USB Disruptor

[Jud]

From the USB Disruptor website:

 

The diagram below shows how a slight change in timing can affect the perceived position of an instrument, the large black dot.

 

 

Based on what is not happening [as described earlier on the web site, there is no difference in frequency response - Jud], and based on the fact that USB Disruptor makes an audible difference, and that claim has been substantiated by several customers and professional reviewers, then the conclusion must be that USB Disruptor is eliminating a kind of interference from the computer that affects the timing of musical signals. That theory accounts for what we’re observing.

 

 

We did some testing on a two channel system playing Crosby, Stills, and Nash Guinnevere in 16/44 resolution. We did A/B tests with the USB Disruptor in and out of the signal chain. We found unequivocally that positions of voices in space change with and without the device engaged. With the unit installed the performers are discretely in space, you can easily pick them out. Without the device the sound flattens, voices are not as easily distinguished in space, they sort of bleed together a bit. We repeated the test six times with the same results.

 

 

We conclude that USB Disruptor corrects time domain distortions caused by dirty USB power and other signal interference attributable to the use of the computer’s 5 volt power feed.

 

So firedog, I wouldn't take this to be the sort of subjective effect that can't be verified empirically. Rather, from the website description, I would take it to be the sort of very predictable and repeatable subjective response obtained when, for example, phase effects are used to very predictably and exactly affect our perceptions of vocal and instrument locations in a Roger Waters album. So I would not think there should be any problem reproducing timing effects such as those described and illustrated on the website.

[dean70]

From the USB Disruptor website:

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23244[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

So firedog, I wouldn't take this to be the sort of subjective effect that can't be verified empirically. Rather, from the website description, I would take it to be the sort of very predictable and repeatable subjective response obtained when, for example, phase effects are used to very predictably and exactly affect our perceptions of vocal and instrument locations in a Roger Waters album. So I would not think there should be any problem reproducing timing effects such as those described and illustrated on the website.

 

It is more likely the room or the speakers/positioning would cause this...anyhow...

[firedog]

From the USB Disruptor website:

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23244[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

So firedog, I wouldn't take this to be the sort of subjective effect that can't be verified empirically. Rather, from the website description, I would take it to be the sort of very predictable and repeatable subjective response obtained when, for example, phase effects are used to very predictably and exactly affect our perceptions of vocal and instrument locations in a Roger Waters album. So I would not think there should be any problem reproducing timing effects such as those described and illustrated on the website.

 

Yes, I thought of that. But Rob saying people can hear it doesn't count as data/testing that is repeatable and testable. He'd need a more precise description-setup, and then data/description on exactly what the tested effect is supposed to be.

[master]

I (and others) asked for this...

 

Anyone who has the right equipment and is willing to explain their procedure in sufficient detail that someone else with similar equipment might reproduce it. I've found that those who fudge the results tend to gloss over the explanation part.

 

But obviously you cannot give what you don't have and what you don't know, so naturally this is all the expectation that anyone can have from you…

 

My what a hugely entertaining thread, and it only gets better!

 

Carry on folks, Rob isn't going to get it, or maybe he gets it, but still insists on being the pushy salesman.

 

I get it though, Rob isn't going to give any answers or even make an attempt to answer a direct question, much less provide proof of anything.

 

So that only leaves us with 2 choices, Rob gets banned and the selling stops, or we have an entertaining time of it while it lasts.

 

As expected (and predicted) that was your only response…

 

I'm glad this is entertaining for you. Hiding in anonymity makes it easier to bully others, that's been proven. The proof is on the website, if you accept it for what it is, great, if not, believe what you want.

 

I don't follow what you mean about being a pushy salesman. If what you mean is my response to bullying and other attacks from competitors then what's the point of a forum. A forum is a place to share ideas, and discourse.

 

You're branding me a pushy salesman, which is pretty akin to a liar, so you're kind of calling me a liar I think. Is that right, is that what you mean by being a pushy salesman?

 

Or is my defense of your comments what you consider to be pushy salesmanship?

 

If I get banned from a public forum for defending myself from attacks from anonymous bullies then good, I don't want to be a part of it.

 

Comprende? Bet you don't…

 

So to cut it short…

 

You're branding me a pushy salesman, which is pretty akin to a liar, so you're kind of calling me a liar I think. Is that right, is that what you mean by being a pushy salesman?

 

What do you think? Would you buy from anyone like you who refuses to answer direct questions and instead chooses to go about in circles?

 

But all said and done…

 

Rob isn't going to get it

 

I rest my case...

[seeteeyou]

You know, sometimes a link like this could come in handy:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=26137

[robpriore]

From the USB Disruptor website:

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23244[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

So firedog, I wouldn't take this to be the sort of subjective effect that can't be verified empirically. Rather, from the website description, I would take it to be the sort of very predictable and repeatable subjective response obtained when, for example, phase effects are used to very predictably and exactly affect our perceptions of vocal and instrument locations in a Roger Waters album. So I would not think there should be any problem reproducing timing effects such as those described and illustrated on the website.

 

Jud, if you had the unit would you be able to run the test you suggested? Or other tests?

[robpriore]

It is more likely the room or the speakers/positioning would cause this...anyhow...

 

That would not be the case because the speakers stay in the same position in your home, you just switch the USB Disruptor in and out of the signal and you can hear the changes.

[robpriore]

I (and others) asked for this...

 

 

 

But obviously you cannot give what you don't have and what you don't know, so naturally this is all the expectation that anyone can have from you…

 

 

 

As expected (and predicted) that was your only response…

 

 

 

Comprende? Bet you don't…

 

So to cut it short…

 

 

 

What do you think? Would you buy from anyone like you who refuses to answer direct questions and instead chooses to go about in circles?

 

But all said and done…

 

 

 

I rest my case...

 

Anyone who has the right equipment and is willing to explain their procedure in sufficient detail that someone else with similar equipment might reproduce it.

 

This is exactly the case, I have given detailed descriptions of how to reproduce the effects. This is part of the instructions and I used to have this on the site but took it down, but here is what comes with the unit:

 

Setup and testing –

We advise you to consider testing USB Disruptor in the way described below in order to train your ears. This is a good way to isolate the differences.

I used an average USB powered headphone amp/DAC combo for testing. I used a highly rated though low cost professional over the ear headphone. I used Jriver 19, the DAC automatically sets to WASAPI output, and for this test HD Tracks 96/24 The Carpenters, Top of the World. I’m giving you the exact track so you can duplicate my testing procedure exactly, so that you will hear exactly the difference.

First listen with USB Disruptor connected. Play Top of the World and listen for the electric piano, it should be to the left, but almost below your ears, not the extreme left. If it’s not to the left then your headphones are backwards. Now listen to Karen’s voice, it should be defined, she should sound just to the right and a little below the ears, it should be separate from the electric piano, there should be a space that you can hear between Karen and the electric piano. See the diagram below.

 

Now disconnect USB Disruptor, start by unplugging the computer side first. Connect your USB cable direct now, skipping USB Disruptor, and repeat the test.

What you hear is the noise, and it fills the quiet spaces with noise. The space between the singer and electric piano is basically gone. The diagram below is descriptive of our A/B testing experience.

Thank you, I'm going to add this back to the site. Looks like people would have found this helpful, as I originally thought. Sometimes it's best to go with your first instinct, I think I remember reading that's been studied.

[robpriore]

"The supply has .1% line regulation. That is supposed to be really good. Those specs and others are posted on the site. I pay a very high price for them and they told me it was very good. So if they are lying then I would like to know. I don't know what your qualifications are to make broad claims that the specs are not impressive, which specs are you referencing?"

 

I'm starting to regret my apology from yesterday. Anyway, looking at the above statement, how on earth can your keep talking? Its supposed to be good? They told me? If they are lying I would like to know? You're supposed to be a manufacturer. You need to know these things beyond question. Walmart's standards are higher than yours.

 

 

You missed the sarcasm, and I was asking the person to be more specific, they said the power supply specs were not at all impressive, or something like that. So I wanted to know why the experts I've contracted to build my supplies apparently know little about power supplies. I said I wanted the QUIETEST and that is what they built, at least to my ears.

[Tintinabulum]

This is tiresome, any opportunity to respond to any comment with a view to producing more "propaganda". It takes up a good percentage of "what's new" except it isn't, just more advertising. USB improver-it's been the subject of discussion and new products for years. I'd ask what's new but I'd be falling into the trap of bringing more guess what- advertising- so don't bother please, all rhetorical!

[CR250]

You missed the sarcasm, and I was asking the person to be more specific, they said the power supply specs were not at all impressive, or something like that. So I wanted to know why the experts I've contracted to build my supplies apparently know little about power supplies. I said I wanted the QUIETEST and that is what they built, at least to my ears.

 

You're lying.

 

"I've tested several types - with my ears - and I like the USB Disruptor supply the best, and it's also the most expensive one out there! It has important circuitry, it's been QA tested and has a QA certificate on the device itself, as well as being ROHS compliant, so no lead or other harmful substances. These are not cheapo supplies."

 

Statements like that here, and on other sites, clearly implies that you buy off the shelf power supplies. Very good ones (according to you), but off the shelf nonetheless. Now you're telling us that your power supplies are designed to your specs? BS. Do you have any idea what's involved in designing a piece of electronics, and then having it built in China and shipped to your factory (2nd bedroom)? Given the size of your operation and the amount your product sells for, its impossible. I can back this up with specific examples of what's required, but I don't have to. Sometimes, all you need to do is look for the simple things. If you were contracting a company to make custom power supplies, they would be branded with your company name on them. No one in their right mind would go through all that trouble, and not put their name on their products.

 

Also, the diagram from your website that several people have referenced in their recent posts, is BS as well. It leads you to believe that the examples in the pictures are of speakers in a room, and not headphones. The minute someone above mentioned speaker/room interaction as an explanation, on go the headphones. More importantly, though, are the numbers listed. If you haven't measured the time delay, how can you list specific examples of it in the picture?

[kilroy]

deleted duplicate

[tranz]

That would not be the case because the speakers stay in the same position in your home, you just switch the USB Disruptor in and out of the signal and you can hear the changes.

 

Did you make sure your ears were in the exact same place (X,Y,Z) after the switch?

 

That is far more likely to be the cause of the perceived delta.

[sandyk]

Especially without providing a shred of supporting evidence to your claims. So if you want to lay out for all of us these other products please do so, but also note they will cannibalize your business too. So go ahead, share with us these DIY and overwhelmingly available solutions.

 

 

This a later version of a DIY solution that I posted some time ago. It also uses a modified version of a low noise (around 4uV) shunt regulator designed by John Linsley Hood.

The shields are disconnected between IN and OUT sockets to remove a potential earth loop problem, as in many devices including USB memory, the shield and 0 volt (earth wires) are connected internally. However, it would be quite easy to provide a switch to switch this option in or out.

It is also used in conjunction with a USB lead which has the red +5V wire disconnected in the PC end USB -A plug.

Note also this thread from 2012 which was a combined exercise between members of C.A. and Rock Grotto forums.

The reduction of low level wideband noise results in the exact improvements that you have described.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/continuing-pursuit-power-supply-improvements-and-improved-digital-analogue-converter-performance-14165/

 

I have also attached a much earlier posted example of research in this area between several members of various forums.

[CR250]

That thing's a work of art compared to the USB Disruptor.

[tranz]

Just going off topic a little bit. I am surprised by your findings. Ifi claims that their wall plug is excellent and has a very low noise.

 

Yup, and for a cheap, easy to package and ship switcher it probably is, in comparison. On the DC side only mind you. It still will never be as clean as even the cheapest LPSUs. That is why claims mean shite without measurements.

 

Hence my challenge to the self-proclaimed 'inventor' to show us a scope picture, under load, of his 'expensive' cheap wallwart, clearly showing ripple values.

 

If, as I read recently, he had them built per his spec, than what is that spec?

 

That 'cleaner' 5V is the only thing he is selling. No ground filtering, no data re-clocking (but an extra set of connectors in the data path!) And as we have read from other engineers here, the quality of the 5V is the least of your USB worries.

 

And is that ripple any better than what is coming from the computer? Again, show us a scope picture to compare.

[jabbr]

So 4uV / 5V = 0.00008 % regulation , suggesting that 0.1 % is as I said, not impressive.

[sandyk]

So 4uV / 5V = 0.00008 % regulation , suggesting that 0.1 % is as I said, not impressive.

 

I said 4uV noise ,not regulation, which was with the original published design, whereas the modified version also uses a low ESR capacitor of the same value in parallel , which wasn't available back then. The modified version will have a wider effective bandwidth than the original 300kHz due to this. The modified version is also around 1 Farad simulated capacitance compared with .5 Farad for the original published design.

I am however unable to measure noise levels that low for confirmation, due to lack of suitable test equipment.

[jabbr]

I said 4uV noise ,not regulation, which was with the original published design, whereas the modified version also uses a low ESR capacitor of the same value in parallel , which wasn't available back then. The modified version will have a wider effective bandwidth than the original 300kHz due to this. The modified version is also around 1 Farad simulated capacitance compared with .5 Farad for the original published design.

I am however unable to measure noise levels that low for confirmation, due to lack of suitable test equipment.

 

You did, and they are different and this article explains why: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt504/slyt504.pdf . There is hardly a need for a 5V USB supply to have a high degree regulation in the sense that a slight variation from 5V is not a concern as long as within spec. I'm assuming that what we want is both strong ripple rejection (the PSRR I've mentioned above) as well as low noise, so to be more precise you might also give us the PSRR of your supply. There are of course many other factors which are important for power supplies.

[Jud]

I have access to a top engineer who loves audio, I will ask him to test it using whatever protocol you suggest. I will then reply back here with his comments, for full transparency.

 

Jud, if you had the unit would you be able to run the test you suggested? Or other tests?

 

robpriore, in Real Life^TM my job and home life keep me very busy. I also do not have access to the type of equipment you refer to on your website ($6000 Agilent 'scope), nor to "a top engineer who loves audio" who I can ask to run tests. Since you do, I would think it would not be terribly difficult to have this top engineer run the impulse test I referred to, a very common sort of test in audio, and then as you promised "reply back here with [the test results and] his comments, for full transparency."

 

Certainly if we are talking about uniformly repeatable timing changes between channels on the order of milliseconds I would think this would be very obvious, considering the numerous impulse test results at SRC Comparisons are shown to tenths of a millisecond.

[4est]

A tool is only as competent at the hands that use it.

robpriore, in Real Life^TM my job and home life keep me very busy. I also do not have access to the type of equipment you refer to on your website ($6000 Agilent 'scope), nor to "a top engineer who loves audio" who I can ask to run tests. Since you do, I would think it would not be terribly difficult to have this top engineer run the impulse test I referred to, a very common sort of test in audio, and then as you promised "reply back here with [the test results and] his comments, for full transparency."

 

Certainly if we are talking about uniformly repeatable timing changes between channels on the order of milliseconds I would think this would be very obvious, considering the numerous impulse test results at SRC Comparisons are shown to tenths of a millisecond.

[robpriore]

I created the same kind of solution as AQVOX but in my own fashion.

 

Previously I had a full size HTPC, used the internal "dirty" 12V to clean it up by a LM317 voltage regulator set at 5V.

The small PCB is a standard Velleman kit.

Having the 5V out to a socket installed in a PCI bracket.

Made a cable spiltter with USB signal and Power on different leads.

 

It looks like this:

 

 

 

I also believe it is beneficial to cut the power already at the source side of the cable and not at the receiving end as AQVOX does.

Even if the power is not used a noisy power being present at the power conductors in the USB cable still can disturb the USB signal.

Due to capicitance in the cable there will be leakage currents due to the HF noise which will cause some radiaton.

So I prefer to have a clean power running parallel the signal leads in the USB cable :-)

 

Pretty cool!

[Jamesroy]

So is there a difference between a USB Disrupter and REGEN?

[devs]

Deleted

[robpriore]

So is there a difference between a USB Disrupter and REGEN?

 

Facts only:

 

Thank you for the question. USB Disruptor cuts the computer 5 volt power from the computer. It does not introduce additional circuits for the data signal to pass through prior to the DAC, like the Regen. The approach is minimalist, which reflects my own personal philosophy of HiFi.

 

To me, less is often more.

 

The cost of my product is also considerably less than Regen.

 

My customers with Regen's report improvements while using the devices together.