The true experimental tweak thread

[elan120]

1 minute ago, lmitche said:

I'd be very surprised if the lt3045s didn't improve the SQ of the devices powered by the JS-2 and PHynes supplies.

That would be very good to know.  If it will improve these power supplies, using something like Y-cable to split output currents among different devices would be a good ways to go.  Would be even better if the future LT3045 board will be designed with 4 LT3045 to increase total output current up to 2A, that will make it even more flexible.

[Forehaven]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

7 to 5 volts is working well here from an lps-1 feeding an USB card internal power  connector. There is a definite SQ benefit. @tapatrickwhat's the biggest voltage drop you've successfully used? I agree 9 to 5 is likely too far but then 9.5 to 7 to 5 should work fine, so it's a good use of serial lt3045s.

 

The lps-1 and Iso Regen both use linear technology LDOs internally.

 

I haven't tried grounding these LDOs and see no need to do so here as everything is lps powered except the PC motherboard which is galvanically isolated via all connections.

 

 

Larry and tapatrick, if you've already tried, what the incremental improvement by going 3 over two boards in series.  Other than specs of .04 to .02uv is all I've read/seen so far.

 

And I have a Teradak DW30 coming...how important is it to exchange the caps?  I have never done an exchange before.

[sandyk]

5 minutes ago, Forehaven said:

Larry and tapatrick, if you've already tried, what the incremental improvement by going 3 over two boards in series.  Other than specs of .04 to .02uv is all I've read/seen so far.

 

Putting them in series is unlikely to improve noise figures to any worthwhile extent. (if at all)

 Carefully matching their output voltages and putting them in parallel will further improve the noise level, as well as decrease their output impedance. At this already ULTRA low noise level, any further reduction in noise level is almost certainly overkill.

[lmitche]

15 minutes ago, Forehaven said:

Larry and tapatrick, if you've already tried, what the incremental improvement by going 3 over two boards in series.  Other than specs of .04 to .02uv is all I've read/seen so far.

 

I haven't tried this and so can't comment. I have no plans for more boards.

15 minutes ago, Forehaven said:

 

And I have a Teradak DW30 coming...how important is it to exchange the caps?  I have never done an exchange before.

Again, I have no idea.

[sig8]

Can someone provide a link to LT3045 regulator boards, and input/output connectors. I found one on ebay, but that shows output current to be only 0.5A.

 

How do you adjust the output voltage? Does each board drops the voltage by 1V, so two boards in series would drop the output voltage by 2V?

[sandyk]

Note that the 1A version PCB has 2 parallel 500mA LT3045.

The voltage drop doesn't need to be 1V, it can be a couple of volts higher, provided it isn't drawing too much current and becoming too hot,  or say .5V which would be above it's minimum Voltage Regulation drop out voltage.

You need to state the required output voltage when ordering them. The output voltage is set by fixed resistors.

[Solid-State]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LT3045-A-Ultralow-noise-lt-0-8-Vrms-LDO-linear-regulator-0V-15V-1A-Fixed-out-/253204562823?

[Forehaven]

7 hours ago, Forehaven said:

Larry and tapatrick, if you've already tried, what the incremental improvement by going 3 over two boards in series.  Other than specs of .04 to .02uv is all I've read/seen so far.

 

And I have a Teradak DW30 coming...how important is it to exchange the caps?  I have never done an exchange before.

Accord to this:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-power-supplies-part3-smps-lps-supercap-battery-diy-route-new-devices-opens-up-new-options.822160/

 

Other possible caps I could have used that are excellent:
United Chem KZ (5000hr - 18mOhm, 2.7A) $1.00each
Pannasonic FM (7000hr - 15mOhm, 2.55A@120Hz) $1.40each
 

The DW30 I bought uses the FM's already so I think I'm good on capacitors...tapatrick?

[Cornan]

13 hours ago, Cornan said:

Now I cannot wait to get the LM317 into place as well. I got the parts today.

 

I was about to prepare myself this morning so I could put the LM317 pre my Aries Mini together right after work. *Sigh!* I did´nt remember that I have run out of screw terminal DC2.1/5.5mm jacks.  I think I had roughly 15 pcs screw terminals in my drawer...but they´re all male plugs. Bummer! I just order new jacks today that will hopefully arrive before the weekend.  

 

Still no sign of the BluWave PCB or my special order Supra staruad XLRs for my speakers either. I guess it is grounding experiments on the menue tonight.  

 

Here is my initial plans:

 

1. Try to ground the Aqvox switch GND screw to the Entreq Minimus and see if it improves or not?

 

2. Try to ground port no 2 of my Aqvox switch to Entreq Minimus with my RJ45 grounding plugs to see if that improves or not? Why port no 2? Because JS said that this port should be empty, so my guess is that grounding could be most effective there. I will also try port 4 & 5 since IME other tweaks have been more effective there on the Aqvox switch.

 

3. Try to ground the DC- output of the Gophert powering the ISO Regen to the safety ground receptacle to see if that improves or not? 

[sandyk]

45 minutes ago, Forehaven said:

Other possible caps I could have used that are excellent:
United Chem KZ (5000hr - 18mOhm, 2.7A) $1.00each
Pannasonic FM (7000hr - 15mOhm, 2.55A@120Hz) $1.40each

 

 Where about in the circuit , and what value do you intend using these ?

The use of very low ESR capacitors such as the Panasonic FM with it's very Low ESR is not always suitable at the output of some voltage regulators. Indiscriminate use of very Low ESR electros MAY result in a "hardening" of the sound, and make treble sound a little too "etched."

You will also find that capacitors that are named as audiophile , Nichicon FG, Elna Silmic  for example, are NOT very low ESR types. Sometimes it is best to use a combination of a parallel normal ESR type electrolytic capacitor, and a relatively low ESR type of the same value, such as the Panasonic FC. This also applies to Digital type PSUs !

[tapatrick]

11 hours ago, ted_b said:

Thanks for these ideas.  So...I have two wonderful linear ps's that I'm not currently taking advantage of, but maybe they are too much power for what I need.  They are namely the Hynes SR3-12 (12V, 3A) and Hynes SR7EHD (can be dialed from 9.5V to 19V internally, something like 7a).   Can either or both of these be used, with y cables and dual series LT's to power any of my stuff like:

JCAT USB (5V)

Singxer SU-1 dc kit (5V?)

ISO Regen

Amber Regen

microRendu (currently not in signal path as I'm going direct for the time being)

 

I also have Uptone's JS-2 and the famous LPS-1.  I am having a tough time figuring out the best use of all this inventory with LT3045s.  I have one box coming from tubelover2 (thursday) that is 5V so thought I'd use it on the JCAT card with a rail from the JS-2 (5V?).  Any hep would be appreciated.  Larry has helped me get this far, which believe me, is far (for my brain).

 

@ted_b that’s quite an arsenal of psus you have there. Looks like most of your queries have been answered overnight. I really wanted PHynes psus but the cost and wait made me search out another solution. I suspect the PHynes will benefit the least due to their excellent specs already. But You never know these days...

 

i do know that my LPS1 benefitted with a reg after it but in fact I’m not using it at present due to the Y cable set up I have all powered by my Teradak DC30W. 

 

Regarding the use of more than 1 board. There is a very noticeable positive effect with one LT3045, ie more detail and bigger soundstage, cleaner deeper bass - these are signature effects of lower noise in power source. The addition of a second one is more subtle but quite magical - really amazing bass and expanded, floating soundstage, more ‘air’ it seemed. I’m hoping to try 3 in series too but expect the result to be less dramatic BUT you never know...?

 

Regarding replacing caps in the Teradak. 

I used Nichicon HWs as recommended by Tubelover2. This made the overall sound smoother. 

 

Regarding voltage drop on in series boards. Max I’ve used is from 7.5v to 5v. 0.5 to 3v is max/min range and aid not go to 3. Best to just step down with the  ones available. 

 

I’m hoping Alexey at LDVOR on eBay linked below who supplies the best ones will make 2a versions and may do if asked. 

 

Hope me that helps. All of benefits I mention with the LT3045s are not in isolation but also due to everything Ive picked up on the great CA threads and choosen to focus on. Isolation, grounding, leakage loops etc. Thanks for sharing. 

 

Happy listening!

[sandyk]

37 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

The addition of a second one is more subtle but quite magical - really amazing bass and expanded, floating soundstage, more ‘air’ it seemed.

 

 That may also be due to the small capacitance values used (due to size and space constraints) and type of the electros used on these boards, which would likely result in accentuation of upper high frequency detail, which can be demonstrated to cause this.

 With bass, although it is generally thought of as only LF, it can reduce the rise and fall times of the envelope, often resulting in more impact, although it may also make drums etc. sound a little metallic.

 

Check out the VERY fast rise time of the envelope in this drum recording.

[tapatrick]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 That may also be due to the small capacitance values used (due to size and space constraints) and type of the electros used on these boards, which would likely result in accentuation of upper high frequency detail, which can be demonstrated to cause this.

 With bass, although it is generally thought of as only LF, it can reduce the rise and fall times of the envelope, often resulting in more impact, although it may also make drums etc. sound a little metallic.

 

Check out the VERY fast rise time of the envelope in this drum recording.

Thanks @sandyk very interesting. I don’t profess to understand how all this hangs together but am intrigued by your mention of how timing can be reduced by components on the regs.

 

How would you define the effect of low noise on the power input with these regs or are you saying this is not the reason for what is happening?

[marce]

I have used thes in the past, probably overkill current wise, but worth a look, also used them with their related Vicor isolated power modules...

http://www.vicorpower.com/documents/family_overviews/picor/fo_QPI-input-filters.pdf

 

 

[Cornan]

49 minutes ago, marce said:

I have used thes in the past, probably overkill current wise, but worth a look, also used them with their related Vicor isolated power modules...

http://www.vicorpower.com/documents/family_overviews/picor/fo_QPI-input-filters.pdf

 

 

 

Thanks marce!

Since I do not know how to add those EMI filters inline I just quickly Googled up Schaffner inline DC EMI filter and found this.

 

http://schaffnercn.w-4.ch/index.php?id=1021&type=123&L=0&w4_products[product]=20&cHash=9c063689fff0dacb903751e652c3b371

 

Any idea if this so called DC passthrough EMI filter could be a good idea or not to use together with the voltage regulators? 

Maybe there is a way to use your posted active Picor EMI filters inline with screw terminal DC plugs/sockets? I just cannot picture how? 

 

 

[Cornan]

@marce I also found this EMI filter which is quite inexpensive and seems easy to implement to these eyes. Is it any good though?Also not sure if it says 75 VDC inut or 75 VDC input max (ie 0-75VDC input). Hmmm? 

 

https://www.elfa.se/Web/Downloads/sp/df/FL75L05A_eng_tdspdf.pdf

 

 

It feels like I am entering a new jungle of gadgets here!  Any audio down-sides I should be aware of before entering? 

 

[marce]

I'll have a look at the data sheet later.

The Picor/Vicor stuff I use on military and aerospace layouts, where low noise and isolation of SMPS's is paramount. Used them quite a lot on some of the ANVIC-5 stuff and a couple of other projects. There are lower voltage versions of the picor stuff.

[Forehaven]

Where did you find then tapatrick the HW cap?  All I found was UHW.  

 

 

[BigGuy]

18 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

So far two LT3045's in series seems to be the magic number to reduce noise. But who knows if 3 will be even better? ?

 

If you have a 9v PSU you can power anything in the <7v range with dual LT3045's. If you want to power a 9v device you'll need another PSU.

 

The DC- output grounding is the same one as JS grounding thing! ? Clearly it is best used with Ethernet devices. If used with other devices great care needs to be taken to avoid noice sharing via the ground wires.

The "9V" LPS is actually variable up to 18V but I do not see a 9V LT3045 on the link provided to rb2013 lengthy post.

Are there other output voltages available?

 

Another LPS is nominally 5V but has internal pot for tweaking output. 

Is adjusting up 0.5V and using with 5V LT3045 OK or should I try to give myself a bit more room for error?

[Solid-State]

7 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 Where about in the circuit , and what value do you intend using these ?

The use of very low ESR capacitors such as the Panasonic FM with it's very Low ESR is not always suitable at the output of some voltage regulators. Indiscriminate use of very Low ESR electros MAY result in a "hardening" of the sound, and make treble sound a little too "etched."

You will also find that capacitors that are named as audiophile , Nichicon FG, Elna Silmic  for example, are NOT very low ESR types. Sometimes it is best to use a combination of a parallel normal ESR type electrolytic capacitor, and a relatively low ESR type of the same value, such as the Panasonic FC. This also applies to Digital type PSUs !

"You will also find that capacitors that are named as audiophile , Nichicon FG, Elna Silmic  for example, are NOT very low ESR types. Sometimes it is best to use a combination of a parallel normal ESR type electrolytic capacitor, and a relatively low ESR type of the same value, such as the Panasonic FC. This also applies to Digital type PSUs !"

 

I can see that it's not many people that recommend Mundorf capacitors ,, a little bit strange for me

[Cornan]

12 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

The "9V" LPS is actually variable up to 18V but I do not see a 9V LT3045 on the link provided to rb2013 lengthy post.

Are there other output voltages available?

 

Another LPS is nominally 5V but has internal pot for tweaking output. 

Is adjusting up 0.5V and using with 5V LT3045 OK or should I try to give myself a bit more room for error?

 

You can find the voltages on this post by @tapatrick

 

You can also send a pm to Alexey and ask him for other voltages. He is a really helpful guy!

 

[BigGuy]

50 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

You can find the voltages on this post by @tapatrick

 

You can also send a pm to Alexey and ask him for other voltages. He is a really helpful guy!

 

Thanks.  Listed closest voltages are 9V and 12V.  Looks like I will need to drop Alexey a line.

 

Is 5.5V at the LPS enough leeway for the 5V regulator or, given variability in, too close?

[elan120]

26 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

Thanks.  Listed closest voltages are 9V and 12V.  Looks like I will need to drop Alexey a line.

 

Is 5.5V at the LPS enough leeway for the 5V regulator or, given variability in, too close?

Based on LT3045 datasheet, it has a low dropout voltage at 260mV (0.26V), so the 0.5V of leeway should be more than enough as long as output will not oscillate and drop below the required 260mV.

[Cornan]

9 hours ago, Cornan said:

I guess it is grounding experiments on the menue tonight.  

 

Said and done. Let me say it like this. I love when theories works IRL! ?

 

I grounded the Aqvox switch GND screw to the Entreq Minimus and the Gopherts DC- output to the star-earth receptacle of my PSD.

 

 

This time both worked just great and both increased SQ with a more of that grounding music magic! ?

I did'nt even try to ground any ports on the Aqvox switch. I can clearly tell that's no need.

[octaviars]

As we allready are talking about PSU have anybody been in conntact with PSU from Sellarz in Korea? They have a couple of PSU but the dual output is the one I am intrested in.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULN-PS2-Ultra-Low-Noise-Dual-Positive-Power-Supply-/330869867631?hash=item4d0961846f:g:6XAAAOSwT5tWFzDZ

 

The specs seems to be really good.

 

Noise :  Min. 0.9nV/√Hz @1KHz ~ Max. 5.4nV/√Hz @1KHz 9. PSRR(Power Supply Ripple Rejection) : 132dB(Vs=6V to 30V)

 

I asked them for specs regarding output impedance and the answer was.

 

It is approximately <0.005Ω(@10Hz ~100KHz, 15Vin/10Vout/6A)

 

AC voltage input as follows.

 

Final Output Vdc(Vout)	Transformer’s Secondary Voltage(Vac)
2.5V	7V ~ 8V
3.3V	8V ~ 9V
5.0V	9V ~ 10V
7.0V	10V ~ 11V
8.0V	11V ~ 12V
10.0V	13V ~ 14V
12.0V	14V ~ 15V
15.0V	16V ~ 18V
20.0V	20V ~ 21V
25.0V	23V ~ 25V
30.0V	27V ~ 28V