend any integrated amps with phono input?

[bigbob]

2 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Stacked advents pre-dated the first issue of The Absolute Sound. 

 

" Wished I had had the sense to hold on to the pair I bought (back when, actually in 1972, just before I started Issue One of this rag)."

 

I am sure that Harry Pearson was well aware of that, hence his quotation.

 

https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/171advent/index.html

J. Gordon Holt  |  Jan 1, 1971

[Rt66indierock]

14 minutes ago, bigbob said:

 

" Wished I had had the sense to hold on to the pair I bought (back when, actually in 1972, just before I started Issue One of this rag)."

 

I am sure that Harry Pearson was well aware of that, hence his quotation.

 

https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/171advent/index.html

J. Gordon Holt  |  Jan 1, 1971

 

Predates both they were stacked almost immediately after their introduction. I first heard them in 1970.

[BobSherman]

1 hour ago, GUTB said:

Vintage speakers are pretty bad by today’s standards. How do you bring them up to modern performance? Can you?

Really? 

 

Yahama NS1000, Celestion SL600s, SL700s, Just three that IMO can preform with current speakers.  There are many more.

[GUTB]

23 minutes ago, BobSherman said:

Really? 

 

Yahama NS1000, Celestion SL600s, SL700s, Just three that IMO can preform with current speakers.  There are many more.

 

Can speakers made without modern driver materials and without computer modeling and manufacturing tools really compete with today’s speakers?

[STC]

3 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

Can speakers made without modern driver materials and without computer modeling and manufacturing tools really compete with today’s speakers?

 

Can you confidently tell a modern speaker from a current one just by listening?

[BobSherman]

7 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

Can speakers made without modern driver materials and without computer modeling and manufacturing tools really compete with today’s speakers?

Yes.   Just like your perspective on class D... myopic. If you are able, maybe try and listen.

[GUTB]

1 minute ago, STC said:

 

Can you confidently tell a modern speaker from a current one just by listening?

 

I can’t say that I’ve actually listened to vintage speakers in a very long time. The general concensus (amongst audiophiles) is that they suck...right? Where does one go to listen to old speakers?

[STC]

Just now, GUTB said:

 

I can’t say that I’ve actually listened to vintage speakers in a very long time. The general concensus (amongst audiophiles) is that they suck...right? Where does one go to listen to old speakers?

 

Usually, at those places where where they use such speakers. There are many out there but usually keeping low profile for fear of being ridiculed by those who own super high end.

 

[BobSherman]

3 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

 Where does one go to listen to old speakers?

https://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/08/01/the-35-greatest-speeches-in-history/