A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Johnseye]

15 minutes ago, rickca said:

I'm confused by a couple of things @romaz said.

 

He says 4 clock replacements on the NUC (system, Ethernet, 2X HDMI).  But @austinpop said he did 3 clock replacements ... USB, ethernet and HDMI.  I think Roy and Rajiv are using the same NUC.  Rajiv, why did you do HDMI instead of the system clock?

 

Why didn't Roy replace the USB clock?  How can he have done 4 clock points if the NUC + tX-USBultra are being clocked by the same sCLK-EX board?  If the board is in the tX-USBultra, it only has 3 available clock points for other devices.

 

You also raise a good point as to why he didn't mod his USB clocks.  I'll check with him.  I know he also wanted to test out SQ over HDMI at some point in the future.

[rickca]

1 minute ago, Johnseye said:

There are 4 clocks but you can use the same sCLK-EX tap for the HDMI ports.

OK good answer, thanks.  I forgot you can daisy chain clocks of the same frequency.  

 

If all the other clocks are subclocks (dPLL) that cannot be replaced ... is the USB clock a subclock?  If so, how did @austinpop replace his USB clock with a tap from his tX-USBultra?

[Johnseye]

Just now, rickca said:

OK good answer, thanks.  I forgot you can daisy chain clocks of the same frequency.  

 

If all the other clocks are subclocks (dPLL) that cannot be replaced ... is the USB clock a subclock?  If so, how did @austinpop replace his USB clock with a tap from his tX-USBultra?

 

The USB clocks aren't subclocks afaik. 

[rickca]

Just now, Johnseye said:

 

The USB clocks aren't subclocks afaik. 

I wouldn't think so either.

[rickca]

1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

He is positively gushing.

He gushes a lot ... but he's also right!

[auricgoldfinger]

15 minutes ago, rickca said:

He gushes a lot ... but he's also right!

 

Absolutely!

[rickca]

Well, after several rather dull days here on AS, things kind of 'sploded today.  It's hard to keep up with everyone's experiments.  Plus another killer DAC review from @austinpop.  Thanks to everyone who takes the time to report their discoveries.

[Johnseye]

2 hours ago, rickca said:

I wouldn't think so either.

 

Got the info from Roy.  I asked him why he didn't mod the USB clock.

 

"Because there is no USB clock to modify.  If you look at Intel's white papers on this i7 board, you'll note that the USB subsystem is on the diecast of the SoC and not separate.  Typical of SoC (System on Chip) boards, there is one system clock that governs all the other clocks (DPLL) on this chip and that one clock is the only clock that is replaceable.  Because board manufacturers like ASUS, Asrock, etc., want control of the types of video ports offered (HDMI, DisplayPort, DVI, VGA, etc), these specific ports are generally never integrated onto the SoC which is why they require separate clocks."

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

The USB clocks aren't subclocks afaik. 

 

And remember gents: The actual clock rates in the chips (USB, Ethernet, the processor, etc.) are mostly generated by PLLs internal to them—with not a huge regard for jitter.  They are at rates vastly higher than what the XOs you are supplanting run at.  

[austinpop]

I was trying to keep from mentioning @romaz since he's staying off the forums, but since @Johnseye spilled the beans... 

 

Indeed Roy and I colluded and both sent our i7 NUCs and tX-USBultra to be modded at about the same time. It looks like John's already clarified the clock question. @rickca I did indeed misspeak. It's the system clock, not the USB clock, as Roy explained.

[austinpop]

10 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

@austinpop were you able to compare an unmodified i7DNBE directly against your modified i7DNBE?

 

No, but Roy has, and he is indeed finding a big improvement.

 

10 hours ago, Johnseye said:

Did they drill holes in your Plato X7D case for the smb connectors?

 

I'll have to double check when I get back home in a few days...

[mourip]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

tX-USBultra

 

Sorry to be dim but...

... is the tX-USBultra  modified to provide an external clock output back to the NUC which is also modified to accept that?

 

Also has anyone compared the tX-USBultra to a Mutec 3+ USB/REF10 combo or is this apples to oranges?

[tims]

1 hour ago, mourip said:

 

Sorry to be dim but...

... is the tX-USBultra  modified to provide an external clock output back to the NUC which is also modified to accept that?

 

I believe the Ultra and NUC were both sent to sotm for modification to do the clock upgrades.

[Johnseye]

7 hours ago, austinpop said:

I was trying to keep from mentioning @romaz since he's staying off the forums, but since @Johnseye spilled the beans... 

 

Indeed Roy and I colluded and both sent our i7 NUCs and tX-USBultra to be modded at about the same time. It looks like John's already clarified the clock question. @rickca I did indeed misspeak. It's the system clock, not the USB clock, as Roy explained.

 

Copyrighted and approved by the author before posting on his behalf.

 

I don't think these results are surprising.  We went through this exercise with the sCLK in the past and I was waiting for confirmation with these NUCs before pulling the trigger myself.  I've had the sNH-10G on loan for a while now and while it is a slight improvement (with master clock using REF10) over the TLS switch, the cost of that switch is 3x the TLS.  Now that I can use the taps from the sCLK in that switch I have further justification for buying it and modding my NUC.  I'm still waiting for Uptone's switch with bated breath.

 

I also just upgraded my Persona 3F speakers to the 9H, and my projector to the new JVC 4k.  The speakers are a substantial, or in Roy's words HUGE, improvement and run at 96db which opens up some doors if I'd like to try some other stuff out.  Yes, I am gushing over these speakers.  It's my belief that speakers have the biggest impact on sound and these should be my endgame there.

[Johnseye]

2 hours ago, mourip said:

 

Sorry to be dim but...

... is the tX-USBultra  modified to provide an external clock output back to the NUC which is also modified to accept that?

 

Also has anyone compared the tX-USBultra to a Mutec 3+ USB/REF10 combo or is this apples to oranges?

 

12 minutes ago, tims said:

I believe the Ultra and NUC were both sent to sotm for modification to do the clock upgrades.

 

Correct, they were sent to SOtM for mods.  The sCLK-EX board which is included in the tX-USBultra has extra clock taps which can be leveraged for other devices.  There are internal cables run from the sCLK-EX to connectors mounted into the chassis of the tX-USBultra.  Then cables are run from those connectors to similar connectors mounted into the NUC case.  Cables run from each clock tap of the NUC board to those connectors mounted into the NUC.

[mourip]

3 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

Correct, they were sent to SOtM for mods.  The sCLK-EX board which is included in the tX-USBultra has extra clock taps which can be leveraged for other devices.  There are internal cables run from the sCLK-EX to connectors mounted into the chassis of the tX-USBultra.  Then cables are run from those connectors to similar connectors mounted into the NUC case.  Cables run from each clock tap of the NUC board to those connectors mounted into the NUC.

 

Thanks. Any idea how much the mods cost?

[Johnseye]

43 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

Thanks. Any idea how much the mods cost?

 

The last I knew enabling each sCLK tap was $50 and each SMB connection was $70.  I've emailed May for pricing and @austinpop should know if that's current.

[mozes]

4 hours ago, Johnseye said:

It's my belief that speakers have the biggest impact on sound and these should be my endgame there.

I agree 100%

[mikicasellas]

Hello Gents,

 

Does "audio" in BIOS should be disabled?

[Johnseye]

8 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

Hello Gents,

 

Does "audio" in BIOS should be disabled?

 

Yes. That should disable your onboard audio chipset.

 

[mikicasellas]

2 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Yes. That should disable your onboard audio chipset.

 

Thank you John!

 

👌

[austinpop]

5 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

The last I knew enabling each sCLK tap was $50 and each SMB connection was $70.  I've emailed May for pricing and @austinpop should know if that's current.

 

If you already have an Ultra (tX, sNH-10G) unit with an sCLK-EX board with 3 free clock points, then the cost to mod the i7 NUC, reprogram the sCLK-EX board, and create the SMB inputs and outputs should be in the $600 ballpark. I got some other work done, so my cost was different.

 

Best is to email May with details. Every project is different.

[mourip]

3 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

If you already have an Ultra (tX, sNH-10G) unit with an sCLK-EX board with 3 free clock points, then the cost to mod the i7 NUC, reprogram the sCLK-EX board, and create the SMB inputs and outputs should be in the $600 ballpark. I got some other work done, so my cost was different.

 

Best is to email May with details. Every project is different.

 

Is the work done by the US distributor or do you need to ship to Korea?

[auricgoldfinger]

12 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

Is the work done by the US distributor or do you need to ship to Korea?

 

You have to send the gear to Korea.  Shipping is expensive, too.

[seeteeyou]

https://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11835#p11835

Quote

2 months ago, i bought new intel I7 (8 gen) nuc, ssd : samsung 970 evo nvme, mainly for hackintosh. 
player: audirvana or hqplayer.

 

https://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11885#p11885

Quote

 

received Odroid board, flashed Archphile, 

 

the sound is much much better than nuc, better than windows + hqplayer, better than mac + audiravana .

 

 

https://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?p=246908#p246908

Quote

We will have a meeting with Intel people in the middle of next week.
I hope there will be a good news but we we have no idea what will happen.

 

Intel boss: Expect chip shortages into mid-2019, stumbling server processor sales this year
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/01/25/intels_2018_financials/

 

Gotta be patient then.