Objective proof the UpTone Regen ISO can improve a DAC's output(*)

[The Computer Audiophile]

@MikeyFresh Stop the personal attacks. I removed you post.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Question to people who are posting in this thread back and forth with others:

 

What goal are you pursuing with your continued posts in this thread?

 

Are you trying to prove something?

Persuade someone?

Defend a way of life?

Wear out your keyboard?

 

 

Really though, it's a honest question. I certainly understand saying one's piece, giving an opinion, and having a thought provoking conversation with others who think differently. However, I just suspect that there are some unknown (to me) motives on all sides, for people to keep going at it. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

This isn't directed at you @MikeyFresh

 

It's time for adults to act like adults. Stop trying to win the debate club championship, stop the personal attacks, and start being respectful. The chances are pretty high that every one of us would enjoy having a beverage with each other if we were sitting in the establishment of your choice. 

 

If someone believes they are being baited, don't respond. Don't push blame onto others for your actions. That's something my five year old daughter does ("He made me do it.").

 

Simple as that. Also, use the Ignore User and Ignore Topic buttons. 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

@Sal1950 I like the cut of your jib. We don't agree on much, but there's still something about you for which I have much respect.

 

P.S. What part of the country are you located in. Someday I may be at an audio event in your area and have a chance to shoot the breeze.

[The Computer Audiophile]

@Sal1950 You sound like big brother trying to save people from themselves, or keep them from experiencing enjoyment in an "uncertified" way. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

17 minutes ago, mansr said:

Please bring back the downvote button.

Would love to know why you disagree rather than an easy down vote. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

25 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

"son, I don't care how many of your buddies told you putting premium fuel in your car will make it faster. I can show you the dyno runs to prove it won't make a bit of improvement. but if you chose to ignore even that, have at it."

 

Am I dreaming to think conversations here could go so well and nicely stated?

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Because if I suggest I get two DAC's use Stereo Mix to drive both at the same time, one with a boutique USB cables, ISOR, LPS supply, and the other DAC driven directly, captured 24/192 into a 4 channel ADC, recorded with Reaper and then I post the files named A/B and anyone can either listen to them or view FFT / Spectrographically and then tell me which is which.

 

Well that for some reason kills the conversation :-)

 

I believe people are interested in all kind of different things. That's something not many people seem interested in. No biggie. 

 

I love how @Sal1950 ended his example with, "if you chose to ignore, have at it." If only both sides of these arguments could leave it at that. Life would be so pleasant and people just might look into their arguments even more. 

 

Jamming something down throats never works. For anyone, objective or subjective.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, Sal1950 said:

You've see the reactions to the numbers of time esldude put up stuff like that.

Most of the believers just refuse to participate in any "golden ears" listening test.

The ones that do always fail and then fall back to the usual circular arguments of how the test was somehow invalid.

 

It's clear such tests are uninteresting to people. Big deal. No need to read more into it. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I should also add, that 99% of the people posting or arguing are really nice guys in person, or via PM, etc...

 

I just wish more of the really nice guy side of people would shine a bit brighter. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Very different from anti-vaxxers. This is audio. A fun hobby for enjoyment. Not getting vaccinated killed a few kids here in MN this year. 

 

Presenting data is always cool with me. Where things go off the rails on both sides is the words surrounding the data. We all know similar data can be used to tell more than one story. 

 

Plus, the fact that people are so invested in their agendas is not good. Agendas on all sides. Say your piece about trusting your ears and only your ears and be done. Say your piece about measurements A and B being the final word, and be done. If someone wants to believe either side who cares?

 

 

In a sense we are arguing over chocolate and vanilla. Nobody gets hurt selecting either one and we all have free will to select or not select either one. 

 

If you have the money to increase your enjoyment of this hobby by paying $10,000 for cups that hang on the wall, I couldn't care less. If you go in and on about it, I also couldn't care less. We are all adults capable of reading and making up our own minds. 

 

I'll also say, for others reading this, that you've been very helpful to me via PM.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

37 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

Come up Chris, seriously. When folks run around making claims in any endeavor they are expected to be able to back those claims up.

When they are then offered the opportunity to do so, and show the whole world they are right, and refuse to even participate, there's no reason to think hard at why, or attempt read things into it. The actions speaks for themselves.

 

Nah. Most people here have nothing to gain by taking part. Manufacturers do for sure, but hobbyists? No way. Audio is fun. 

 

Most people have no interest in showing the whole world they are right. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

18 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

Knowledge, that does have value, no?

 

Knowledge is power and very valuable. But, these situations are so cut and dry. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

33 minutes ago, k-man said:

No, he worked at Microsoft and did some great things there:

 

What great things? 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, esldude said:

Chris does not want him posting here. 

He was here. He broke the rules. Got banned. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, jtwrace said:

So were others but they returned too...

Who?

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, Sal1950 said:

He invented the internet. 

That was Al Gore. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, tmtomh said:

 

I remain quite struck by folks' insistence on this kind of irrelevant deflection. His business history at Microsoft is irrelevant, and this notion that he has an axe to grind with UpTone seems like a self-perpetuating rumor. If there's any evidence Amir is developing a competing product to the ISO Regen, or that he has an economic interest in the Regen's failure, or that he has some kind of personal or professional issue with UpTone other than the measurements he's published, please someone show us that evidence. I'd be all ears, seriously. But this ad hominem BS is just ridiculous. (And for the record, any ad hominem accusations about Alex at UpTone are similarly pointless.)

Read the words that go along with the measurements. Clearly a bias. Screaming from the hilltops that something sucks, then whispering to a small group of followers several pages later that you screwed up the test, is one example of many. 

 

Also, he has a clear bias toward products he sells. If he measures all those components and publishes the results, that'd be a positive step. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

@Superdad said: "The majority of the people in this thread deny that USB cables, computer source variation, or USB signal integrity and clocking can make an audible difference"

 

however, those same people will rail against MQA leaky filters, even though they may not be audible. They haven't bothered to listen for audibility. It's only used when it supports their point of view. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

14 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Chris, unless you intend to show that Amir made up or faked the measurements he posted, there's nothing to be gained by accusing him of bias. Measurements speak for themselves, regardless of who makes them. I don't need Amir (or Alex) to tell me how to interpret them.

 

And guess what? Alex didn't share any measurements, even when I and others asked for them. Amir did, and he measured exactly what I wanted to see, with better equipment than I have access to. He found an issue with the product, which Uptone either wasn't aware of or didn't want to discuss. Tell me again why I should care about Amir's supposed bias?

 

 

Then the measurements showing the Regen helped and hurt and did nothing should be given the same weight and on the front page. 

 

The microRendu article was a disaster. Even the first measurements were a disaster. Corrections need the same headlines as the improper measurements. 

 

If you don't see a bias in all the words surrounding the measurements, I can't persuade you to see it. But you can read measurements and don't you think all measurements should be given the same headlines? If they don't get it, there's a bias. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

Even among Amir's detractors, you don't think anybody believes the plainly invented vomit you puke up, do you?

Another one of your rants that prove you have even less education than common sense.

Yet another lame adventure DA

 

Facts are facts Sal. 

 

His history was only brought up because someone suggested he did great things at MS. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, jtwrace said:

How about you buy an AP5xx and then include measurements with all your subjective reviews?  

I don't have the money and knowledge. If I did, I'd do it in a heartbeat. 

 

I'm not about to pretend I know how to use it. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

I got the measurements I wanted to see. 

Too bad not everyone else did. If you don't follow all the comments on several pages, you don't get all the info. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 hours ago, plissken said:

I've followed all the comments Chris. What info would I be missing?

 

I still haven't seen, in this particular instance, anything he's done that anyone can tear down. Alex actually agreed and posited a $40 medical grade SMPS with 1/10th the leakage. 

I should have been clearer. You certainly didn't miss anything, but everyone who doesn't keep up on all the comments misses quite a few corrections or info that makes the title/headline incorrect. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

@pkane2001 and @Thomas savage I'm not arguing against or suggesting shouldn't be open to corrections and the whole process showing transparency. 

 

My issue is that this stuff is berries in footnotes. Perhaps it's just not attractive to the readers of that site, if the headline said the Regen may help, hurt, or be of no consequence.  

All the articles are just so open to being picked apart. If one truly had an altruistic passion for showing facts, things could be done so much differently. In fact, it's probably much easier to publish this stuff without the anecdotal bias and footnotes. Then again, traffic to that site would be vastly different and most people wouldn't know who Amir is.