The true experimental tweak thread

[Cornan]

I always think it is great to make a drawing of the system. It makes it easier to see where improvements can be made. Here is a spagetti image of how my secondary low budget system will look like when the DAC and optical cable have arrived.

 

 

Since the Ultra IT is already blocking the DC currents a DC blocker trap filter will most likely not improve SQ. It will probably only dampen the transformer noise, so I have decided to put that plan on ice for the time being.

I have added a TP Link DAP1620 wifi extender close to the Chromecast Audio (approx. 1 metter distance) to ensure best possible reception. If anyone have got an idea where to further improve this chain for reasonable money (except for vibration isolation and room treatments) please let me know your ideas!

 

All-in-all spent on this setup is around USD900 excl. freight charges (room 2 and Anroid tablet is not included). I want to keep it below USD1100 to see how much good sound you can sqeeze out of that amount of money!

[Cornan]

Cornan,can you pls provide a brief using layman's words on how grounding boxes work. I still can't get my head around it but I know now that it works:)

 

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In short words the grounding box acts as a little concentraded piece of mother earth. Black tourmaline are actually one of the most common minerals in the world (together with clear quartz) because they are usually mixed in various stones. Green tourmaline are even more effective but are rare and very expensive. The tourmaline stones is negatively charged by nature. It "neutralize" positive charges and the stones will release even more negative ions when it comes in contact with heat (positive charge). Think of hairdryers & straighteners that removes static electricity. They all have tourmaline stones. Depending on construction the grounding box is more or less effective. The construction and materials of the box, the mineral mix, the connectors and the cables are equally important to ensure a low impedance path to ground (ie. the grounding box). A grounding box will drain positive currents (AC/DC currents/noises) away from shieldings and make it into a cleaner and a less capasitively disturbing path. I hope that makes sense!

 

The grounding boxes was actually invented by the Japanease a long time ago. It was originally a way to cure their badly constructed ac mains electrical wiring by providing an improved safety ground. It is not recommended to replace the safety ground with a grounding box though, but it was what is was originally used for.

 

If you wonder why I am almost obsessed of unshielded wires...it is all the grounding boxes fault! They put me in that direction. Lately I actually have used my Entreq Minimus as a kind of "shield-noise-sniffer". If it does´nt make a difference on a spot, there is no shields there left to remove or improve!

[mozes]

In short words the grounding box acts as a little concentraded piece of mother earth. Black tourmaline are actually one of the most common minerals in the world (together with clear quartz) because they are usually mixed in various stones. Green tourmaline are even more effective but are rare and very expensive. The tourmaline stones is negatively charged by nature. It "neutralize" positive charges and the stones will release even more negative ions when it comes in contact with heat (positive charge). Think of hairdryers & straighteners that removes static electricity. They all have tourmaline stones. Depending on construction the grounding box is more or less effective. The construction and materials of the box, the mineral mix, the connectors and the cables are equally important to ensure a low impedance path to ground (ie. the grounding box). A grounding box will drain positive currents (AC/DC currents/noises) away from shieldings and make it into a cleaner and a less capasitively disturbing path. I hope that makes sense!

 

The grounding boxes was actually invented by the Japanease a long time ago. It was originally a way to cure their badly constructed ac mains electrical wiring by providing an improved safety ground. It is not recommended to replace the safety ground with a grounding box though, but it was what is was originally used for.

 

If you wonder why I am almost obsessed of unshielded wires...it is all the grounding boxes fault! They put me in that direction. Lately I actually have used my Entreq Minimus as a kind of "shield-noise-sniffer". If it does´nt make a difference on a spot, there is no shields there left to remove or improve!

 

Very informative @Cornan thanks a lot for the explanation.

 

 

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[austinpop]

I used to have two rooms in my basement on one circuit breaker where one room is used as a music room. What I have been doing is disconnecting everything in these two rooms that's plugged to the mains. I used to have only my Hifi system connected, all lights are switched off (don't know if they still make noise when they are switched off as they are sill connected). I also thought that this is as good as a dedicated circuit.

Well, after I installed the two dedicated lines, I learned that I was wrong, don't why but probably many reasons, wire was gauge 14, with more than 4 or 5 outlets and light switches all connected to it.

Now I have gauge 10 going directly to the breaker panel.

The improvement is huge nothing comes close, I tried before using an Elgar 2.4KVA isolation transformer as a substitute then I sold it, didn't hear any difference. Now it's the 4th day and the system is sounding better everyday, so maybe burn in or the system is settling, not sure, but I am extremely happy

 

That's good motivation!

 

Did you have to pull new 10 gauge wire from your panel down to your basement? Sounds disruptive.

[mozes]

That's good motivation!

 

Did you have to pull new 10 gauge wire from your panel down to your basement? Sounds disruptive.

 

Yes pulled two wires actually, but the panel is luckily in the basement as well

 

 

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[mozes]

@Cornan have you ever tried grounding the router? If it works on the switch then why not the wireless bridge router or/and the main router? It maybe a stupid idea but this is the right thread to throw thoughts like this

 

 

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[Cornan]

@Cornan have you ever tried grounding the router? If it works on the switch then why not the wireless bridge router or/and the main router? It maybe a stupid idea but this is the right thread to throw thoughts like this

 

 

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Not at all a stupid idea!

Grounding a router is a very good idea and could actually prove to be one of the best spots for a grounding box.

 

I did ground my router via one of the RJ45 sockets. It worked great until I got the Voltcraft LPS (galvanicly isolated) and the QED Reference SVT satellite cable+Axing DC (ground) Blocker. After that the grounding box did'nt make a difference for the better anymore. If the router had a metal frame I would have grounded the chassi. Unfortunately it is plastic.

 

The wireless adapter have also a plastic chassi and are connected to my isolation transformer with floating secondary (ie. also galvanicly isolated). Same story as the router in other words.

 

The switch which is galvanicly isolated via battery supply and Cat 6a U/UTP cables have a metal chassi.

 

What did I learn by this?

 

1. If I have a router, switch or wireless adapter with a metal frame I want to ground the chassi and probably leave it there for good.

 

2. If I have a router, switch or wireless adapter with plastic frame external grounding will be beneficial until the input is at least isolated from ground & DC currents AND the ac mains is galvanicly isolated.

 

In short signal grounding is beneficial until the ground and DC is fully isolated. Chassi grounding is beneficial if you have a metal chassi, but not always, so it needs to be tested.

 

The grounding is still very effective when the input signals DC/ground is isolated, so the mains galvanic isolation is very much effecting the ethernet signal. That's why you want to galvanicly isolate the ac mains connected to any network device, and in fact any audio device.

[Cornan]

I always think it is great to make a drawing of the system. It makes it easier to see where improvements can be made. Here is a spagetti image of how my secondary low budget system will look like when the DAC and optical cable have arrived.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33793[/ATTACH]

 

Since the Ultra IT is already blocking the DC currents a DC blocker trap filter will most likely not improve SQ. It will probably only dampen the transformer noise, so I have decided to put that plan on ice for the time being.

I have added a TP Link DAP1620 wifi extender close to the Chromecast Audio (approx. 1 metter distance) to ensure best possible reception. If anyone have got an idea where to further improve this chain for reasonable money (except for vibration isolation and room treatments) please let me know your ideas!

 

All-in-all spent on this setup is around USD900 excl. freight charges (room 2 and Anroid tablet is not included). I want to keep it below USD1100 to see how much good sound you can sqeeze out of that amount of money!

 

I found this little nifty passive preamp that I am considering for my low budget setup.

 

Tisbury Audio - Mini Passive Preamplifier

 

Very affordable IMO and looks like a great build. Is there anyone here that have any other recommendations for a affordable passive volume controll or passive preamp that could be a great chiose as well?

 

I am also keeping my eyes open for a second hand Lejonklou Kikkin 2 remote controlled volume control. I should be able to find it in the price range USD220-270. Nothing yet though. Not sure if I have got the calmness needed to wait for it to appear on any classified ads.

 

Anyway, any suggestions are most welcomed!

[Cornan]

I just got reminded how important the galvanic isolation is for network devices. In my low budget setup I installed a TP-Link DAP-1620 wireless AC adapter to get a better reception. I did'nt galvanicly isolate it. Just plugged into another wall outlet 1,5m from my system.

I got my new IsoAcoustic stand for the speakers today and did never listen to music after the installation of the DAP-1620.

Everything sounded aweful, so I played around with the stands since they where my first suspect, new and all. Did'nt help.

Then I realized that the wireless repeater was not tested with music. I simply removed it to hear the effect. Wow! Huge difference! Much much better.

I know one thing. From now on no network device will ever get in my appartment ever again without a proper galvanic isolation from the ac main. Period!

[Cornan]

Listening to Thomas Dybdahl's brilliant album "The Great Plains"

 

http://tidal.com/album/70814562

 

The new stands did make a difference for the better.

 

 

Enjoying myself now when the DAP-1620 is warming up my drawer! ?

[mozes]

I just got reminded how important the galvanic isolation is for network devices. In my low budget setup I installed a TP-Link DAP-1620 wireless AC adapter to get a better reception. I did'nt galvanicly isolate it. Just plugged into another wall outlet 1,5m from my system.

I got my new IsoAcoustic stand for the speakers today and did never listen to music after the installation of the DAP-1620.

Everything sounded aweful, so I played around with the stands since they where my first suspect, new and all. Did'nt help.

Then I realized that the wireless repeater was not tested with music. I simply removed it to hear the effect. Wow! Huge difference! Much much better.

I know one thing. From now on no network device will ever get in my appartment ever again without a proper galvanic isolation from the ac main. Period!

 

Thats my plan as well!

 

 

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[mozes]

Listening to Thomas Dybdahl's brilliant album "The Great Plains"

 

http://tidal.com/album/70814562

[ATTACH]33877[/ATTACH]

 

The new stands did make a difference for the better.

 

[ATTACH]33878[/ATTACH]

 

Enjoying myself now when the DAP-1620 is warming up my drawer! [emoji3]

 

The stands look nice and sleek as well

 

 

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[tapatrick]

I just got reminded how important the galvanic isolation is for network devices. In my low budget setup I installed a TP-Link DAP-1620 wireless AC adapter to get a better reception. I did'nt galvanicly isolate it. Just plugged into another wall outlet 1,5m from my system.

I got my new IsoAcoustic stand for the speakers today and did never listen to music after the installation of the DAP-1620.

Everything sounded aweful, so I played around with the stands since they where my first suspect, new and all. Did'nt help.

Then I realized that the wireless repeater was not tested with music. I simply removed it to hear the effect. Wow! Huge difference! Much much better.

I know one thing. From now on no network device will ever get in my appartment ever again without a proper galvanic isolation from the ac main. Period!

 

Major point Cornan. Thanks for the reminder. [emoji106]

 

 

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[Cornan]

Major point Cornan. Thanks for the reminder. [emoji106]

 

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You're welcome Tapatrick! ? I think I will need to make further experiments on this matter. It just strucked me that the Chromecast Audio is already galvanicly isolated, but the AppleTV and the Chromecast HDMI is not. Potential sq improvements are just around the corner! ?

[mozes]

Need some help pls.

My wireless bridge is powered by a battery. I have two batteries so one is usually connected and the other one is on the charger.

Everytime I change the battery I lose connection to my Nimitra and I can no longer access Jremote on my iphone or BubbleDS Next on my android tab.

The only way to get the system back online is to go upstairs and reboot the main router which is becoming frustrating. I know it has to do with ip address but don't know to fix it!

 

 

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[Cornan]

Need some help pls.

My wireless bridge is powered by a battery. I have two batteries so one is usually connected and the other one is on the charger.

Everytime I change the battery I lose connection to my Nimitra and I can no longer access Jremote on my iphone or BubbleDS Next on my android tab.

The only way to get the system back online is to go upstairs and reboot the main router which is becoming frustrating. I know it has to do with ip address but don't know to fix it!

 

 

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You'll need to get yourself a power bank for the wireless bridge. A power bank will supply constant power to the bridge. Instead of changing the batteries you pull out the charger lead everytime you listen to music and plug it in everytime you are done. This will ensure a prolonged battery life (since you only use a small part of a complete charge cycle every time), better sound (since the battery is most likely more charged) and constant power feed to the bridge. Choose a power bank with good quality battery cells and with only one USB power output (not 2 or more) for best results. ?

[mozes]

You'll need to get yourself a power bank for the wireless bridge. A power bank will supply constant power to the bridge. Instead of changing the batteries you pull out the charger lead everytime you listen to music and plug it in everytime you are done. This will ensure a prolonged battery life (since you only use a small part of a complete charge cycle every time), better sound (since the battery is most likely more charged) and constant power feed to the bridge. Choose a power bank with good quality battery cells and with only one USB power output (not 2 or more) for best results. [emoji4]

 

Thanks @Cornan for the quick reply. I am using the standard power banks for mobile phones with two usb outputs. These switch off when the charger is connected. I will look for a good battery as you suggested

 

 

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[Cornan]

I found this very valuable switched regulated power supply which is galvanicly isolated from the ac mains https://banggood.app.link/wclB3lb9lB that I am considering to use for my AppleTV. Since my Chromecast HDMI is not used that much I will just get a USB A to USB micro cable with a online on/off switch and put it off when not in use.

But first I'll want to try to unplug both devices and listen for any sq improvements. I will try it this weekend.

[Cornan]

Thanks @Cornan for the quick reply. I am using the standard power banks for mobile phones with two usb outputs. These switch off when the charger is connected. I will look for a good battery as you suggested

 

 

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You're welcome Moussa! ?

I can recommend the TP-Link Vivid 6700mAh power bank. I have four of them and they work and sound great. This one is also a great cheap li-ion battery pack https://banggood.app.link/993dnM5WnB (they supply different AC mains plugs for free if you ask them)

 

Both of these do not switch off the power feed when charging.

 

However, there are many others as great out there! ?

[mozes]

Great will check it out later tonight and probably order two

 

 

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[mozes]

You're welcome Moussa! 

I can recommend the TP-Link Vivid 6700mAh power bank. I have four of them and they work and sound great. This one is also a great cheap li-ion battery pack https://banggood.app.link/993dnM5WnB (they supply different AC mains plugs for free if you ask them)

 

Both of these do not switch off the power feed when charging.

 

However, there are many others as great out there! 

I just ordered two of https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-6700mAh-Portable-Smartphones-TL-PBG6700/dp/B01GJ782FC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489120685&sr=8-1&keywords=TL-PBG6700

I wish I knew about it before I bought the other two that I have

[mozes]

I received my BK 1604A and yes it hums a bit but I am lucky it is sitting upstairs in my living room away from my music room. If it is quiet I can hear it from around 2 meters. The good thing is that it made a nice uplift in Tidal streaming

 

@moussaobeid Does your BK 1604A hum a little? Mine is fairly audible from several feet away, but luckily it's an a different room than my audio system, it's still bothers me a little though.

 

Also i used a Kill-O-WAtt meter to test the output with both modem and router connected and the ratings are very small so i don't believe the BK should be overloaded at all. Here's the readings I got (max ratings listed):

 

VA = 53

P.F. = .7

Amps = .43 (not sure this is correct, i may have written it wrong)

Watts = 38

 

I believe the BK 1604A is rated at 150VA

[Cornan]

I received my BK 1604A and yes it hums a bit but I am lucky it is sitting upstairs in my living room away from my music room. If it is quiet I can hear it from around 2 meters. The good thing is that it made a nice uplift in Tidal streaming

 

Thanks for sharing! ?

Transformer hum is a bugger. The options you've got is to add a mains DC blocker or dampen the chassi. I actually use my Auralex MoPads on top/sides of my Ultra IT that is locked inside a cabinet and it is standing on a brick with damping feets. Still audible a meter from the cabinet when everything is silent. I will add some more damping under the IT and the brick plus on front/back as well. I would prefer to end up with no audible hum so I can have it on all the time.

 

Great to hear it improved SQ with Tidal! ?

[Cornan]

I just ordered two of https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-6700mAh-Portable-Smartphones-TL-PBG6700/dp/B01GJ782FC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489120685&sr=8-1&keywords=TL-PBG6700

I wish I knew about it before I bought the other two that I have

 

Great! I think you will also like the look and feel on those powerbanks. Note that there is no AC wall adapter plug included with the Vivid. Just a USB A to USB mini cable. I guess you have some left from your other battery packs or from mobile phones/tablets etc, but to really make use of the quick charging speed you'll need a >5v/2,4A adapter.

 

I like those Vivid so much that I might order 4 more just in case they'll be discontinued! ?

[mozes]

I borrowed a Vbus2 and plugged it between my intona and RUR a couple of days ago. Honestly I couldn't really be sure that there is any effect on my system's sound. Maybe I heard a bit more details with a bit more brightness but I wasn't sure and thought it was my placebo. So I left it plugged in and decided to come back to it later to give it some time to settle. I know that we are always more sensitive to detecting losses than gains in anything, this is human nature.

 

Today I played one of my favourite tracks and then I unplugged the Vbus2 and played it again and noticed that the vocals lost some weight and the music overall became slightly thinner, subtle but detectable. I could only notice that with A/B comparison in a quiet room. So the Vbus2 will stay in my system now between the intona and RUR, happy with whatever performance boost it contributes given its low cost.

 

It seems that the USB game is abut to change big time very soon with new gadgets to hit the market, so I may need to revisit my usb chain in a couple of months