MQA is Vaporware

[Jud]

I'm good with all of the music by people who are no longer making music. I buy Sturgill's LPs.

 

On this we feel differently, even though I own and use a turntable (for my old record collection - I don't buy new vinyl). Mark Knopfler and Bela Fleck are still making music I want to listen to. I also can't predict the majors won't have any future rock, jazz, classical, c&w, world, folk, trance, etc., music I might want to hear. (Though there was plenty of indie music from Bandcamp and other sites in the past year that I loved.). So I can't be sanguine at the thought of such a possibility.

 

 

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[Michael Lavorgna]

On this we feel differently, even though I own and use a turntable (for my old record collection - I don't buy new vinyl). Mark Knopfler and Bela Fleck are still making music I want to listen to. I also can't predict the majors won't have any future rock, jazz, classical, c&w, world, folk, trance, etc., music I might want to listen to. (Though there was plenty of indie music from Bandcamp and other sites in the past year that I loved.). So I can't be sanguine at the thought of such a possibility.

 

 

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Sure. As "Tom" pointed out, I do listen to music that is released by the big 3. The thing is it's a tiny % of the music I enjoy and it's all available through Tidal.

[kumakuma]

Yes, I missed those. And your point is what? Exactly?

 

I added it to my original post while you were posting your reply.

[Michael Lavorgna]

Really?

 

Kendrick Lamar is an Interscope/Universal artist and Sturgill Simpson records for Atlantic/Warner. I'm sure there's more if anyone wants to dig deeper.

 

The point here is that these three companies control the musical diets of a vast number of people, even those with your refined tastes.

Taste, at least in my experience, is refined just enough to please the taster.

 

My musical diet consists mostly of artists whose music I can buy from sites like Bandcamp. The stuff from the majors I can stream on Tidal. Some of it in hi-res ;-)

[kumakuma]

Sure. As "Tom" pointed out, I do listen to music that is released by the big 3. The thing is it's a tiny % of the music I enjoy and it's all available through Tidal.

 

Tom is my real name so there is no need for quotes. That isn't my real picture though.

[Michael Lavorgna]

Tom is my real name so there is no need for quotes. That isn't my real picture though.

 

Hi Tom - nice to meet you.

[plissken]

I'd recommend reading the comments by CG in all of the Ethernet posts. He is an expert in his field and his field is not limited to IT.

 

I read some posts of his and it would be a good conversation to have.

[kumakuma]

Hi Tom - nice to meet you.

 

Likewise.

[Michael Lavorgna]

I read some posts of his and it would be a good conversation to have.

 

I've learned a lot (lot) from him. Unfortunately, he's not in a position to contribute articles and he's pretty much done commenting on AS due to the abusive responses.

[crenca]

I don't know what you are talking about. That doesn't sound anything like what our relationship is. Even if it was, I don't see the connection to what we've been discussing.

 

She did just interrupt me to eat dinner. But that was a good thing.

Is this on topic for the site? This place is even crazier than I thought.

 

No worries. I was just trying to illustrate why communication is always a bit of a bumpy ride (even - especially, on forums). Your point is taken - we all could do better. However, in reality is is always messy...

[Jud]

Sure. As "Tom" pointed out, I do listen to music that is released by the big 3. The thing is it's a tiny % of the music I enjoy and it's all available through Tidal.

 

Well that was a great big circle.

 

Again we have to (politely) disagree:

 

- All the music I like isn't available on Tidal. It's why I dropped the service.

 

- If it is available on Tidal, we're back to the problem that I don't want Tidal and the other services to eventually standardize on MQA and crowd current hi-res formats out of the market.

 

So we (politely and in a friendly, reasonable, conversational way) differ in our views on this, which is fine. As "my people" might say, "You should live and be well."

 

 

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[Michael Lavorgna]

Well that was a great big circle.

 

Again we have to (politely) disagree:

 

- All the music I like isn't available on Tidal. It's why I dropped the service.

 

- If it is available on Tidal, we're back to the problem that I don't want Tidal and the other services to eventually standardize on MQA and crowd current hi-res formats out of the market.

 

So we (politely and in a friendly, reasonable, conversational way) differ in our views on this, which is fine. As "my people" might say, "You should live and be well."

 

 

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I enjoy our disagreements. I learn from them.

 

Just to clarify, I was referring to music from the big 3 being available on Tidal.

[Michael Lavorgna]

Likewise.

 

 

Apologies for my crankiness. Your point re. the majors is a very good one and has made me think.

 

Cheers.

[kumakuma]

Apologies for my crankiness. Your point re. the majors is a very good one and has made me think.

 

Cheers.

 

I also apologize for the somewhat pointed tone of some of my posts.

 

All the best,

 

Tom

[Jud]

VHS had porn. Betamax didn't.

 

You never saw the Betamax classic, "Mr. Ed Meets Catherine the Great"?

[kumakuma]

You never saw the Betamax classic, "Mr. Ed Meets Catherine the Great"?

 

I think I saw it on Super 8.

[Don Hills]

No, I was tell you my view changed. I never meant to imply that anyone else's views had changed. How to I know what other people think.

 

Your writing skills appear to have undergone a 180 degree change... :-)

[bogi]

The other streaming services may be willing to renegotiate their agreements with the content providers if they think that MQA would save them on bandwidth, or perhaps if the MQA brand would bring them more customers.

 

I am late in the party because we Europeans need also to sleep.

IMO the big players Pandora and Rhapsody will not use MQA for streaming hires content because MQA requires specific hardware to fully access the hires content. That's IMO the weakest point of MQA.

 

I found somehow missing in this thread (I wrote it on the beginning) that usual DSP like room acoustic treatment, headphone crossfeed or simple equalization is not possible with hires MQA content above 24/96. Once DSP is done, resulting digital stream will not be 'authenticated' and no further unfolding occurs in MQA capable DAC. People who are inetrested in hires > 96k are those who own dedicated DACs and who possible use room equalization DSP etc. I see that as weak point of the MQA concept.

 

So ... IMO MQA company did their hires solution too complicated and IMO that's the reason why the big streaming players are coming to stream pure hires.

 

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if someone comes with a different DRM scheme which will not restrict hires to dedicated HW and which will allow DSP on hires content.

 

The question is: How much are audiophiles important for the market to get special treatment for hires? That's the point where I am feeling myself uncertain.

[Vincent1234]

No worries. I was just trying to illustrate why communication is always a bit of a bumpy ride (even - especially, on forums). Your point is taken - we all could do better. However, in reality is is always messy...

 

I think it doesn't need to be messy at all. You just need to make valid arguments in the comments based on proof or at least clear and well-founded observations. As soon as comments are only based on personal assumptions, accusations and what if's, combined with big egos and apparent individual anti-bias the herd jumps off the cliff.

 

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[Vincent1234]

I am late in the party because we Europeans need also to sleep.

IMO the big players Pandora and Rhapsody will not use MQA for streaming hires content because MQA requires specific hardware to fully access the hires content. That's IMO the weakest point of MQA.

 

I found somehow missing in this thread (I wrote it on the beginning) that usual DSP like room acoustic treatment, headphone crossfeed or simple equalization is not possible with hires MQA content above 24/96. Once DSP is done, resulting digital stream will not be 'authenticated' and no further unfolding occurs in MQA capable DAC. People who are inetrested in hires > 96k are those who own dedicated DACs and who possible use room equalization DSP etc. I see that as weak point of the MQA concept.

 

So ... IMO MQA company did their hires solution too complicated and IMO that's the reason why the big streaming players are coming to stream pure hires.

 

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if someone comes with a different DRM scheme which will not restrict hires to dedicated HW and which will allow DSP on hires content.

 

The question is: How much are audiophiles important for the market to get special treatment for hires? That's the point where I am feeling myself uncertain.

 

That's a fair point. In general bandwidth will also become less of a problem over time. Just look at your internet bandwidth now compared to 10 years ago. So MQA's file compression technique will lose some of its advantage over time too.

I think that MQA's unique selling point however is (or should be) in the 'time smearing' area. I would very much like to be able to fully judge that aspect myself, but I will have to wait for dCS's update.

 

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[asdf1000]

Certainly hope you're right.

 

Edit: Of course Apple could change all this tomorrow. Let's hope those 24/96 iTunes masters are what they'll roll out if this happens.

 

 

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Apple have been sitting on possibly the largest Hi-Res libraries on earth for a while right? As a requirement of the "Materer for iTunes" stamp, from all the labels?

 

 

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[Richard Dale]

The current events I was referring to, and I did not list them because I think repeating the same thing over and over can become annoying, is that Pandora and Rhapsody are launching non-MQA hi-res streaming and there are others in the works.

 

I am not saying that MQA is *done*, what I am saying is that there appears to be room for more than 1 hi-res solution based on actual events.

 

With physical media there usually could only be one winner because actual shops couldn't afford to stock more than one format. Also If you bought a player, you had to choose between LP and CD, between Betamax and VHS and so on because one sort of player usually only played one sort of format.

 

Now that an internet based 'shop' can stock all the possible formats, and end users can buy DACs can play all these formats the only advantage of having a single winner is perhaps to avoid end user confusion, and for the record labels to not need to do so many different sorts of mastering.

[firedog]

 

 

Its called exposed.

 

FYI, you exposed nothing. Michael has a basic disagreement with you in approach and how human perception works. So he doesn't see the need to use your approach, which he thinks is incorrect, by definition.

 

You are convinced your approach is the only correct one. That's fine, but you confuse your OPINION with fact. Some of what you seem to think is fact is only your approach and your opinion. It isn't science, it's what you've decided science is. The two aren't equivalent.

 

I'm not arguing with you about what you think is the correct way to evaluate audio. Evaluate it any way you want.

 

I am criticizing your dogmatism, and insistent demands that others' opinions are worthless if they don't toe your line. It also often veers into nastiness and personal invective, which only takes away from the level of discussion for most of us.

[MikeJazz]

MQA? I can't find an equivalent non-MQA-ed file to A/B. The MQA-ed file always sounds "remastered", even compared to a 192kHz file.

Easy to do with the 2L test bench files. I did a comparison on the "Belezza crudel" album, would be interesting to have another opinion...

[MikeJazz]

Archimago's Musings: COMPARISON: TIDAL / MQA stream & high-resolution downloads; impressions & thoughts...

 

As with most his musings I find his technical take on MQA informative.

 

That is a very useful article...

Another point in the direction that "something is going on" on the high frequencies side of the mqa process...aligned with my own listening impressions...