Article: Sonore microRendu Review, Part 2

[sbank]

I ride (AGAT) and drive a cage...guess it is possible to be both a subjectivist (I do trust my ears) and objectivist (I enjoy charts and measurements)...

+1 But now I see that my riding with helmet on explains my choice of using hybrid amplifiers.

[charlesphoto]

Sal1950 - "Making Computer Audio Great Again."

 

Yes, borrowing the tag line from another blow-hard who won't listen to anybody but himself.

[charlesphoto]

And I feel so much "safer" in regards to my stereo now with Sal around. Really not sure how I survived the choices I made before.

[Account Closed]

Another thread hijacked for a personal crusade replete with personal attacks, off-topic rants and very little real information.

 

How about "Make Computer Audiophile Great Again"!

[MikeyFresh]

BTW, for an example of the behaviour of "objectivists" have a look at Audio Science Review where two of the most active threads are "How to get banned" from other forums & how to ban/gag people who challenge them on ASR. Our brother Sal being the most vocal of the voices & no doubt he will return to that lair, telling stories of his derring-do on CA

 

 

EXACTLY!

 

And to Chris' point, I need no knight in shining armor protecting me from the perilous evils of the subjectivist camp brainwashing (because there's really no such thing and even if there were I'm a big boy).

[firedog]

Sal likes to throw his objectivist barbs. But unlike some of that ilk, when I told him -" look, I don't know if I like some of my choices b/c of the placebo effect or b/c they actually are making an improvement. But I don't have a way of measuring or doing a proper blind test. I compare the best I can and try not to fool myself. But in the end I just listen to whatever sounds best to me and don't worry about it", he said that was great. I think his real issue is people not accepting the possibility that differences they hear may not be "real", not what they actually listen to and enjoy.

[Sal1950]

+1

[Superdad]

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f30-abbingdon-music-research-ifi-audio-sponsored/measuring-ipower-much-ado-about-nothing-28982/

[firedog]

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f30-abbingdon-music-research-ifi-audio-sponsored/measuring-ipower-much-ado-about-nothing-28982/

 

Alex, so this is basically agreeing with what you and John speculated about before, that Amir should have used a balanced setup to test?

[pipis2010]

Just curious, when it comes to really expensive components like $5-$10-$20-$50k, do people become so obsessed with measurements as they seem to do over a $600+ device?

[alubis]

In my case, yes. I read measurements in stereophile and hifi news before buying Chord Hugo TT. I'm hoping more measurements showed up in this forum.

Just curious, when it comes to really expensive components like $5-$10-$20-$50k, do people become so obsessed with measurements as they seem to do over a $600+ device?

[Priaptor]

Sal likes to throw his objectivist barbs. But unlike some of that ilk, when I told him -" look, I don't know if I like some of my choices b/c of the placebo effect or b/c they actually are making an improvement. But I don't have a way of measuring or doing a proper blind test. I compare the best I can and try not to fool myself. But in the end I just listen to whatever sounds best to me and don't worry about it", he said that was great. I think his real issue is people not accepting the possibility that differences they hear may not be "real", not what they actually listen to and enjoy.

 

You are putting words in his mouth and manipulating what Sal said. The claims were about saving people money from making dumb purchases (according to his scale); this coming from a motorcyclist no less. It is kind of funny. Just curious why you feel the need to morph his comments into a kinder gentler reconstruction of what he really said. Why do you people always do that.

 

I think it was pretty clear what Sal said.

 

From my perch I am one of those dummies who find the microsonore a great addition.

[vortecjr]

No need to argue...I have the full article from iFi and the measurements will speak for themselves.

[firedog]

You are putting words in his mouth and manipulating what Sal said. The claims were about saving people money from making dumb purchases (according to his scale); this coming from a motorcyclist no less. It is kind of funny. Just curious why you feel the need to morph his comments into a kinder gentler reconstruction of what he really said. Why do you people always do that.

 

I think it was pretty clear what Sal said.

 

From my perch I am one of those dummies who find the microsonore a great addition.

 

"you people" + "always do that" + "coming from a motorcyclist"- classic use of stereotyping and generalization - both about me and Sal. From someone who claims to be the only one on the forum who knows the facts about almost every topic. Suggestion: check yourself for your own prejudices before accusing others.

 

I have my view of Sal based on what I consider the entirety of his posts, not just the ones I find obnoxious or annoying.

As a matter of FACT, Sal responded to me in just the way I've described in another thread, and AFAIR has done the same in a few other cases where similar ideas were expressed. So please tell me how I'm "putting words into his mouth", when I'm factually reporting how he responded to me.

 

For the record, I was one of the first to order a mRendu, and happy with it. I think it improves the sound of my system. That's based on my subjective listening experiences. I don't deny the possibility that what I 'm hearing is some kind of expectation bias .

[firedog]

No need to argue...I have the full article from iFi and the measurements will speak for themselves.

 

When do we get to see the measurements?

[Priaptor]

"you people" + "always do that" + "coming from a motorcyclist"- classic use of stereotyping and generalization - both about me and Sal. From someone who claims to be the only one on the forum who knows the facts about almost every topic. Suggestion: check yourself for your own prejudices before accusing others.

 

I have my view of Sal based on what I consider the entirety of his posts, not just the ones I find obnoxious or annoying.

As a matter of FACT, Sal responded to me in just the way I've described in another thread, and AFAIR has done the same in a few other cases where similar ideas were expressed. So please tell me how I'm "putting words into his mouth", when I'm factually reporting how he responded to me.

 

For the record, I was one of the first to order a mRendu, and happy with it. I think it improves the sound of my system. That's based on my subjective listening experiences. I don't deny the possibility that what I 'm hearing is some kind of expectation bias .

 

For the record, I am quoting Sal's higher than tho comments of being the arbiter of what makes a sensible monetary choice ON THIS THREAD, which is quite absurd on its own merits and even more absurd when you consider his choices elsewhere in life, such as the purchase of a motorcycle.

 

For the record I could care less what Sal chooses in life and if motorcycles or measuring the movement of electrons floats his boat great. It is the dogmatic rhetoric from those like Sal who think they are the voice of good choice and believe they "know" what YOU should purchase.

 

For the record I too was one of the first to get one and I really really like it with my ladder DAC. I am soon going to do some testing comparing it feeding my MSB Diamond Plus vs. T&A upsampled to DSD512 IF my new computer ever arrives before I leave again.

 

No more Sal. We can agree to disagree on Sal because I know there is a lecture coming from you claiming I do the same thing.

 

Let's discuss the microRendu (on this microRendu forum) one of my favorite high end tweaks in a long time.

[tranz]

...

Let's discuss the microRendu (on this microRendu forum) one of my favorite high end tweaks in a long time.

 

Prove it... (tongue firmly planted in cheek[emoji83])

[Priaptor]

Prove it... (tongue firmly planted in cheek[emoji83])

 

Well for one, I love it's footprint, ease of use. I can, at this time, only speak to it's use in the specific situation I am using it. Right now I am using it strictly as an NAA endpoint to my MSB Diamond Plus which is a ladder DAC and find it truly excellent and better than any CAPS I have tried. On the recommendation of some here, I have tried HQP with my MSB as a player without any filters or upsampling instead of JRiver and really like the results. I like the results even more so with the microRendu even more than the CAPS.

 

How is that for a start.

[Sal1950]

I am soon going to do some testing comparing it feeding my MSB Diamond Plus vs. T&A upsampled to DSD512 IF my new computer ever arrives before I leave again.

 

Will you be running those tests under bias controlled non-sighted conditions? If so I anxiously await the publishing of the results.

[Richard Dale]

Will you be running those tests under bias controlled non-sighted conditions? If so I anxiously await the publishing of the results.

 

Have you personally ever run tests matching the above description and published the results?

[BobSherman]

No need to argue...I have the full article from iFi and the measurements will speak for themselves.

 

 

Thank you

[BobSherman]

Will you be running those tests under bias controlled non-sighted conditions? If so I anxiously await the publishing of the results.

Is that how you ride your bike? Non-sighted???

[Priaptor]

Will you be running those tests under bias controlled non-sighted conditions? If so I anxiously await the publishing of the results.

 

Just preference. Trust me nothing would make me happier than to like the cheaper alternative and sell the MSB. I don't profess to be the last word in audio, but have been at this since the early 80s and was also dealt high end audio equipment in the NYC area during the early to mid 80s. I consider myself pretty good at getting the best out of a system and setting things up. My "reputation" at the time was for setting up turntables. I got to see and hear some amazingly expensive equipment; one thing that amazed me in so many cases was how so many people spent so much on equipment with no attention to setup. While you like to see validation with specs, which is fine, my issue with so many, is spending so much on equipment and then paying no attention to setup or not having the space to get the best sound and then going on to buy something new thinking that will fix what can't be fixed.

 

My limited experience to date with the T&A is with a CAPS/JCAT USB card upsampling with JRiver with my headphones. My current high end computer can't handle the upsampling and am hoping early next week to get my new computer and do some legitimate comparisons.

[sbank]

my issue with so many, is spending so much on equipment and then paying no attention to setup or not having the space to get the best sound and then going on to buy something new thinking that will fix what can't be fixed.

So true and quite often the difference between the average visitor saying "Your stereo costs how much?" and "Wow, I've never heard music sound so good".

[speshal]

I rarely get on audiophile forums, and this thread is perfect proof why

 

Here's one secret measurement that I've found to be foolproof - audiophile forum post counts.

 

Super high post counts are almost always indicative of audiophiles you SHOULDN'T listen to.

 

What person with a good system would prefer to post constantly on an audiophile forums...especially to take extreme positions such as.... "my ears are infallible - subjectivity rules - measurements are worthless" or "measurements quantify everything human ears can hear - bad measurements always show scam products"

 

This thread should have died long ago. Amir posted some measurements. Superdad responded from the other side claiming that the measurements are inaudible and/or done wrong. That should be it for now until any new relevant information is provided from either side. Instead, it's turned into arguments about generalities and extreme positions.

 

I question anyone who strictly buys gear based on measurements. On the flip side, anyone who ignores relevant measurements/physics is going to fall prey to gear mismatches and worse (i.e. snake oil salesmen).

 

This is deja vu with the Regen a year ago. I got into an argument with Bob Katz (and Bruno Putkeys via Bob) about the viability of the Regen. They were in the Amir camp (with far more credentials and expertise than Amir). I argued that certain DACs and low quality servers could gain an audible benefit trying it...especially at the price. They claimed it was worthless and a scam. Once they started making those claims, I just exited and went back to listening to my system because it was clear nothing I could say would change their mind. All I said was.."We'll see in a year how many people successfully enjoy it and how many copycat products get made from other firms."

 

Even though my prediction came true, it doesn't make me 100% right because I also know there are gear combos where the Regen does little to nothing audible. However, it's clearly not a scam or worthless for many people either.

 

Being an audiophile doesn't mean you have to post incessantly on forums, take extreme positions, and be paranoid about any contrarian view. If so, I'll happily return my membership card.

 

If you bought and like the microRendu and have confidence in what you hear, then just laugh at the naysayers and listen to your system versus arguing on a forum. It only sabotages your credibility and shows paranoia doing otherwise.

 

If you think the microRendu is a scam product, then provide comprehensive and well-done measurements that are applicable to human hearing. Also make sure you take into account any positives in one area that may offset negative measurements in another area.