The Best for the Least

[mourip]

1 hour ago, plissken said:

 

 

Why should I purchase a piece of gear with clear distortion, poor jitter suppression, left / right channel imbalance, susceptible to computer noise, vs one that does not. 

 

Would you mind describing your current system so that we can get an idea of what gear you prefer?

[BobSherman]

15 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

I trusting Mike Moffets own words when they blind tested:

 

But this guy kept going. And going. And going and going and going (Note to other sites: this is what moderation is for.)

Finally, Dave says, “Well, we can fix the glitch. It’s just a ROM change.”

Mike, who by now is weary of reading about his “incompetence,” says, “Yeah, **** it, go ahead, let’s compare the two ROMs again and see if there’s any difference.”

So he did. And we compared. There was no sonic difference, just as there hadn’t been any difference during development. No big shock.
 

 

 They sell DACs on the premise  audibility characteristics.  But all of a sudden they could not hear changes to the distortion profiles of the DAC? If something that is clearly measured isn't audible, how about the rest of the differences?

 

More written distortion. How about an honest original thought please? Oscilloscope OCD!  Something new for the the ICD-10.

[plissken]

Sure:

 

Amp: Yamaha P2500S

DAC: Emotiva DC-1 balanced outputs used

Computer: Custom Built with QC5000 mainboard with a linear regulated PSU (because it basically cost the same as a SMPSU and is fanless)

                    Adata 240GB SSD. Netgear USB 802.11ac WiFi on USB 3 bus , DAC on USB 2.0 bus.

Headphones: ATH-50's, AKG 701's

Speakers: Statements

 

HT:

 

Denon 4308ci

Zaph ZDT 3.5's L/C/R

Dayton Audio two way in walls for surround

 

Sub amp: Fan and heatsink modified Behringer iNuke 3000 DSP

 

Subs: My own design of two Infinity Kappa 12w.2 based dual opposed.

 

 

 

[plissken]

4 minutes ago, BobSherman said:

More written distortion. How about an honest original thought please? Oscilloscope OCD!  Something new for the the ICD-10.

 

Mike's the one that mentioned a/b testing and hearing no difference when it seems every other time there's a difference.

 

So would you say that not everything matters?

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, plissken said:

So would you say that not everything matters?

I’ll say that not everything matters.

[plissken]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’ll say that not everything matters.

 

Thanks for that. I wonder how Schiit could demonstrate what does matter if what we saw measurement wise doesn't.

[BobSherman]

17 minutes ago, plissken said:

Sure:

 

Amp: Yamaha P2500S

DAC: Emotiva DC-1 balanced outputs used

Computer: Custom Built QC5000 mainboard with a linear regulated PSU (because it basically cost the same as a SMPSU and is fanless)

                    Adata 240GB SSD. Netgear USB 802.11ac WiFi on USB 3 bus , DAC on USB 2.0 bus.

Headphones: ATH-50's, AKG 701's

Speakers: Statements

 

HT:

 

Denon 4308ci

Zaph ZDT 3.5's L/C/R

Dayton Audio two way in walls for surround

 

Sub amp: Fan and heatsink modified Behringer iNuke 3000 DSP

 

Subs: My own design of two Infinity Kappa 12w.2 based dual opposed.

 

 

 

How can you stand listening to such high distortion Tang band and Dayton drivers? Does it keep you up at night?

 

I will give you a bit of my feeling. In listening to the Schiit multi-bit vs delta-sigma I hear superb information retrieval accompanied by a more natural presentation. Sounds real, something missing imo from most D-S dacs I have owned. You know trying it won't kill you. Ultimately you can disagree, but at least you can form a fully valid opinion. Unless you really don't care and just enjoy being annoying. 

[BobSherman]

10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’ll say that not everything matters.

I  agree, there are always priorities and choices.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I think it's way too tricky to demonstrate what does matter and what doesn't. As we know, everyone's hearing is different and rooms are different and power is different and source is different (can effect some DACs greatly), etc...

 

I don't think anyone except @manisandher claimed to hear the zero crossing glitch in the Yggdrasil. Audible for him, but nobody else? Perhaps. 

 

Sure I can say something at -200dB doesn't matter on the face of it, but I'd need someone who actually knows what he is talking about to back me up. I don't pretend to know how something -200dB could or couldn't have an effect on something else. <- Just an example.

[Spacehound]

3 hours ago, mansr said:

There's a common perception among audiophiles that discrete circuitry is better than ICs. This is false. In fact, ICs often outperform their discrete equivalents due to shorter signal paths and better matching of components. If dCS really had discovered a fundamentally different way of performing A/D conversion, they could patent this and license to others who might create ICs based on it. dCS themselves wouldn't necessarily be involved in this process. Until someone shows me evidence to the contrary, I will continue to assume it is nothing but a standard design dressed up in audiophile marketing buzzwords.

Just assume it does a lot of complicated stuff which is worth doing but an Intel i7 or a Xeon can't do it fast enough (whether it's all true or not).

 

So  you've managed to get   it all  on one chip. What's the difficulty you now run into?  Remember that though expensive, it's still a 'consumer' product.

[plissken]

7 minutes ago, BobSherman said:

How can you stand listening to such high distortion Tang band and Dayton drivers? Does it keep you up at night?

 

Measurements of the Tangband and Dayton RS 180 please.  All the measurements I've seen show them punching above their weight class.

 

What's your setup?

[plissken]

13 minutes ago, BobSherman said:

Ultimately you can disagree, but at least you can form a fully valid opinion. Unless you really don't care and just enjoy being annoying. 

 

 

When Schiit believes in their product enough not to charge re-stock fees...

[The Computer Audiophile]

Let's not get into a big "system" contest. 

[beerandmusic]

19 minutes ago, BobSherman said:

How can you stand listening to such high distortion Tang band and Dayton drivers? Does it keep you up at night?

 

I will give you a bit of my feeling. In listening to the Schiit multi-bit vs delta-sigma I hear superb information retrieval accompanied by a more natural presentation. Sounds real, something missing imo from most D-S dacs I have owned. You know trying it won't kill you. Ultimately you can disagree, but at least you can form a fully valid opinion. Unless you really don't care and just enjoy being annoying. 

i tried and liked native dsd via enet tons better than schiit pcm usb

[BobSherman]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Let's not get into a big "system" contest. 

You forgot to mention the nuclear button on your desk.

[beerandmusic]

6 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

 

When Schiit believes in their product enough not to charge re-stock fees...

+1

i paid those restocking fees to ship back...

[Spacehound]

7 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

i tried and liked native dsd via enet tons better than schiit pcm usb

I've not heard the Schiitt but I see some say it sound 'natural'.

 

So does DSD, because it 'rounds everything off'. Go listen to  a real   trumpet close up  

[beerandmusic]

imho anything that does not have DSD capability can't be included in a category "best for least" or "best anything"....jmo

[BobSherman]

12 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

i tried and liked native dsd via enet tons better than schiit pcm usb

I do not like it better, but I also up-sample to higher rate  DSD with the D-S dac I own. Doing this brings other system considerations into play though, cpu power, electrical noise etc.

[beerandmusic]

Just now, BobSherman said:

I do not like it better, but I also like up-sampling to higher rate  DSD with the D-S dac I own. Doing this brings other system considerations into play though, cpu power, electrical noise etc.

if you don't like it better, why bother?

[BobSherman]

2 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

if you don't like it better, why bother?

Because I have more than one system.

[beerandmusic]

4 minutes ago, BobSherman said:

Because I have more than one system.

i still don't understand your comment..maybe i misunderstood what you were saying...

 

if you don't like it better to upsample to high rate dsd, then why do it?

[mansr]

34 minutes ago, Spacehound said:

Just assume it does a lot of complicated stuff

Sorry, you're going to have to do better than that.

[BobSherman]

Just now, beerandmusic said:

i still don't understand your comment..maybe i misunderstood what you were saying...

 

if you don't like it better to upsample to high rate dsd, then why do it?

Sorry if I was not clear enough. I have multiple systems, different rooms, setups, etc. The systems with the delta-sigma dacs sounds better imo than pcm when up-sampled to dsd 128 or 256, I cannot do 512.

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, BobSherman said:

 The systems with the delta-sigma dacs sounds better imo than pcm when up-sampled to dsd ...

+1

 

I still prefer native dsd to upsampled, but agree with you here.  imo native dsd over enet sounds best in my systems, in all of my testing over the years....

I still have not tried a chord though....maybe a qutest some day....they seem to get a good review in their price range...i just wish chord would make something more contemporary looking...i think their dacs are UGLY.