MQA is Vaporware

[MikeJazz]

 

And yes, it did severely damage CA's reputation in my view. I'm not so sure I'll be visiting the site in the future - definitely not as often as I have in the past.

 

Thanks for the learning experience.

 

It would be your loss. There is real gold in here, but one has to have also a bit of patience. The fact that you can exchange ideas with people like Jussi (developer of hqplayer), like Jesus, guys from uptone audio, Vinnie Rossi, and many other knowledgeable people.

 

I have learned a great deal, even some of the stuff is a bit above what I can digest.

Those people are brilliant and share stuff you with you without the arrogance that I saw in Mr. Lavorgna.

So I have to recognize the end balance in CA is clearly positive!

 

For a take on MQA the best summary I can find is:

Archimago's Musings: COMPARISON: TIDAL / MQA stream & high-resolution downloads; impressions & thoughts...

 

Hope you can stay in and search for the gold.

[christopher3393]

This place is even crazier than I thought.

 

This place is even crazier than *I* thought ;-)

 

You might appreciate this:

 

[Vincent1234]

Easy to do with the 2L test bench files. I did a comparison on the "Belezza crudel" album, would be interesting to have another opinion...

For me unfortunately that would mean software decoding only for now. Just checking: you also only used software to decode?

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Vincent1234]

You might appreciate this:

 

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Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[jbwhite]

Your writing skills appear to have undergone a 180 degree change... :-)

 

Very true. I started to realize it was more important to type fast than it was to think or check for typos.

[jbwhite]

It would be your loss. There is real gold in here, but one has to have also a bit of patience. The fact that you can exchange ideas with people like Jussi (developer of hqplayer), like Jesus, guys from uptone audio, Vinnie Rossi, and many other knowledgeable people.

 

I have learned a great deal, even some of the stuff is a bit above what I can digest.

Those people are brilliant and share stuff you with you without the arrogance that I saw in Mr. Lavorgna.

So I have to recognize the end balance in CA is clearly positive!

 

For a take on MQA the best summary I can find is:

Archimago's Musings: COMPARISON: TIDAL / MQA stream & high-resolution downloads; impressions & thoughts...

 

Hope you can stay in and search for the gold.

I agree with everything you say. And I have read a lot from the people you mention. And now that I think about, a lot was on CA forums (although it was accessed via the Google search engine), some of it was on the Roon forum, and I've read their work in other places. I use HQ player on two microRendus. I use a Sonic Transporter I5 to serve up my music with Roon. I use Sonicorbiters for listening areas where SQ isn't as important to me. So I've obviously read a lot from the people selling those products and I think it's great they spend so much time on the internet supporting their products and selling their products. And yes, in my search for MQA information I read everthing I could find written by Jussi, and he has very valid concerns about it that I share. I'm sure a lot of the positive brand image I have of CA is based on having access to all of this information.

 

My only quibble is with "a little bit of patience." In my many years of seeking information on the internet I've never felt the need to exercise patience. I am often frustrated with how difficult information is to find. But I have never felt like people were deliberately trying to block my access to information until I visited this thread.

[realhifi]

 

Now that an internet based 'shop' can stock all the possible formats, and end users can buy DACs can play all these formats the only advantage of having a single winner is perhaps to avoid end user confusion, and for the record labels to not need to do so many different sorts of mastering.

 

Which to MANY end users is HUGE. Remembering which format of a certain recording one has, making sure the playback device of that certain format is tuned or cleaned or whatever. Taking care of that lp, cd, nas, etc. Storing each format. The list goes on. Now for a dyed in the wool audiophile, this is less a chore than it is a passion of the hobby.

Only problem is that the LARGE majority of music listeners in the world are not that passionate. They don't want multiple formats, multiple devices to play them on, multiple physical copies or multiple file types to listen to. They want to walk into their home at the end of the day and listen to some music. They're not going to compare file a to file b or a to b to c or jump through any other hoops to find that perfect one. They want to listen to music, period. Do you really think John Q. Public cares about DRM anymore? i don't. Not even remotely on their radar. Why should it be? Are they going to store it? Put it on their iPod? Keep multiple copies? Don't think so. The labels get this, the streaming companies get this and I'm pretty sure Roon and Tidal get it too.

 

Good sounding music with the very least fuss and with an easy interface to access all that music. Sounds like a plan to me.

[MikeJazz]

For me unfortunately that would mean software decoding only for now. Just checking: you also only used software to decode?

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Yes, I used that in combination with a LH Labs Geek Pulse Infinity DAC, on my main system, which is not MQA compatible. So only software decode (tidal). The fact that sofware decode is only available at the desktop system, enforced my to connect my laptop which is also sub-optimal (in my opinion, the latop is not as quite as the linn ds skeaky as a streamer).

[plissken]

Michael has a basic disagreement with you in approach and how human perception works. So he doesn't see the need to use your approach, which he thinks is incorrect, by definition.

 

I'm using his own approach and quoted him directly on it in this very thread.

[jbwhite]

I just noticed I'm not a Newbie anymore! I've been promoted to Freshman Member. Now I understand why it's worthwhile to post to forums - even when I don't have anything of value to contribute. There's nothing like that warm and fuzzy feeling you get from earning a participation trophy.

 

Sorry for going off topic. (I'm trying to learn the etiquette also).

[james45974]

Good sounding music with the very least fuss and with an easy interface to access all that music. Sounds like a plan to me.

 

Except for the 'good sounding music' part, what you are talking about is handled by MP3 very well already for the vast majority of listeners. How small of a niche within a niche is Roon with Tidal with MQA going to be? And realistically, will that niche expand in any meaningful way? I don't see Tidal adding tons of subscribers because of this, they are preaching to the choir so to speak, the general public will have a big yawn over this while the audiophiles continue their debate.

[Rt66indierock]

I am late in the party because we Europeans need also to sleep.

IMO the big players Pandora and Rhapsody will not use MQA for streaming hires content because MQA requires specific hardware to fully access the hires content. That's IMO the weakest point of MQA.

 

I found somehow missing in this thread (I wrote it on the beginning) that usual DSP like room acoustic treatment, headphone crossfeed or simple equalization is not possible with hires MQA content above 24/96. Once DSP is done, resulting digital stream will not be 'authenticated' and no further unfolding occurs in MQA capable DAC. People who are inetrested in hires > 96k are those who own dedicated DACs and who possible use room equalization DSP etc. I see that as weak point of the MQA concept.

 

So ... IMO MQA company did their hires solution too complicated and IMO that's the reason why the big streaming players are coming to stream pure hires.

 

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if someone comes with a different DRM scheme which will not restrict hires to dedicated HW and which will allow DSP on hires content.

 

The question is: How much are audiophiles important for the market to get special treatment for hires? That's the point where I am feeling myself uncertain.

 

Welcome you are bit late this party started at T.H.E. Show 2016 in June of 2016. When I told MQA representatives that the amount music converted to MQA was not enough and I going to declare it vaporware on January 2, 2017. I told John Atkinson (editor of Stereophile) the same thing on Friday of RMAF 2016 in October. I gathered data including the 15,000 number of hi-res albums announced at CES 2017 on January 5, 2017 and that Tidal was going to start streaming a small number of MQA files in 2017 decoding the MQA in their software. I wrote the post December 31, 2016 edited and fact checked it January 1, 2017 to make sure MQA was going to meet my definition of vaporware (.25% of the population) then I posted it January 2, 2017 inviting everyone. A small party became bigger than I imagined. I expected the response to be maybe 50 comments and 1,000 views.

 

You made some good points that are important to this discussion thanks.

 

As to your question in the United States I’m not sure audiophiles matter to the market not enough of them. Considering the number of why do they hate us columns audiophiles may actually hurt the market.

[NOMBEDES]

As to your question in the United States I’m not sure audiophiles matter to the market not enough of them. Considering the number of why do they hate us columns audiophiles may actually hurt the market.

 

 

WTF?

 

"number of why do they hate us columns"?

[realhifi]

Except for the 'good sounding music' part, what you are talking about is handled by MP3 very well already for the vast majority of listeners. How small of a niche within a niche is Roon with Tidal with MQA going to be? And realistically, will that niche expand in any meaningful way? I don't see Tidal adding tons of subscribers because of this, they are preaching to the choir so to speak, the general public will have a big yawn over this while the audiophiles continue their debate.

 

I don't think the general public wants to give up their cd collection yet. The way that Roon and Tidal work together and pull the customers cd (ripped) collection into an interface that also streams millions of albums seamlessly AND has internet radio all in one spot makes a lot of sense. Maybe even more sense than Sonos. The interface is easier, the ability to expand to other rooms is similar (if not maybe a little easier also) and with the radio feature in Roon you are basically getting Pandora style streaming included. Not a big leap for people to take from Pandora to Roon / Tidal I believe.

 

I'm pretty sure I can sell it when I have a fairly well heeled client that is building a home and they want decent multi room music. In other words, non audiophile clientele. Contrary to popular (audiophilles) belief, there happens to be a lot of people that just like good music and do not want to be bothered by all the nuts and bolts. There are lots of them out there and reaching them might not be as hard as you think.

[realhifi]

 

 

 

IMO the big players Pandora and Rhapsody will not use MQA for streaming hires content because MQA requires specific hardware to fully access the hires content. That's IMO the weakest point of MQA

.

 

What is Rhapsody?

(Just kidding.....sort of)

[jbwhite]

What is Rhapsody?

(Just kidding.....sort of)

At last count (Sep 2016) Rhapsody had 3.5 million paying subscribers to Tidal's 3.0 million to Pandora's 4.0 million. Surprisingly Deezer has more than all of them at 6.0 million.

More Than 100 Million People Now Pay for Streaming Music Services

[crenca]

At last count (Sep 2016) Rhapsody had 3.5 million paying subscribers to Tidal's 3.0 million to Pandora's 4.0 million. Surprisingly Deezer has more than all of them at 6.0 million.

More Than 100 Million People Now Pay for Streaming Music Services

 

I have been holding off on Roon because of Tidal's viability (and now, MQA) - I wonder with others soon providing 16/44 or higher streams (non MQA) if Roon will be working with those services (Pandora, Napster, etc.)?

[jbwhite]

For a take on MQA the best summary I can find is:

Archimago's Musings: COMPARISON: TIDAL / MQA stream & high-resolution downloads; impressions & thoughts...

 

Hope you can stay in and search for the gold.

Thanks for the link. I had already seen that a few days ago. When I saw it I tried to listen to the Buena Vista Club master, directly clicking on the album that was in the "Masters" section. It wouldn't play no matter what I tried. I've played dozens of others with no problem so I assume they pulled it.

[jbwhite]

Roon has publicly stated they would be happy to support other streamers, but Tidal is the only service willing to share the IP necessary to do their thing.

[Samuel T Cogley]

The Tidal desktop app has so many issues. This has always been the case, which probably accounts for some of the popularity of Roon.

 

Finding all the MQA content using the Tidal app is somewhere between tedious and impossible. I can't wait for Roon 1.3.

[jbwhite]

Agreed. I didn't even try the Tidal app for about week because I have no confidence in its SQ. I tried Roon the beginning the day of the launch and concluded the unpacked version didn't do anything for me. I became impatient waiting for Roon so I gave the Tidal App a try. I liked what I heard much better than anything else I tried with the unpacked file. It is definitely an improvement over Redbook streaming - at least to my ears.

[jbwhite]

The Tidal desktop app has so many issues. This has always been the case, which probably accounts for some of the popularity of Roon.

 

Finding all the MQA content using the Tidal app is somewhere between tedious and impossible. I can't wait for Roon 1.3.

Here's a link you might find helpful for finding MQA content

 

 

V_G

3d

 

 

docs.google.com100 [h=3]Tidal MQA Albums - found so far...[/h]Tidal MQA Albums- discovered If you' re adding albums don' t worry about filling these fields in, unless you want to, they just come free with a Roon export., Confirmed MASTER version available in... Main Artist( s, Title, Version, Type, Track Count, Max Media#, Media Count, Duration, Date, Ge...

 

 

if it helps in any way, I imported yours to the google spreadsheet, and filtered out the ones that don't have exact match.

Theoretically we could just copy paste all of it, sort, and then remove duplicates, or try to add one by one the ones that actually are missing (not different spelling).

 

 

[Don Hills]

Very true. I started to realize it was more important to type fast than it was to think or check for typos.

 

In my opinion, placing priority on speed over thinking is a mistake made by too many here.

[Samuel T Cogley]

Here's a link you might find helpful for finding MQA content

 

Thank you. I've seen all that. I was hoping for a way to search in the desktop app that would only return MQA content. Like I said, can't wait until Roon 1.3.

[witchdoctor]

For me unfortunately that would mean software decoding only for now. Just checking: you also only used software to decode?Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Wht not? 96/24 sounds great to me vs buying anew dac.