The true experimental tweak thread

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Yeah, I know! I was well on the path to NAS + endpoint = audio nurvana. Then @romaz came along and told me my equation was wrong.  Sometimes I wish I wasn't so open minded to empirical findings. But I can't deny that I heard an SQ improvement from:

• direct ethernet connection
• MinimServer on W10 box compared to NAS. Now I'm trying Roon, and can't say definitively it sounds better on the W10 box compared to my NAS, but I'd need to add an SSD to my NAS to get good Roon performance, so I won't try that route. Plus this:
• I found an SQ improvement optimizing the W10 box with AO/PL. Even though it's a ControlPC (only running music server), not an AudioPC.

I still have the Mini, but will likely put it up for sale once I get organized. I need to have a spring sale - have a bunch of cables, accessories and what not laying about. You guys know the feeling!

 

 

Thanks. I'll try that. Not sure I can use the crocodile on the USB jack though.

 

It is still fun and interesting to read about your and others findings. It brings memories back from my pc days. I have just lost the tweaking enthusiasm with pc audio after many years down that path. I started all over from scratch and rediscovered how fun tweaking can be when the moody pc is out of the way. I might find my way back again, but not any day soon. Now, a Nimitra paired with a SMS-200 ultra or Etalon StrEamer is another ball game completely. I would gladly throw myself down that rabbit hole when my budget allows! ?

 

You just fasten the crocodile clip around the RCA outer barrel. Just be careful so you do not scratch the surface. When you know where you want it it is time to think about which cables to use for the final installation. I have several Entreq Eartha cables collecting dust because I never end up using them on the spots I originally thought I would. Just a tip! ?

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, moussaobeid said:

Came across this interesting tweak, quantum stickers by Telos Audio. You can check it out here http://www.telos-audio.com.tw/pd_new.html

 

Scroll down a bit and you will see it

 

 

Interesting! Reminds me of the Margio Labs tuning dots http://marigoaudio.com/tuning-dots/ which I used on my Linn tonearm and on the cartridge on my turntable. Unfortunately they did make as much sq difference as the Shakti on-lines...barely noticeable.

[Cornan]

Since this is a tweak thread I thought I'll post a link to Advance Audiophiles "Free tweaks!" http://theadvancedaudiophile.tk/?p=601

 

...and the bible

Van Den Hul "Hifi tips and hints" https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.vandenhul.com/download/CAwdEAwUUkNHVkc%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjB592-0ujSAhWnKJoKHTqxAnsQFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNE9h3oXBFIfAOkmF2ssU-wwRiskrQ&sig2=HsIXYGBd5VOuInbxF52SCQ

 

Enjoy! ?

[Ralf11]

I'm not buying any quantum stickers unless they will dig me some quantum tunnels.

[lmitche]

A DAC interfaced with Quantum entanglement would be the ultimate in galvanic isolation.

[JohnSwenson]

35 minutes ago, lmitche said:

A DAC interfaced with Quantum entanglement would be the ultimate in galvanic isolation.

 

35 minutes ago, lmitche said:

A DAC interfaced with Quantum entanglement would be the ultimate in galvanic isolation.

And wireless to anywhere in the universe, and completely un-hackable. Just a few small matters of engineering to work out.

 

John S.

[scan80269]

Hi Cornan,

 

I just stumbled into a tweak that's not necessarily going to advance SQ, but may be a step forward in facilitating USB DAC shootouts in a reasonably fair way.

 

I discovered my Aries Femto streamer can recognize more than one USB DAC, and is easily configured to play to any one of them.  I inserted a bus-powered USB3.0 hub (Unitek) between Aries and my usual Vega DAC, and plugged another USB DAC (e.g. Holo Audio Spring or Schiit Yggdrasil) into another downstream port of the USB hub.  The Lightning DS app for Aries then offered either DAC to be selected for playback.  Of course there is no way to play to more than one USB DAC at a time, since the USB link between streamer and DAC is always 1 to 1, but inserting the USB hub enables the DAC selection to be made in Lightning DS with a few taps on the iPad, and without the need to touch any cable connection already made to the DACs.

 

I suspect an UpTone REGEN would be a better device to use than this generic USB bus-powered hub, from the SQ perspective, but since the REGEN has only one downstream USB port it doesn't allow more than one DAC to be directly connected to it.  I suppose I can use an audiophile grade USB hub, or hack one up DIY style.  Several of my audio friends have acquired new DACs recently, so there are plenty of DAC shootout opportunities going forward.

 

My Auralic Vega DAC does not need +5V USB bus power at all, but many of my other DACs do, so perhaps I should also look into clean Vbus injection downstream from this USB hub.  I may also need to order more LPS-1 power supplies from UpTone...

 

I have yet to see what happens when two USB DACs are connected via a USB hub to a Windows 10 PC, though I suspect this should work in a similar fashion, and may even allow the DAC driver to be unified to Microsoft's USB Audio 2.0 unified driver (usbaudio2.sys) soon to debut with the next major Windows 10 release.  I can post a follow-up once this is checked out.

 

What do you think?

 

[Cornan]

4 hours ago, scan80269 said:

Hi Cornan,

 

I just stumbled into a tweak that's not necessarily going to advance SQ, but may be a step forward in facilitating USB DAC shootouts in a reasonably fair way.

 

I discovered my Aries Femto streamer can recognize more than one USB DAC, and is easily configured to play to any one of them.  I inserted a bus-powered USB3.0 hub (Unitek) between Aries and my usual Vega DAC, and plugged another USB DAC (e.g. Holo Audio Spring or Schiit Yggdrasil) into another downstream port of the USB hub.  The Lightning DS app for Aries then offered either DAC to be selected for playback.  Of course there is no way to play to more than one USB DAC at a time, since the USB link between streamer and DAC is always 1 to 1, but inserting the USB hub enables the DAC selection to be made in Lightning DS with a few taps on the iPad, and without the need to touch any cable connection already made to the DACs.

 

I suspect an UpTone REGEN would be a better device to use than this generic USB bus-powered hub, from the SQ perspective, but since the REGEN has only one downstream USB port it doesn't allow more than one DAC to be directly connected to it.  I suppose I can use an audiophile grade USB hub, or hack one up DIY style.  Several of my audio friends have acquired new DACs recently, so there are plenty of DAC shootout opportunities going forward.

 

My Auralic Vega DAC does not need +5V USB bus power at all, but many of my other DACs do, so perhaps I should also look into clean Vbus injection downstream from this USB hub.  I may also need to order more LPS-1 power supplies from UpTone...

 

I have yet to see what happens when two USB DACs are connected via a USB hub to a Windows 10 PC, though I suspect this should work in a similar fashion, and may even allow the DAC driver to be unified to Microsoft's USB Audio 2.0 unified driver (usbaudio2.sys) soon to debut with the next major Windows 10 release.  I can post a follow-up once this is checked out.

 

What do you think?

 

 

Thanks for sharing scan! ?

It is an interesting feature for comparing DACs, using different DACs in the same system (with and without tubes for example) or for multiroom purposes.

If you want to find a USB hub for comparing DACs I wonder if not the Icron 2.0 Ranger would be perfect for that job?  http://www.icron.com/products/icron-brand/usb-extenders/cat5/usb-2-0-ranger-2212/

You'll need to check if it works though, even if I do not see why it would'nt.

There is several devices available with 1, 2 or 4 USB ports. Unfortunately the downhill one will require 24V/1A, but I would personally not hesitate one bit to power it with a well constructed lab style PSU which have the DC output floating relative to the safety ground. It made a huge sq difference for my router for example.

 

[Amigoz]

12 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

It is still fun and interesting to read about your and others findings. It brings memories back from my pc days. I have just lost the tweaking enthusiasm with pc audio after many years down that path. I started all over from scratch and rediscovered how fun tweaking can be when the moody pc is out of the way. I might find my way back again, but not any day soon. Now, a Nimitra paired with a SMS-200 ultra or Etalon StrEamer is another ball game completely. I would gladly throw myself down that rabbit hole when my budget allows! ?

 

You just fasten the crocodile clip around the RCA outer barrel. Just be careful so you do not scratch the surface. When you know where you want it it is time to think about which cables to use for the final installation. I have several Entreq Eartha cables collecting dust because I never end up using them on the spots I originally thought I would. Just a tip! ?

 

Please explain more detailed, Nimitra paired with a SMS-200 ultra  you mean Nimitra paired with SMS-200, so streamer with streamer? or SMS-200 ULTRA you had on mind power supply for Nimitra? Thanks.

[Cornan]

36 minutes ago, Amigoz said:

 

Please explain more detailed, Nimitra paired with a SMS-200 ultra  you mean Nimitra paired with SMS-200, so streamer with streamer? or SMS-200 ULTRA you had on mind power supply for Nimitra? Thanks.

 

Sorry, but is'nt the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra the coming SMS-200 streamer with improved clocks? 

The approach is something suggested by @austinpop to @moussaobeid using the Nimitra as a NAS controlled by the SMS-200. If it works it surely looks like a very interesting approach instead of using a regular NAS or a regular pc/laptop.

 

The Nimitra it will act as a so called Library server. Controlled by the streamer.

[Amigoz]

58 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Sorry, but is'nt the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra the coming SMS-200 streamer with improved clocks? 

The approach is something suggested by @austinpop to @moussaobeid using the Nimitra as a NAS controlled by the SMS-200. If it works it surely looks like a very interesting approach instead of using a regular NAS or a regular pc/laptop.

 

The Nimitra it will act as a so called Library server. Controlled by the streamer.

Ok, but there is no logic to connect two streamers, i choose Nimitra or just SMS 200 - and you can get NAS directly.

The same for example i did not understood why somebody use Melco N1A like server, it is way too expensive, and it is not sounding even good, so i start to look skeptical to audiostream.com reviews. Everything i tried by their reviews, was just piece of shit. Melco N1A - did not liked, W4S RUR - also did not liked and it got good reviews.

[Cornan]

11 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

I'm not buying any quantum stickers unless they will dig me some quantum tunnels.

 

11 hours ago, lmitche said:

A DAC interfaced with Quantum entanglement would be the ultimate in galvanic isolation.

 

10 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

 

And wireless to anywhere in the universe, and completely un-hackable. Just a few small matters of engineering to work out.

 

John S.

 

Guys! I love jokes and do encourage you to post them, as long as you do not laugh at others expense. You might want to view the purpose of this thread ones more. Thanks!

 

[Cornan]

3 minutes ago, Amigoz said:

Ok, but there is no logic to connect two streamers, i choose Nimitra or just SMS 200 - and you can get NAS directly.

The same for example i did not understood why somebody use Melco N1A like server, it is way too expensive, and it is not sounding even good, so i start to look skeptical to audiostream.com reviews. Everything i tried by their reviews, was just piece of shit. Melco N1A - did not liked, W4S RUR - also did not liked and it got good reviews.

 

Logic is not always valid when you want to explore the borders of sq improvements!  I will not be surpriced if that combination would end up with improved sq myself. The Nimitra would be like a NAS on audio steriods. Now, since I am all concentraded to improve Tidal streaming only on my main headphone setup I will not jump the gun on this solution either. I would rather want something like an uber Auralic Altair or a uber Vinnie Rossi LIO with built in streamer. I just need to wait for it while I raise the funds.

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

 

 

Guys! I love jokes and do encourage you to post them, as long as you do not laugh at others expense. You might want to view the purpose of this thread ones more. Thanks!

 

Well Cornan, in the spirit of everything is possible what I proposed is based in physics. Here is a great explanation.  https://www.quantamagazine.org/20160428-entanglement-made-simple/ Given that the science is true, John is correct, it is an engineering problem to bring this to market.

[Jud]

4 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Well Cornan, in the spirit of everything is possible what I proposed is based in physics. Here is a great explanation.  https://www.quantamagazine.org/20160428-entanglement-made-simple/ Given that the science is true, John is correct, it is an engineering problem to bring this to market.

 

BTW, Quanta magazine in general is interesting reading.

[Cornan]

8 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Well Cornan, in the spirit of everything is possible what I proposed is based in physics. Here is a great explanation.  https://www.quantamagazine.org/20160428-entanglement-made-simple/ Given that the science is true, John is correct, it is an engineering problem to bring this to market.

 

This is more like it!  Both interesting and educational. Thanks for sharing Imitche!

[lmitche]

10 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

BTW, Quanta magazine in general is interesting reading.

Jud, you are right. Quanta is amazing.  Look at the author of the article referenced above: Frank Wilczek, is a Nobel Prize-winning physicist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

 

Quanta magazine comes from James Simon's foundation  https://www.simonsfoundation.org the mathematician turned hedge fund manager.

[Cornan]

3 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Jud, you are right. Quanta is amazing.  Look at the author of the article referenced above: Frank Wilczek, is a Nobel Prize-winning physicist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

 

Quanta magazine comes from James Simon's foundation  https://www.simonsfoundation.org the mathematician turned hedge fund manager.

 

I have already bookmarked Quanta magazine and will be sure to check it out carefully! Looks very interesting indeed when I just skim through it.

[austinpop]

8 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Sorry, but is'nt the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra the coming SMS-200 streamer with improved clocks? 

The approach is something suggested by @austinpop to @moussaobeid using the Nimitra as a NAS controlled by the SMS-200. If it works it surely looks like a very interesting approach instead of using a regular NAS or a regular pc/laptop.

 

The Nimitra it will act as a so called Library server. Controlled by the streamer.

 

I think you guys lost me here. I am actually not familiar with the Nimitra, so @moussaobeid can perhaps confirm. I understood he was using the Nimitra to be a standalone music player - with music stored either in locally attached disks, or a NAS - feeding a directly attached USB DAC. So in that sense, it is just a purpose-built computer.

 

Now, to integrate an sMS-200 in the chain, the only thing you need upstream of the sMS-200 is a music server of different flavors:

• a plain old SMB share, which the sMS-200 can access, and be controlled by an MPD control point
• a DLNA/UPnP server like Minim, JRMC, Bubble, etc, that the sMS-200 can attach in MPD/DLNA mode
• an HQPlayer instance, where sMS-200 is running the NAA mode
• a Roon core, where sMS-200 is running 

Functionally, most of these except HQPlayer, can be achieved on either a standalone computer, or even directly on a NAS of sufficient horsepower (this is for Roon).

 

As I, @romaz and many others are finding, even with an endpoint device like the mR or sMS-200 in the chain, the quality of the upstream "music server" matters. So in this context, the Nimitra - as a carefully purpose built audio computer - may be at an advantage.

 

Not sure there is any more to it than that.

[austinpop]

7 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Now, since I am all concentraded to improve Tidal streaming only on my main headphone setup I will not jump the gun on this solution either. I would rather want something like an uber Auralic Altair or a uber Vinnie Rossi LIO with built in streamer. I just need to wait for it while I raise the funds.

 

Spot on!

 

Your scenario - where you want to optimize Tidal playback - needs to be approached with its own unique perspective. It is not that easy, actually. Even with my previous chain:

• MinimServer on W10 (AO/PL)  bridge > FMC > FMC > Aries Mini > Intona > RUR > DAC,

I was finding that the same track played back from my local library sounded distinctly better than from Tidal. But in my case, the local file was being served by MinimServer on the optimized W10 box, whereas the Tidal file was being pulled by the Tidal "app" built in to Lightning DS.

 

On my sMS-200, I am currently evaluating Roon, and am really growing to like it. My initial reaction was far less positive, but with some time and effort, I've seen a lot more value. I'll write about this more at some point. But in this context, I do find that having Roon serve the same track from Tidal or from a local store, there was virtually no difference.

 

Stated differently, using Roon to serve Tidal content sounded better than having the Aries Mini pull it. However, I would be the first to tell you that if all your music comes from Tidal, the cost of Roon is difficult to justify. And it pushes you back into the PC optimization space you want to escape!

 

So perhaps a higher quality endpoint like the Altair might do better. But only listening comparisons would tell for sure.

[mozes]

59 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I think you guys lost me here. I am actually not familiar with the Nimitra, so @moussaobeid can perhaps confirm. I understood he was using the Nimitra to be a standalone music player - with music stored either in locally attached disks, or a NAS - feeding a directly attached USB DAC. So in that sense, it is just a purpose-built computer.

 

Now, to integrate an sMS-200 in the chain, the only thing you need upstream of the sMS-200 is a music server of different flavors:

• a plain old SMB share, which the sMS-200 can access, and be controlled by an MPD control point
• a DLNA/UPnP server like Minim, JRMC, Bubble, etc, that the sMS-200 can attach in MPD/DLNA mode
• an HQPlayer instance, where sMS-200 is running the NAA mode
• a Roon core, where sMS-200 is running 

Functionally, most of these except HQPlayer, can be achieved on either a standalone computer, or even directly on a NAS of sufficient horsepower (this is for Roon).

 

As I, @romaz and many others are finding, even with an endpoint device like the mR or sMS-200 in the chain, the quality of the upstream "music server" matters. So in this context, the Nimitra - as a carefully purpose built audio computer - may be at an advantage.

 

Not sure there is any more to it than that.

Correct @austinpop Nimitra is just a win 10 PC designed for audio. Now you can use it straight with a DAC like I do via USB or use it to serve music to an endpoint like SMS-200. You described this better than I can do.

I use Jriver to play music from my local SSD which also serves as a DLNA server

I am not sure about sound quality with Nimitra by itself or with the combo Nimitra+SMS-200

 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

...whereas the Tidal file was being pulled by the Tidal "app" built in to Lightning DS.

 

Correcting myself. The Tidal file is being pulled by the Aries Mini, using the Lightning Server running on the Mini.

 

Lightning DS is the iOS control app.

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I think you guys lost me here. I am actually not familiar with the Nimitra, so @moussaobeid can perhaps confirm. I understood he was using the Nimitra to be a standalone music player - with music stored either in locally attached disks, or a NAS - feeding a directly attached USB DAC. So in that sense, it is just a purpose-built computer.

 

Now, to integrate an sMS-200 in the chain, the only thing you need upstream of the sMS-200 is a music server of different flavors:

• a plain old SMB share, which the sMS-200 can access, and be controlled by an MPD control point
• a DLNA/UPnP server like Minim, JRMC, Bubble, etc, that the sMS-200 can attach in MPD/DLNA mode
• an HQPlayer instance, where sMS-200 is running the NAA mode
• a Roon core, where sMS-200 is running 

Functionally, most of these except HQPlayer, can be achieved on either a standalone computer, or even directly on a NAS of sufficient horsepower (this is for Roon).

 

As I, @romaz and many others are finding, even with an endpoint device like the mR or sMS-200 in the chain, the quality of the upstream "music server" matters. So in this context, the Nimitra - as a carefully purpose built audio computer - may be at an advantage.

 

Not sure there is any more to it than that.

 

The Nimitra is a audio purpose built computer, but as such it is very flexible. Good sounding as well it seems (ie. if you choose to trust all the good reviews). If Nimitra is used as a library server together with an external streamer I can see possible sq gains if you play local files. It could possibly reduce the interferences. If you play cloud files like Tidal/Qubus etc you are probably better off using Nimitra alone, controlled by BubbleDS Next via OpenHome (which will grab the files directly from the cloud).

 

If I suddenly feel the urge to play local files again I will surely upload them to the cloud (example Google Drive etc) and let BubbleDS Next manage them as well. I have optimizes the chain for it and see no point to add an electrical device to manage the local content in my chain...until something new comes along! ?

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Spot on!

 

Your scenario - where you want to optimize Tidal playback - needs to be approached with its own unique perspective. It is not that easy, actually. Even with my previous chain:

• MinimServer on W10 (AO/PL)  bridge > FMC > FMC > Aries Mini > Intona > RUR > DAC,

I was finding that the same track played back from my local library sounded distinctly better than from Tidal. But in my case, the local file was being served by MinimServer on the optimized W10 box, whereas the Tidal file was being pulled by the Tidal "app" built in to Lightning DS.

 

On my sMS-200, I am currently evaluating Roon, and am really growing to like it. My initial reaction was far less positive, but with some time and effort, I've seen a lot more value. I'll write about this more at some point. But in this context, I do find that having Roon serve the same track from Tidal or from a local store, there was virtually no difference.

 

Stated differently, using Roon to serve Tidal content sounded better than having the Aries Mini pull it. However, I would be the first to tell you that if all your music comes from Tidal, the cost of Roon is difficult to justify. And it pushes you back into the PC optimization space you want to escape!

 

So perhaps a higher quality endpoint like the Altair might do better. But only listening comparisons would tell for sure.

 

I have wanted to try Room many times since it was released, but managed to resist my urges. I see no point with it since I have other ways to find new music. The only thing I miss with BubbleDS Next is the possibility to sort the albums by latest added. I have turned 50 and my memory of artists is not what it used to be! ? 

 

Playing cloud content or local files is in most scenarios pretty much the same in terms how to improve sq, but with one major difference. ALL of the music bits are passing through the router emerging from the world wide web!?

[austinpop]

9 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

I have wanted to try Room many times since it was released, but managed to resist my urges. I see no point with it since I have other ways to find new music. The only thing I miss with BubbleDS Next is the possibility to sort the albums by latest added. I have turned 50 and my memory of artists is not what it used to be! ? 

 

Yes, I too don't really need all the rich content features of Roon. But it was able to help me repair some poor tagging choices I made years and years ago when I first ripped my CD collection, which was awesome. Secondly, it is claimed that Roon will do the first MQA unfold for Masters content on Tidal, which is a powerful selling point too. 

 

9 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Playing cloud content or local files is in most scenarios pretty much the same in terms how to improve sq, but with one major difference. ALL of the music bits are passing through the router emerging from the world wide web!?

 

I hear you! This whole finding about SQ differences between switched vs direct connection and bridging is still baffling. Yet, I can hear it.