USB Disruptor

[robpriore]

Guess I'm late to this party, so forgive my asking a silly question.

In looking at the photo of this product, I see an SMPS with a cable with USB B female and male plugs and they lift the pin-1 VBUS pin and inject their own power from the SMPS. How is this new? Both other companies and DIYers have been doing this for a LONG time. The site says "patent pending," but I am left scratching my head about that. Am I missing something?

Thanks,

--Alex C.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23234[/ATTACH]

 

Thank you for providing your identity. The Uptone Audio Regen is a venerable product. Many of my customers report improvements to your product with the addition of a USB Disruptor.

 

You do however assert that the USB Disruptor has been done before, nothing new, etc. I beg to differ. And the fact that you may be attacking me a bit, perhaps a veiled attack, maybe suggesting this is not a special product or can't do anything special because it's been done so many times before, etc., is less of an educated opinion but more of a reaction to being threatened by a competitive product.

 

I'm not the only one that will interpret your comments as being driven by fear or worry about competition. Why would you comment about the patent status? Are you a patent expert? Do you know anything about the product besides what you see? Never judge a book by its cover.

 

I think you are in fact missing something, and I think you should be happy with your success and leave other designers alone. Especially without providing a shred of supporting evidence to your claims. So if you want to lay out for all of us these other products please do so, but also note they will cannibalize your business too. So go ahead, share with us these DIY and overwhelmingly available solutions.

 

Perhaps this was your intention the whole time, bait me into asking you for the list. Good, go ahead and provide the list of all the great USB power solutions that exist. I want to see each one that looks and performs just like my patent pending product. And then when you enlighten me to the folly of this exploit then perhaps I will pull the plug because what's the point in building another wheel, right?

 

I mean, if all you have is the AQVOX product and some weird Doukmall thingie from China then you are way off base and totally out of line.

 

You've sullied yourself a bit with your comments. I will use it in marketing too.

[Solstice380]

I'm not the only one that will interpret your comments as being driven by fear or worry about competition. Why would you comment about the patent status?

 

Ummmmm, you just might be the only one so I wouldn't speak so quickly.

 

The concept of the product shows an apparent lack of understanding of the real issues that are being measured and addressed in the computer audio environment. Maybe your device is some magic power supply that puts out awesomely clean 5V (do you have access to Unobtanium?), but no technical information has been provided. Otherwise I see 2 issues; 1 - SMPS power supplies are known not only to be bad for SQ in the C.A. environment but they also put crap back onto the AC supply, and 2- many venerable companies offer split cables, measurable clean 5V USB supplies, etc. iFi, AQVox, YFS, and the list goes on.

 

So.... ho hum.

[devs]

Lots of noise on this forum about a simple cable/connector construction that disconnects the 5V from the source and injects it's own. Sorry, but indeed it's done many times before in many different incarnations, the basic idea is anything but new.

 

Here's a simple cheap adapter with which you can use your own clean non SMPS PSU.

 

However I think many of us are already past this station and are applying USB regenerating devices which themselves may soon be replaced by full galvanic isolation devices like the Intona.

 

[robpriore]

Lots of noise on this forum about a simple cable/connector construction that disconnects the 5V from the source and injects it's own. Sorry, but indeed it's done many times before in many different incarnations, the basic idea is anything but new.

 

Here's a simple cheap adapter with which you can use your own clean non SMPS PSU.

 

However I think many of us are already past this station and are applying USB regenerating devices which themselves may soon be replaced by full galvanic isolation devices like the Intona.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23236[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23237[/ATTACH]

 

Can you post where this is for sale?

[robpriore]

Ummmmm, you just might be the only one so I wouldn't speak so quickly.

 

The concept of the product shows an apparent lack of understanding of the real issues that are being measured and addressed in the computer audio environment. Maybe your device is some magic power supply that puts out awesomely clean 5V (do you have access to Unobtanium?), but no technical information has been provided. Otherwise I see 2 issues; 1 - SMPS power supplies are known not only to be bad for SQ in the C.A. environment but they also put crap back onto the AC supply, and 2- many venerable companies offer split cables, measurable clean 5V USB supplies, etc. iFi, AQVox, YFS, and the list goes on.

 

So.... ho hum.

 

You already have an Uptone Regen, as you report in your post, so you're addressing many dimensions of the problem. USB Disruptor solves it in a more fundamental way. Plenty of technical information is provided on the website.

[devs]

Can you post where this is for sale?

 

There's multiple versions, I've seen them here: power supply accessories - Audiophonics but they may just import it from somewhere in China like many of the other items for sale on that site.

[robpriore]

There's multiple versions, I've seen them here: power supply accessories - Audiophonics but they may just import it from somewhere in China like many of the other items for sale on that site.

 

I've seen those connectors for sale, they are mass produced and poorly shielded, partially due to the proximity of the contacts. I don't use that approach.

[master]

My what a hugely entertaining thread, and it only gets better!

 

Carry on folks, Rob isn't going to get it, or maybe he gets it, but still insists on being the pushy salesman.

 

I get it though, Rob isn't going to give any answers or even make an attempt to answer a direct question, much less provide proof of anything.

 

So that only leaves us with 2 choices, Rob gets banned and the selling stops, or we have an entertaining time of it while it lasts.

[robpriore]

My what a hugely entertaining thread, and it only gets better!

 

Carry on folks, Rob isn't going to get it, or maybe he gets it, but still insists on being the pushy salesman.

 

I get it though, Rob isn't going to give any answers or even make an attempt to answer a direct question, much less provide proof of anything.

 

So that only leaves us with 2 choices, Rob gets banned and the selling stops, or we have an entertaining time of it while it lasts.

 

I'm glad this is entertaining for you. Hiding in anonymity makes it easier to bully others, that's been proven. The proof is on the website, if you accept it for what it is, great, if not, believe what you want.

 

I don't follow what you mean about being a pushy salesman. If what you mean is my response to bullying and other attacks from competitors then what's the point of a forum. A forum is a place to share ideas, and discourse.

 

You're branding me a pushy salesman, which is pretty akin to a liar, so you're kind of calling me a liar I think. Is that right, is that what you mean by being a pushy salesman?

 

Or is my defense of your comments what you consider to be pushy salesmanship?

 

If I get banned from a public forum for defending myself from attacks from anonymous bullies then good, I don't want to be a part of it.

[Jud]

I've read the information on the web site. I would like to see any measurements, 'scope traces, etc., you might have showing the time domain changes you refer to.

[jabbr]

Hi Elsdude. A much better engineer than me wrote this:

 

Yes, but there again, if you do something like play a file of a frequency sweep, from a computer thru a USB cable to a DAC and measure the analog output of the DAC, both the $5 USB cable and the $5000 USB cable will appear to be perfect.

There is always a group of people that believe if it can't be measured, it does not exist. I'm quite sure I have never been in that camp.

Robert Harley's latest edition of The Complete Guide to High End Audio is a very good read. Robert specifically talks about how we are not able to measure as well as we can hear. One big problem is test tones are static and music is dynamic. The biggest domain that typical test equipment leaves out is the time domain.

 

 

You agree with his statement?

 

Let's cut the nonsense.

 

Firstly, the price looks reasonable, but the approach has been done before e.g. Aqvox etc. and there are technical issues with the approach particularly ground loops.

 

Secondly, if I were to replace the USB power, I'd either take the approach of replacing it at the USB output card level, or during a regen (to avoid the ground line issue).

 

Thirdly, above said, if I were going to use your approach of a split cable, I would replace with a much better 5v supply, not wall wart, or do you have some new technology. Specs of supply regulation are not impressive AT ALL. I'd use a battery (cheap) or LPS, or ala iPower etc.

 

Fourth, the relationship between power issues in USB and your phase issues is at best tenuous.

[robpriore]

Let's cut the nonsense.

 

Firstly, the price looks reasonable, but the approach has been done before e.g. Aqvox etc. and there are technical issues with the approach particularly ground loops.

 

Secondly, if I were to replace the USB power, I'd either take the approach of replacing it at the USB output card level, or during a regen (to avoid the ground line issue).

 

Thirdly, above said, if I were going to use your approach of a split cable, I would replace with a much better 5v supply, not wall wart, or do you have some new technology. Specs of supply regulation are not impressive AT ALL. I'd use a battery (cheap) or LPS, or ala iPower etc.

 

Fourth, the relationship between power issues in USB and your phase issues is at best tenuous.

 

The supply has .1% line regulation. That is supposed to be really good. Those specs and others are posted on the site. I pay a very high price for them and they told me it was very good. So if they are lying then I would like to know. I don't know what your qualifications are to make broad claims that the specs are not impressive, which specs are you referencing?

 

And the fourth item is important because the observations support the theory. But letting your ears decide is ultimately the ONLY judge of the merits.

[robpriore]

I've read the information on the web site. I would like to see any measurements, 'scope traces, etc., you might have showing the time domain changes you refer to.

 

How would you propose to test that? I mean aside from the empirical testing we've already done, which is standing in the same position and actually hearing the instruments change spatially. That test is repeatable, you can try it yourself.

 

I have access to a top engineer who loves audio, I will ask him to test it using whatever protocol you suggest. I will then reply back here with his comments, for full transparency.

[Jud]

How would you propose to test that? I mean aside from the empirical testing we've already done, which is standing in the same position and actually hearing the instruments change spatially. That test is repeatable, you can try it yourself.

 

I have access to a top engineer who loves audio, I will ask him to test it using whatever protocol you suggest. I will then reply back here with his comments, for full transparency.

 

There is an illustration on your site showing timing differences in the signal resulting in location differences for the listener. So comparison of left vs. right channel output times with and without the Disruptor should be sufficient to show that.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Rob - I've already spelled out to you what is appropriate with respect to manufacturers posting here at CA. Unfortunately you've elected to ignore the rules. This has two consequences.

 

1. You lose credibility with the CA Community.

2. You'll receive no more warnings. Continue this pattern and you'll be banned from CA. If you want to play by the rules, you can talk all you'd like in a sponsored forum of your own.

[robpriore]

There is an illustration on your site showing timing differences in the signal resulting in location differences for the listener. So comparison of left vs. right channel output times with and without the Disruptor should be sufficient to show that.

 

Right, the illustrations are based on theory. Testing output times would be great, what testing protocol do you suggest, what has worked for you? Its not as simple as simply running tones and looking at the scope results.

[CR250]

"The supply has .1% line regulation. That is supposed to be really good. Those specs and others are posted on the site. I pay a very high price for them and they told me it was very good. So if they are lying then I would like to know. I don't know what your qualifications are to make broad claims that the specs are not impressive, which specs are you referencing?"

 

I'm starting to regret my apology from yesterday. Anyway, looking at the above statement, how on earth can your keep talking? Its supposed to be good? They told me? If they are lying I would like to know? You're supposed to be a manufacturer. You need to know these things beyond question. Walmart's standards are higher than yours.

[Jud]

Right, the illustrations are based on theory. Testing output times would be great, what testing protocol do you suggest, what has worked for you? Its not as simple as simply running tones and looking at the scope results.

 

Why is it not as simple as running the impulse test shown for many tens of filters at http://src.infinitewave.ca on both channels of a system with and without the Disruptor, and comparing the two channels for timing differences in both cases?

[robpriore]

okay Chris, it feels like these guys are taking shots at me and im just trying to keep the record straight. I was to understand that I could post replies to direct questions. Is that okay?

 

I dont want to be banned, but what about blatant and false assertions? How do I protect the truth?

 

Other manufacturers must face this guantlet, what do you tell them?

 

Anyway, I'm sorry for not paying closer attention and will do so from now on.

 

Kind regards,

 

Rob

[firedog]

Rob-

 

I'm think I'm probably wasting my time writing this, but you need to try to look at what you are posting more objectively. Much of it is not simple "answers to questions" - it it sales talk for your product. All talk about how great your product is and how great it sounds and how wonderful it is, how unique it is as a solution, and comparing it to other solutions - is sales pitch talk.

 

If you answer questions without sales pitching your product you will be fine. Based on what you've written so far - you don't seem to know the difference.

 

If someone writes something factually incorrect about your product - correct them with facts - not with an argument for your product. Your opinions and point of view aren't facts. Can you understand the difference?

 

BTW, having people stand in a position and hear "the instruments change spatially" is an empirical experience, but not an empirical test that is repeatable. It's a subjective experience of the listener which can't be reproduced and tested objectively by others. That's why Jud and others are asking you for some kind of data driven testing/measurements that indicate your product does what you say it does.

[jabbr]

The supply has .1% line regulation. That is supposed to be really good. Those specs and others are posted on the site.

 

What does that mean to you "really good"? Do you mean PSRR 60dB? Do you consider that "really good"? Do you mean 10mV? Is that "really good"?

 

I am trying to figure out if you really believe 0.1% is "really good", or do you have any idea of what you are saying? Please explain yourself, preferably using math.

 

I pay a very high price for them and they told me it was very good. So if they are lying then I would like to know. I don't know what your qualifications are to make broad claims that the specs are not impressive, which specs are you referencing?

 

My "qualifications" are not important and I certainly won't argue by authority here. Suffice to say that I have the ability to evaluate technology specifications.

 

Your way of deciding that your supplies which you buy from someone else are "really good" because you "pay a high price for them and they told me it was very good" is frankly laughable.

 

Maybe read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply_rejection_ratio and then go ask someone how to interpret that regarding your own device, and then come back and answer. No one is forcing you to post before doing your own research.

[tranz]

I don't sell these things, am not an electrical engineer, not an 'inventor' (lol), but even I managed to put a scope on a few power supplies to check their noise level. As an example, IFI's plug was too noisy for me, and will be beat by any cheap bench lpsu. That was the DC side. AC noise is horrendous for any wallwart incl the IFI.

[Adyc]

I don't sell these things, am not an electrical engineer, not an 'inventor' (lol), but even I managed to put a scope on a few power supplies to check their noise level. As an example, IFI's plug was too noisy for me, and will be beat by any cheap bench lpsu. That was the DC side. AC noise is horrendous for any wallwart incl the IFI.

 

Just going off topic a little bit. I am surprised by your findings. Ifi claims that their wall plug is excellent and has a very low noise.

[Jud]

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[One and a half]

Just going off topic a little bit. I am surprised by your findings. Ifi claims that their wall plug is excellent and has a very low noise.

 

With any power supply, if measures are taken on its own everything is rosy. Once a load is connected then even the quietest supply can emit the worst rubbish (trash).