sandyk Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Facts only: Thank you for the question. USB Disruptor cuts the computer 5 volt power from the computer. It does not introduce additional circuits for the data signal to pass through prior to the DAC, like the Regen. The approach is minimalist, which reflects my own personal philosophy of HiFi. To me, less is often more. The cost of my product is also considerably less than Regen. My customers with Regen's report improvements while using the devices together. It does nothing new. Most members have other ways of achieving these results more economically. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
jabbr Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 And how is that done? If you'd like to try a little DIY project, you can modify a USB cable to allow a split power plug. If the plugged in power supply is floating it won't cause ground loops. An Anker battery or similar us a cheap way to accomplish that. Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
Jamesroy Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 If you'd like to try a little DIY project, you can modify a USB cable to allow a split power plug. If the plugged in power supply is floating it won't cause ground loops. An Anker battery or similar us a cheap way to accomplish that. Your over my head with that. Thanks Link to comment
bogi Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I am using this +5V power supply: STONTRONICS - S2226ST - Linear Power Supply, Fixed, 5 V, 1 A | CPC UK Together with this USB cable adapter câble adaptateur usb-b pour alimentation externe usb-a you have complete AQVOX type of solution. The only thing you need to do is to substitute the connector of the STONTRONICS power supply cable with USB A female connector. As data USB cable I am using Supra Cables USB 2.0 USB Kabel A - B / Länge 0,7m i7 11850H + RTX A2000 Win11 HQPlayer ► Topping HS02 ► 2x iFi iSilencer ► SMSL D300 ► DIY headamp DHA1 ► HiFiMan HE-500 Link to comment
Jamesroy Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I am using this +5V power supply: STONTRONICS - S2226ST - Linear Power Supply, Fixed, 5 V, 1 A | CPC UKTogether with this USB cable adapter câble adaptateur usb-b pour alimentation externe usb-a you have complete AQVOX type of solution. The only thing you need to do is to substitute the connector of the STONTRONICS power supply cable with USB A female connector. As data USB cable I am using Supra Cables USB 2.0 USB Kabel A - B / Länge 0,7m At the risk of sounding totally helpless, what will this do for my sound and the Supra USB is pretty expensive. So no soldering involved? Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 At the risk of sounding totally helpless, what will this do for my sound and the Supra USB is pretty expensive. So no soldering involved? Quite a few members are able to use this inexpensive gadget with good results. https://www.sbooster.com/sbooster-tweaks/sbooster-vbus-isolator You would first need to try isolating the +5V in the USB socket with a small piece of insulation to see if it will work for you, as some DACs need to see a "handshake". How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Jamesroy Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Quite a few members are able to use this inexpensive gadget with good results.https://www.sbooster.com/sbooster-tweaks/sbooster-vbus-isolator You would first need to try isolating the +5V in the USB socket with a small piece of insulation to see if it will work for you, as some DACs need to see a "handshake". "isolating the +5V in the USB socket with a small piece of insulation" this is beyond my skills. Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 "isolating the +5V in the USB socket with a small piece of insulation" this is beyond my skills. I don't need to do this because I modify the plug itself, but numerous members have tried , and still use the insulation method.Perhaps one of these members can reply and give you a quick run down on how easy it is to do ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
audio.bill Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Check out this thread for a simple method of blocking the 5V power from your USB cable, if your DAC can function without it. Link to comment
Jamesroy Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 How do I know if my wifi NANO DAC can function by"blocking the 5V power from your USB cable"? Link to comment
jhwalker Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 How do I know if my wifi NANO DAC can function by"blocking the 5V power from your USB cable"? It cannot - it is powered solely by that 5V coming down the USB cable. Only DACs that run on AC (I.e., wall) power potentially can benefit from this tweak. John Walker - IT Executive Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system Link to comment
Jamesroy Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 It cannot - it is powered solely by that 5V coming down the USB cable. Only DACs that run on AC (I.e., wall) power potentially can benefit from this tweak. OK agreed but my REGEN does have a power supply how about that? Link to comment
jhwalker Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 OK agreed but my REGEN does have a power supply how about that? That would work PS - I just tried it myself with my LH Labs 2G USB cable, which does the same thing by splitting data and power into two cables. I disconnected the power cable completely, plugged only the data side of the cable into the Regen and the Regen into the Nano. Works just great. John Walker - IT Executive Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system Link to comment
Jamesroy Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 That would work PS - I just tried it myself with my LH Labs 2G USB cable, which does the same thing by splitting data and power into two cables. I disconnected the power cable completely, plugged only the data side of the cable into the Regen and the Regen into the Nano. Works just great. But was the SQ an improvement and if I disconnect the power from REGEN do I still need to do the tape thing to the USB that connects the REGEN to the ifi NANO? Link to comment
jhwalker Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 But was the SQ an improvement and if I disconnect the power from REGEN do I still need to do the tape thing to the USB that connects the REGEN to the ifi NANO? "SQ" is in the "eye" of the beholder - you can try the experiment yourself to see if you like it or not. WRT power - the Regen supposedly ignores incoming 5V power; i.e., it inserts the needed 5V using its own power supply. So (theoretically) tape on the power pin "should" have no effect whatsoever; however, some are saying just having the power running alongside the cable *even if it's discarded at the other end* somewhat degrades the final output. Personally, my aural memory is not good enough to hear the difference between the two - that is, by the time I get everything swapped out, I can't remember exactly what the earlier sample sounded like. IOW, the difference is (to me) so subtle I can't reliably tell the difference Certainly not so dramatic as, say, using different speakers / headphones (which I *can* hear, quite reliably LOL). John Walker - IT Executive Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system Link to comment
bogi Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 At the risk of sounding totally helpless, what will this do for my sound and the Supra USB is pretty expensive. So no soldering involved? Soldering is involved only to substitute the power connector of the Stontronics power supply in order you can connect it to the USB cable adapter. Take the Supra USB cable only as an example. You can buy cheaper but good USB Cable for example from Belkin Gold Series, or you can buy a $500 cable ... it is on you. You need USB cable always - with and without the discussed solution - so I don't count it to the price of solution. My suggestion is to solder an USB cable adapter yourself or to buy something like I proposed - it is inexpensive. It will allow you to experiment with more power supplies and to understand the sonic difference. For me the proposed solution brings more resolution, clearer background, feeling of more dynamics. The amount of change is important for me, but ... it is always very individual what we hear and how we evaluate sonic difference. For me this type of solution is part of many small SW settings and HW choices, which affect sound. RCA cables, mains power filter, settings of XMOS USB driver, HQPlayer filter settings, volume adjustment HQPlayer / DAC / preamp ... they are some examples. Experiment and evaluate what you hear, what has sense for you and what hasn't. i7 11850H + RTX A2000 Win11 HQPlayer ► Topping HS02 ► 2x iFi iSilencer ► SMSL D300 ► DIY headamp DHA1 ► HiFiMan HE-500 Link to comment
jabbr Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 OK agreed but my REGEN does have a power supply how about that? If you have a regen there is no need at all to consider this -- the regen doesn't use the USB input power, rather uses its own power supply, rendering this redundant. Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 If you have a regen there is no need at all to consider this -- the regen doesn't use the USB input power, rather uses its own power supply, rendering this redundant. Some members have reported that although the Regen doesn't use the incoming noisy +5V from the PC, that it still couples rubbish into the D+ and D- data lines, as evidenced by the improvement when it is disconnected at the PC end of the USB cable. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
jabbr Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Some members have reported that although the Regen doesn't use the incoming noisy +5V from the PC, that it still couples rubbish into the D+ and D- data lines, as evidenced by the improvement when it is disconnected at the PC end of the USB cable. Are you saying that is why the little plug helps? Fair enough. I'm saying that there is no need to replace the 5v into the regen ala the 'disruptor'... a configuration that John Swenson has strongly recommended against BTW ... are you saying otherwise? Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Are you saying that is why the little plug helps? Fair enough. I'm saying that there is no need to replace the 5v into the regen ala the 'disruptor'... a configuration that John Swenson has strongly recommended against BTW ... are you saying otherwise? I am saying that if the USB device (DAC or Storage) doesn't need to see the "handshake" via the USB port to operate, then you are better off not sending the noisy SMPS +5V to the input of the Regen. Even when using a front USB port there is some SQ degradation due to this coupling between +5V and D+ and D- in the cable between the Motherboard and the front USB port, even when the USB-A plug at the PC end has the red +5V wire disconnected in it. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
tranz Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 [emoji651]️ And in that case don't forget to block the ground pin as well. And do not waste money on a voltage cleaner. Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 [emoji651]️ And in that case don't forget to block the ground pin as well. And do not waste money on a voltage cleaner. Many devices will NOT work without a Ground pin , or at least a shield connections that is connected to the USB device's 0 volts (earth) internally. This includes USB memory sticks where the shield connection is normally internally connected to the 0 volts (earth) lead. Relying on the shield instead of the 0 volts line results in some SQ degradation normally as it is not a "clean earth." Yes, you are correct about a voltage cleaner/external PSU not being required ahead of the Uptone USB Regen. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
jabbr Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Yes power supply/ground noise can "leak" through the D+/- lines which is why merely replacing the power supply provides limited benefit and approaches like the Regen are used (both replaces the power and cleans the D+/-). There are other approaches such as isolating, resupply and reclocking *after* the USB to I2S conversion (eg see the DIYAudio @iancanada chain) Room treatments for headphone users Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
robpriore Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Yes power supply/ground noise can "leak" through the D+/- lines which is why merely replacing the power supply provides limited benefit and approaches like the Regen are used (both replaces the power and cleans the D+/-). There are other approaches such as isolating, resupply and reclocking *after* the USB to I2S conversion (eg see the DIYAudio @iancanada chain) Room treatments for headphone users I love your Buckaroo Banzai pic! I thought I recognized that. Big Boo TAY! Have you considered that if you kill the power connection from the source, it means the power never leaves the chip itself, so maybe it can't leak into the data lines in the first place. Just wondering if you considered that possibility, because you say to everyone that "replacing the power supply provides limited benefit" but that is not the experience I have had personally, nor my many clients. Link to comment
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