A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[limniscate]

From our initial testing, I will say that the sMS-200 Ultra seems to be more sensitive to the power supply than the microRendu.

[greenleo]

5 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Cost is $472 USD without shipping.  If you're using the sCLK board it would probably be cheaper and better synced with your other devices on that board.

 

 

If you're using an SR7 or other LPSU for your PC it shouldn't matter that much if at all.

SR7 is too far reaching for most, I suppose and the wait is killing.

[greenleo]

6 hours ago, limniscate said:

From our initial testing, I will say that the sMS-200 Ultra seems to be more sensitive to the power supply than the microRendu.

That's what I imagine because it has two clocks.

[seeteeyou]

Such an audacious price tag (850 bucks) for this toy

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=553122278111
http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-535979-1-1.html
http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-536681-1-1.html
http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-536820-1-1.html
http://www.stereosound.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=5938&page=29

http://www.stereosound.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=7274

 

 

 

 

 

 

OCXO turned out to be custom-made as shown in the picture, so far the impressions seemed to be positive as long as USB cables on both ends ain't too bad.

 

Obviously it's a substantial investment and maybe it's more cost effective to get sCLK-EX with four clocks instead IMHO.

[greenleo]

55 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Such an audacious price tag (850 bucks) for this toy

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=553122278111
http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-535979-1-1.html
http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-536681-1-1.html
http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-536820-1-1.html
http://www.stereosound.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=5938&page=29

http://www.stereosound.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=7274

 

 

 

 

 

 

OCXO turned out to be custom-made as shown in the picture, so far the impressions seemed to be positive as long as USB cables on both ends ain't too bad.

 

Obviously it's a substantial investment and maybe it's more cost effective to get sCLK-EX with four clocks instead IMHO.

Was the OXCO wrapped by blanket to keep it warm?

[Johnseye]

5 hours ago, greenleo said:

SR7 is too far reaching for most, I suppose and the wait is killing.

 

Comparing the cost of a standard single rail SR7 with the other LPSU options out there, it's not that much more considering what you get.  It's probably the lowest noise producing power supply available.  Using such a low noise supply on the device that's doing all the heavy lifting is a good investment imo.  Throw on a second rail and you can get an even better supply for your endpoint.  Not only that, I can dual purpose mine so that it can power my turntable.  But wait there's more.  If you act now you can get a set of steak knives absolutely free!

 

Joking aside, the wait is long but I believe worth it.  There are very low cost temporary options available while you wait like the very low cost HDPlex PSU.  

 

My LPS-1 will then go to power the switch that sits between my NAS and PC.  I recently moved my NAS so the only thing between it and the PC is a low power switch.  I'm waiting for Roy's results on the mobo clock mod, and if it's spectacular (not just a slight improvement), I'll look at sending in a mobo and the switch for an sCLK mod to at least improve the most important clocks.

 

Other than that it's only the NAS and I'm surprised no one's discussed modifying that clock as it's the first to feed the music.  I wonder if getting the clock timing nailed on the NAS to start the chain with an sCLK, and synced with the last clock in the endpoint has an impact.  Just thinking off the top of my head, if the first and last clock are in sync with either the sCLK quasi master/slave, or true master clock then would all the clocks in between even matter?

[magnuska]

22 hours ago, Bamber said:

I have used both a LPS-1 (7v) and the a Zero Zone (7v) with iFi DC iPurifier for the mR.  I couldn't hear a difference between these on the mR.  The RuR is running on a (9v) battery.

 

Did your SoTM kit need time to burn in?

 

I've probably used mine for 10 hours so far.

Hi Bamber,

 

I emailed Sotm about burn in. I have the sms-200 ultra and tx-usb ultra since almost 2 weeks now. 

May Park told me that all sotm products need 1 months to fully burn in. The two first weeks one can hear different performance from the units as often as 2-3 hours in between. After two weeks they have settled more. I can agree to this, It is very much so. For me the sms-200 ultra was a clear improvement even from cold compared to mR.

So for all fair comparisions to be made make sure all units are burnt in as much as possible

 

Regards Magnus

[greenleo]

18 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Comparing the cost of a standard single rail SR7 with the other LPSU options out there, it's not that much more considering what you get.  It's probably the lowest noise producing power supply available.  Using such a low noise supply on the device that's doing all the heavy lifting is a good investment imo.  Throw on a second rail and you can get an even better supply for your endpoint.  Not only that, I can dual purpose mine so that it can power my turntable.  But wait there's more.  If you act now you can get a set of steak knives absolutely free!

 

Joking aside, the wait is long but I believe worth it.  There are very low cost temporary options available while you wait like the very low cost HDPlex PSU.  

 

My LPS-1 will then go to power the switch that sits between my NAS and PC.  I recently moved my NAS so the only thing between it and the PC is a low power switch.  I'm waiting for Roy's results on the mobo clock mod, and if it's spectacular (not just a slight improvement), I'll look at sending in a mobo and the switch for an sCLK mod to at least improve the most important clocks.

 

Other than that it's only the NAS and I'm surprised no one's discussed modifying that clock as it's the first to feed the music.  I wonder if getting the clock timing nailed on the NAS to start the chain with an sCLK, and synced with the last clock in the endpoint has an impact.  Just thinking off the top of my head, if the first and last clock are in sync with either the sCLK quasi master/slave, or true master clock then would all the clocks in between even matter?

I do not disagree with your logic but the initial investment is high.  It's not a piece that the majority can afford.  I wish that I could afford the SR7 but I can't right now.  LPS-1 is of more useful features say 3/5/7V outputs with excellent bang for the bucks.

[limniscate]

So from @austinpop and I's testing of his stack (LPS-1 powering everything), I reported that the switch adds a naturalness to the sound; while he reported that the image size was increased.

 

On my switch with the HD-Plex (12V) on the sMS-200 Ultra and a LPS-1 on the switch, the image size seemed bigger, but there was no added naturalness.  Yesterday, we had the switch on a LPS-1 and used two LPS-1 in series on the sMS-200 Ultra, and the naturalness was back, but I didn't notice the image being bigger.  We will try to test this out some more, but I thought the forum may find this interesting.

[paulhynes]

Hello Greenleo,

 

I agree that the SR7 is not a piece the majority can afford. So I have designed a lower power version of the SR7 to fit into an elongated SR3 chassis and this will be designated the SR4. This is a single rail supply and the continuous current rating will be 2A with a transient current rating of 20A. The SR4 has switched outputs of 5/7/9/12V, which should cover most of the digital interface equipment power requirements and the 2A output is available at all the voltage settings as the elongated chassis allows for the extra heat dissipation at lower voltage settings.

 

A new manufacturing facility is currently in preparation here in South Uist and I expect this to start operating in September/October.

 

The SR4 is in production engineering at present and I plan to have this available “Off the Shelf”, as a standard version to replace the SR3 in small quantities initially, from September/October to coincide with the new manufacturing facility start. Price will be circa £330 (currently $421) for all countries excluding Europe where VAT (Value Added Tax) will have to be added to comply with local tax legislation. Customisation outside the range of 5/12v is possible but this will be a made to order option and additional cost may apply for this depending on the level of customisation.

 

Regards

Paul

Paul Hynes Design

 

 

[hols]

I would like to share my experience with the SOtM ts-USB Ultra with 10M reference clock input which has arrived a week ago. So it has been burned in for a week now. I am very much impressed with the ts-USB Ultra which I have reported here almost 2 months ago. As I have been using clocks (Antelope Trinity and 10M(just sold in exchange for a Cybershaft) for several years now I am of course drawn to the idea of adding 10M reference clock to the SOtM ts-USB Ultra and finally my 12V ts-USB Ultra with 10M input arrived. I have fed it with my Uptone JS2 and also use my Cybershaft OCXO 10M reference clock to feed the SOtM ts-USB Ultra using the 50Ohm cable that come with the Cybershaft. I would say the improvement is even greater than the experience of from no SOtM to adding the SOtM ts-USB Ultra. The improvement is mainly in giving a rock solid soundstage, the presence as if in the venue and also the more accurate timbre and timing of different instruments within the orchestra. I don't have the experience of listening to the Mutec 10M reference clock yet. But the Cybershaft which is less than half of the price of the Mutec is actually a very worthwhile addition to the SOtM especially if one is contemplating maximising use of all the 4 clocks from the SOtM. 

 

And I just received my IsoRegen today and I immediately tryied it out onto this USB chain. Based on a brand new isoRegen fed by LPS1 and in my system of Linux HQplayer to Linux NAA playing DSD512 to my Holo Spring Dac the addition of the IsoRegen (behind the SOtM)closest to the DAC actually degrades the sound, losing the soundstage and presence. There is some mid range boost which muddles the sound a bit. Putting it in front of the SOtM is another story. There is actually some improvement to the sound in terms of thicker mids but preserving the good effects of the SOtM. I would say that it is like adding some flavour to the sound and it would depend on individual preference whether it is  'improvement'  or not. I would say the addition of 10M clock gives both more comprehensive improvement as well as more intensive improvement. But I must stress that this is a brand new not yet burned in iso Regen. 

 

And my next move would probably be try to pick a Paul Hynes linear power supply for the SOtM ts-USB Ultra.

[limniscate]

So @austinpop and I think that the Singxer SU-1 has slightly more detail than the dX-USB Ultra, but the dX-USB Ultra may sound a little more dynamic.  This is surprising since the SU-1 is on the stock power supply.

[lmitche]

Hols -Did you try the ISO REGEN with uspcb into the tx-USBUltra?

[rickca]

59 minutes ago, hols said:

I just received my IsoRegen today and I immediately tryied it out onto this USB chain.

Thanks for a very useful post.  Did you try the ISO REGEN/LPS-1 on its own (without tX-USBultra) and compare it to the tX-USBultra on its own?

[Cornan]

5 hours ago, limniscate said:

So from @austinpop and I's testing of his stack (LPS-1 powering everything), I reported that the switch adds a naturalness to the sound; while he reported that the image size was increased.

 

On my switch with the HD-Plex (12V) on the sMS-200 Ultra and a LPS-1 on the switch, the image size seemed bigger, but there was no added naturalness.  Yesterday, we had the switch on a LPS-1 and used two LPS-1 in series on the sMS-200 Ultra, and the naturalness was back, but I didn't notice the image being bigger.  We will try to test this out some more, but I thought the forum may find this interesting.

 

May I suggest that you try powering the switch with battery and the charger disconnected from AC mains. IME especially network switches sounds best with battery power. I strongly believe switches kick a lot of noises back into the AC mains. 

[TopQuark]

6 hours ago, greenleo said:

LPS-1 is of more useful features say 3/5/7V outputs with excellent bang for the bucks.

 

The SR3 alone is very competitive with LPS-1. I have one with variable output 5/7/9/12V and 2.5A (10A transient) with high grade silver contacts for the rotary switch and connectors.  It might be a little more than LPS-1 but definitely worth it.

[mozes]

I received today my VR Mini and wasted no  time, plugged it in the system and ran the tests that I mentioned in a previous thread. I will provide a score out of 100 just to show the magnitude of the differences. These are all my subjective scores with my subjective ears

 

Test 1: objective is to find if there is a difference to where you place the Iso-Regen before or after the tX-USB ultra. so I compared two scenarios:

1-Nimitra>Iso-Regen (USPCB)>tX>Brooklyn: 95

2-Nimitra>tX>Iso-Regen (USPCB)>Brooklyn: 83

 

Very easy test, scenario 1 sounds significantly better. No need to go into details, but simply all what you look for was better, naturalness, body, sound stage depth and width

 

Test 2: Objective is to compare Iso-Regen with the USPCB and tX-USBultra, so I compared two scenarios:

1-Nimitra>tX>Brooklyn: 79

2-Nimitra>Iso-Regen (USPCB)>Brooklyn:76

 

My gear is powered as follows:

Nimitra: VR Mini 1

tX-USB Ultra: Flagship Nikola LPS (12V)

Is-Regen: LPS-1

Brooklyn: VR Mini 2

 

Overall, the best value is Iso-Regen (it is very close like 95% of the tX at 1/3 of the price, ) buit if you want absolutely the best then the wonderful amazing performance of the Iso-Regen in front of the tX is something to be heard to know what digital with a USB chain can do these days!

 

I won't go into technical details of whats going on, I will leave this to other more knowledgeable members, but I will say that the results match my expectations.

 

Hope this helps!

 

[mozes]

2 hours ago, rickca said:

Thanks for a very useful post.  Did you try the ISO REGEN/LPS-1 on its own (without tX-USBultra) and compare it to the tX-USBultra on its own?

see my post just above

 

[greenleo]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

I received today my VR Mini and wasted no  time, plugged it in the system and ran the tests that I mentioned in a previous thread. I will provide a score out of 100 just to show the magnitude of the differences. These are all my subjective scores with my subjective ears

 

Test 1: objective is to find if there is a difference to where you place the Iso-Regen before or after the tX-USB ultra. so I compared two scenarios:

1-Nimitra>Iso-Regen (USPCB)>tX>Brooklyn: 95

2-Nimitra>tX>Iso-Regen (USPCB)>Brooklyn: 83

 

Very easy test, scenario 1 sounds significantly better. No need to go into details, but simply all what you look for was better, naturalness, body, sound stage depth and width

 

Test 2: Objective is to compare Iso-Regen with the USPCB and tX-USBultra, so I compared two scenarios:

1-Nimitra>tX>Brooklyn: 79

2-Nimitra>Iso-Regen (USPCB)>Brooklyn:76

 

My gear is powered as follows:

Nimitra: VR Mini 1

tX-USB Ultra: Flagship Nikola LPS (12V)

Is-Regen: LPS-1

Brooklyn: VR Mini 2

 

Overall, the best value is Iso-Regen (it is very close like 95% of the tX at 1/3 of the price, ) buit if you want absolutely the best then the wonderful amazing performance of the Iso-Regen in front of the tX is something to be heard to know what digital with a USB chain can do these days!

 

I won't go into technical details of whats going on, I will leave this to other more knowledgeable members, but I will say that the results match my expectations.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Thank you.  I guess now we may confirm that the clock of txUltra is better than that of the IR.  Also, the SQ of IR followed by txUltra  is much better than txUltra alone, right?

[rickca]

29 minutes ago, greenleo said:

we may confirm that the clock of txUltra is better than that of the IR

I'm not sure we can definitively say that the SQ difference is attributable to the clock.  SOtM hasn't published any technical performance data for sCLK-EX as far as I know.

[limniscate]

30 minutes ago, rickca said:

I'm not sure we can definitively say that the SQ difference is attributable to the clock.  SOtM hasn't published any technical performance data for sCLK-EX as far as I know.

I agree with @rickca.  The Singxer SU-1 also uses the Crystek 975, and both @austinpopand I thought it sounded better than the dX-USB Ultra (with and without the tX in the chain).  The dX-USB Ultra even had the advantage of being powered by two LPS-1, whereas the Singxer SU-1 was stock.

[ElviaCaprice]

Very interesting, thanks.  I can understand the ISO Regen preceding the Txusbultra as being the most favorable SQ for Mozes.  I'm sure the galvanic isolation helps both clocks (cleaner power operation, less jitter) in the regen and ultra.  But I can only beg to ask the question, after Limniscate's find on SU-1, what if we cascaded two ISO Regens without the galvanic isolation on the second downstream ISO Regen?  How would that compare?

[mozes]

2 hours ago, greenleo said:

Thank you.  I guess now we may confirm that the clock of txUltra is better than that of the IR.  Also, the SQ of IR followed by txUltra  is much better than txUltra alone, right?

Yes especially IR followed by tX, there is a great synergy in this combo 

[mozes]

1 hour ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Very interesting, thanks.  I can understand the ISO Regen preceding the Txusbultra as being the most favorable SQ for Mozes.  I'm sure the galvanic isolation helps both clocks (cleaner power operation, less jitter) in the regen and ultra.  But I can only beg to ask the question, after Limniscate's find on SU-1, what if we cascaded two ISO Regens without the galvanic isolation on the second downstream ISO Regen?  How would that compare?

What is your thinking here? Do you have a specific hypothesis you like to test?

Interesting thought!

[ElviaCaprice]

5 minutes ago, mozes said:

What is your thinking here? Do you have a specific hypothesis you like to test?

Interesting thought!

I'm just thinking that you may get fairly close to the ISO Regen/TxUSB Ultra combo at half the total cost.  Also the ISO Regens are much friendlier cascaded with the new adapter.  You can even use the same LPS-1 power supply for both Regens, no penalty, for a further reduction in cost.