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USB Disruptor


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And exactly what kind of music has faster slew rates on the USB cable vs music with slower slew rates on the USB cable?

 

Actually, he has a possible point. In a USB powered DAC, the 5V is used to run the analogue output stages as well as the digital circuitry. But there's nothing about linear versus SMPS that makes one supply have a superior response to changes in load current over the other, assuming competent design in both cases.

"People hear what they see." - Doris Day

The forum would be a much better place if everyone were less convinced of how right they were.

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Actually, he has a possible point. In a USB powered DAC, the 5V is used to run the analogue output stages as well as the digital circuitry. But there's nothing about linear versus SMPS that makes one supply have a superior response to changes in load current over the other, assuming competent design in both cases.

 

Okay, wasn't thinking of USB powered DACs. Mainly because USB powered DACs would in my opinion likely be improved more by spending money on a better DAC than spending on USB tweaks.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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This argument won't sell well with many audiophiles. "Linear" supplies are generally perceived as being preferable to SMPS supplies due to their lower noise and more stable output.

 

Oh I agree. In many applications linear is great. In this application the bulkier linear setup didn't lend a easily apparent advantage, at least to my ears.

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@Liam:

 

I was not aware that AQVOX changed their plug in the menatime for "source side" connection with type A connector.

 

On the previous page post #43 there is still the type B connector for the receiving end of the cable which I was referring to.

 

The USB B connector is still used. They only added the A-type as an extra option for products like the Hiface.

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"What kind of comments do you mean? Don't mistake confidence with arrogance. I know what I know from experience. You can't discount what I hear. And being an audiophile you should know that not everything necessarily does what you think. Sometimes the sound changes without a good reason. Even humidity makes a difference."

 

Here's some advice you gave to someone looking for a good sounding inexpensive Dac.

 

"Bottom line, they make a difference so you should spend at least $150 on a power cord, maybe $200 on the DAC, and with that you might have a really great sounding setup, sounding as good as other DACs at many times the price. I'm serious, the sound you'll get at 16/44 for you paying $350, maybe $400 with the Toslink cable and a Sabre or Wolfson DAC, I would bet might equal or even best a $1200 DAC out of the box.

 

-Spend 150$ power cord to go on a $200 dac and you'll get better sound than a dac that costs many times the price. I guess any dac and any power cord will do.

 

 

Make similar power cord upgrades and add a USB Disruptor to the $1200 DAC, serve it 96/24 music, and it would would really take an expert listener to tell the difference between that setup and really any other DAC, at any price. And at that point, the testing isn't exactly objective. In the Digital game implementation is HUGE! Get it wrong and your expensive gear doesn't perform its best.

 

-Now we take the $1200 dac (Any dac will do, just as long as it costs $1200), plug a USB Disruptor into it, and it will sound just as good as anything at any cost. Sounds reasonable.

 

Get it right though and you get sound as good as anything at any price. You can always spend more on bigger amps and speakers but that's just going to be louder. Things can sound pretty darn awesome at 75 decibels. Orchestral crescendo's measure about 90 decibels. Sustained listening at 95 decibels causes irreversible hearing damage, just as an FYI. Live rock music 120 decibels. You can get these levels from most 50 watt per channel amplifiers with two to three driver speakers."

 

-Better amps and speakers will only get you more volume? I wish you would have told us that before I upgraded my system. I could have sworn that my new speakers sound different than my old ones.

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First post here, I stumbled across this thread when I was looking into the USB Disruptor. I would like to pose a question to anyone here willing to share any ideas or experience using a self powered USB hub as an alternative to powering a DAC that requires it's 5 volts via usb port. This question for Rob, do I understand it correctly when you say that your USB Disruptor provides a constant power to the DAC then stays out of the signal path's way so to speak? Right now I am using a Music Streamer 2 and have found that it requires me to keep the power adaptor plugged in while in use for optimum performance of both the computer and the DAC. Any thoughts?

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They may look similar but they are different on the inside. There are many levels of quality to power supplies, some are very inexpensive, and others like USB Disruptor are very expensive. It's two ends of a spectrum.

 

These devices all look similar, the housings are generic but the ratings are all different, also voltage outputs vary, as well as overall parts quality. You'll note some have ferrites while others do not. I've seen some of these for less than $1.

 

I've tested several types - with my ears - and I like the USB Disruptor supply the best, and it's also the most expensive one out there! It has important circuitry, it's been QA tested and has a QA certificate on the device itself, as well as being ROHS compliant, so no lead or other harmful substances. These are not cheapo supplies.

 

I don't understand why you do not provide some data regarding the effective filtering and protection of your power supply.

From what I can see, this is where most the cost of your USB Disruptor would be. Since the supply voltage is sourced from say 120 VAC and then converted to 5 VDC, it would be of some comfort to know that there is reliable circuit protection in place. How is the primary wall voltage isolated from the secondary supply voltage to the DAC and how well does it filter say ripple current? I think explaining how this is achieved may go a long way to ensuring some credibility of your product... At least that is my 2 cents

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I wonder how the USB Disruptor compares to Schiit Audio's Wyrd, also known as the Decrapifier.

 

The Disruptor disrupts the flow of noisy 5v to your DAC. The Decrapifier allows the flow, but decraps it before letting the 5v thru.

 

Of course the analog output improvement of these type devices seems hard to get any data on other than I saw, I spent, I heard, and it was better.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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"What kind of comments do you mean? Don't mistake confidence with arrogance. I know what I know from experience. You can't discount what I hear. And being an audiophile you should know that not everything necessarily does what you think. Sometimes the sound changes without a good reason. Even humidity makes a difference."

 

Here's some advice you gave to someone looking for a good sounding inexpensive Dac.

 

"Bottom line, they make a difference so you should spend at least $150 on a power cord, maybe $200 on the DAC, and with that you might have a really great sounding setup, sounding as good as other DACs at many times the price. I'm serious, the sound you'll get at 16/44 for you paying $350, maybe $400 with the Toslink cable and a Sabre or Wolfson DAC, I would bet might equal or even best a $1200 DAC out of the box.

 

-Spend 150$ power cord to go on a $200 dac and you'll get better sound than a dac that costs many times the price. I guess any dac and any power cord will do.

 

 

Make similar power cord upgrades and add a USB Disruptor to the $1200 DAC, serve it 96/24 music, and it would would really take an expert listener to tell the difference between that setup and really any other DAC, at any price. And at that point, the testing isn't exactly objective. In the Digital game implementation is HUGE! Get it wrong and your expensive gear doesn't perform its best.

 

-Now we take the $1200 dac (Any dac will do, just as long as it costs $1200), plug a USB Disruptor into it, and it will sound just as good as anything at any cost. Sounds reasonable.

 

Get it right though and you get sound as good as anything at any price. You can always spend more on bigger amps and speakers but that's just going to be louder. Things can sound pretty darn awesome at 75 decibels. Orchestral crescendo's measure about 90 decibels. Sustained listening at 95 decibels causes irreversible hearing damage, just as an FYI. Live rock music 120 decibels. You can get these levels from most 50 watt per channel amplifiers with two to three driver speakers."

 

-Better amps and speakers will only get you more volume? I wish you would have told us that before I upgraded my system. I could have sworn that my new speakers sound different than my old ones.

 

You forgot this part...

 

"Noisy power is one of the chief causes of digital woes, and that means your DAC is affected so long as its plugged into a computer, and even into your wall outlet. It's hard to believe at first but it makes sense when you understand the properties of electromagnetic radiation and interference. Something I'm not ready to describe here!"

 

"Since you're using a CD player you should get a good quality Toslink cable and a DAC that has a Toslink input. For newbies that's fiber optic cable. You send the digital signal from your CD player to the DAC via the Toslink cable. And in doing so you completely bypass the dirty power from the wall that is clouding up the analog outputs of the CD player. Power doesn't travel down the optical cable, it's light! So it's the cleanest thing imaginable, to me anyway. It's just flickering light, how genius, just one's and zero's, light is on or off, so simple."

 

"Now, you need to get this pristine signal to your DAC chip and then to the analog outs of the DAC and to your Pre, and so on. If you have your DAC plugged into a standard shared outlet you have noise leaking in. That is why well engineered power cords make a sonic difference. They reduce the noise by what I think is inducing an electromagnetic pattern. The wires are typically configured in helical winds, perhaps that shapes an electromagnetic field that is somehow more stable than a straight wire in terms of noise. In a way it's more organized, more measured, so perhaps the noise is reorganized into the dominant signal or maybe diluted is the proper way to consider it."

 

He was taken to task on Agon as well but no reply. It's comedy, I guess.

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That is some funny shite! There are a lot of comedy threads out there at this time.

 

Couldn't agree with you more, but I did have a good laugh or two today, and I guess we all need that from time to time.

Next to the Word of God, the noble art of music is the greatest treasure in the world - Martin Luther

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Hello,

 

A few weeks ago I made an interesting experience with USB. I have at home a Supra AC sensor, it looks like a pen and detects electromagnetic radiation (EMR). It's used to detect the shielding quality of power cables and a red light is flashing when it detects EMR.

 

So I switched on my system : MacBookPro with USB cable to a Bekerley Alpha USB and then in AES from the Bekerley to my DAC.

 

What I saw :

 

- When the power supply of the Mac is plugged, the whole Mac emit strong EMR : all the metalic surface act as en emitter.

- The USB cable also on all its length

- Things become clear (no EMR) from the Bekerley to the DAC

 

Then I removed the power supply of the Mac and let it work on its battery :

 

- Absolutely no EMR detected on the Mac itself and on the USB cable.

 

So, to understand better, I plugged a special USB cable made with two separate conductors; one for the 5 volts only and the other for the datas (so two USB ports for the connection to the Mac and one to the Bekerley). Then I plugged again the power supply of the MAC :

 

- The whole Mac emits strong EMR : all the metalic surface act as en emitter.

- The USB cable with only 5V connected emits strong EMR

- The USB cable with only datas connected emits also strong EMR

- Things become clear (no EMR) from the Bekerley to the DAC.

 

Then I removed the power supply of the Mac and let it work on its battery :

 

- Absolutely no EMR detected on the Mac itself and on the USB cable.

 

 

What does it mean ? For me It means that even if you clean up the 5V of the USB cable, the datas will anyway remain polluted, so half of the problem will be solved. Now what I don't know it's if the pollution of the datas comes from the USB output plug of the Mac (because of the the proximity of the 5 volt cable in the same plug) or if it's polluted inside the computer. A good test would be to remove the 5V wires from one of the USB output plug on the Mac and on another USB output leave only the 5V and remove the datas wires. Then make again the test with the same Y USB cable.

 

My USB cable are pure silver and shielded. The Y cable has only datas connected on one cable and only 5V on the other.

 

Everybody can make this very simple test. What surprised me a lot is the intensity of the EMR coming from the MacBookPro, first, and then that the datas were as polluted as the 5 V. Fortunately, the Bekerley Alpha USB cleans an reclocks everything and the signal sent to the Dac is perfect. I can ear no difference with the Mac powered with its power supply or with its batteries (thanks to the bekerley?).

 

Obviously, the power supply of the Mac and its cable emits strong EMR.

Mac Book Pro 8Go RAM- 256 Go SSD (El Capitan - Pure Music + Audirvana + Dirac room corection) - Berkeley alpha USB - Dacs : Ayon CD5 + Shiit Yggdrasil - Isomax PC2XR - Preamp : Supratek Cortese - Power amps: Cary CAD 211 AE + Esoteric A03 - Integrated amp : Pathos Ethos - Speakers : Sonus Faber Stradivari Homage

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"What kind of comments do you mean? Don't mistake confidence with arrogance. I know what I know from experience. You can't discount what I hear. And being an audiophile you should know that not everything necessarily does what you think. Sometimes the sound changes without a good reason. Even humidity makes a difference."

 

Here's some advice you gave to someone looking for a good sounding inexpensive Dac.

 

"Bottom line, they make a difference so you should spend at least $150 on a power cord, maybe $200 on the DAC, and with that you might have a really great sounding setup, sounding as good as other DACs at many times the price. I'm serious, the sound you'll get at 16/44 for you paying $350, maybe $400 with the Toslink cable and a Sabre or Wolfson DAC, I would bet might equal or even best a $1200 DAC out of the box.

 

-Spend 150$ power cord to go on a $200 dac and you'll get better sound than a dac that costs many times the price. I guess any dac and any power cord will do.

 

Make similar power cord upgrades and add a USB Disruptor to the $1200 DAC, serve it 96/24 music, and it would would really take an expert listener to tell the difference between that setup and really any other DAC, at any price. And at that point, the testing isn't exactly objective. In the Digital game implementation is HUGE! Get it wrong and your expensive gear doesn't perform its best.

 

-Now we take the $1200 dac (Any dac will do, just as long as it costs $1200), plug a USB Disruptor into it, and it will sound just as good as anything at any cost. Sounds reasonable.

 

Get it right though and you get sound as good as anything at any price. You can always spend more on bigger amps and speakers but that's just going to be louder. Things can sound pretty darn awesome at 75 decibels. Orchestral crescendo's measure about 90 decibels. Sustained listening at 95 decibels causes irreversible hearing damage, just as an FYI. Live rock music 120 decibels. You can get these levels from most 50 watt per channel amplifiers with two to three driver speakers."

 

-Better amps and speakers will only get you more volume? I wish you would have told us that before I upgraded my system. I could have sworn that my new speakers sound different than my old ones.

 

 

I agree there is some hyperbole there, whenever I read my posts that include absolutist statements I realize I was just typing away and more caught up in the moment. But the advice I gave is good advice. The decibel figures are correct. In many ways amplifiers and speakers are about volume. They don't create signal, they represent signal, they represent signal from a source. It's the source that determines the output. Bad source, then output is compromised. What I'm saying with a usb disruptor type device is that the very source is where you need to begin. It should be fundamental to everyone here that the power from the computer is problematic, and that disrupting the pollution in some way, whether the way I have proposed, or another way, is going to be a necessary condition for having an accurate output. You must understand that the entire signal chain is compromised from the source. Everything downstream is affected. So unless you treat your USB output port with something, you're missing out.

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Hi, are you saying you can run the DAC on USB power alone but you need to plug it in for best performance? If that is the case you can use USB Disruptor to power the DAC and take the strain off the computer. That would be a good application to get rid of noise I think. If that's what you're saying.

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I don't understand why you do not provide some data regarding the effective filtering and protection of your power supply.

From what I can see, this is where most the cost of your USB Disruptor would be. Since the supply voltage is sourced from say 120 VAC and then converted to 5 VDC, it would be of some comfort to know that there is reliable circuit protection in place. How is the primary wall voltage isolated from the secondary supply voltage to the DAC and how well does it filter say ripple current? I think explaining how this is achieved may go a long way to ensuring some credibility of your product... At least that is my 2 cents

 

You're absolutely right! I took the specifications of the power supply off the website. I'm constantly changing it to get the message across. It's very fluid, we're doing new tests all the time and I'm hearing it more systems, and hearing the benefits. I'm going to add that back in somewhere, i have more technical details, some are trade secrets. But, the supply has the important safety features and more:

 

 

  • EMI CORES: Built-in EMI cores filters, Multiple circuit protections - over-current, short-circuit and over-temperature protect you device; AC 110-240V input voltage.

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You forgot this part...

 

"Noisy power is one of the chief causes of digital woes, and that means your DAC is affected so long as its plugged into a computer, and even into your wall outlet. It's hard to believe at first but it makes sense when you understand the properties of electromagnetic radiation and interference. Something I'm not ready to describe here!"

 

"Since you're using a CD player you should get a good quality Toslink cable and a DAC that has a Toslink input. For newbies that's fiber optic cable. You send the digital signal from your CD player to the DAC via the Toslink cable. And in doing so you completely bypass the dirty power from the wall that is clouding up the analog outputs of the CD player. Power doesn't travel down the optical cable, it's light! So it's the cleanest thing imaginable, to me anyway. It's just flickering light, how genius, just one's and zero's, light is on or off, so simple."

 

"Now, you need to get this pristine signal to your DAC chip and then to the analog outs of the DAC and to your Pre, and so on. If you have your DAC plugged into a standard shared outlet you have noise leaking in. That is why well engineered power cords make a sonic difference. They reduce the noise by what I think is inducing an electromagnetic pattern. The wires are typically configured in helical winds, perhaps that shapes an electromagnetic field that is somehow more stable than a straight wire in terms of noise. In a way it's more organized, more measured, so perhaps the noise is reorganized into the dominant signal or maybe diluted is the proper way to consider it."

 

He was taken to task on Agon as well but no reply. It's comedy, I guess.

 

 

I'll have to go to AGON and set the record straight there too I guess. I'm not sure what's wrong with this setup. It isolates really well, and if you have a good transport, which I do - collects dust now - its pretty darn good for 16/44 bro. So what exactly is your problem with these statements?

 

Do you actually doubt that helical winding can make a difference in the way the signal behaves? Check out Litz and get back to all of us with your analysis.

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Hello,

 

A few weeks ago I made an interesting experience with USB. I have at home a Supra AC sensor, it looks like a pen and detects electromagnetic radiation (EMR). It's used to detect the shielding quality of power cables and a red light is flashing when it detects EMR.

 

So I switched on my system : MacBookPro with USB cable to a Bekerley Alpha USB and then in AES from the Bekerley to my DAC.

 

What I saw :

 

- When the power supply of the Mac is plugged, the whole Mac emit strong EMR : all the metalic surface act as en emitter.

- The USB cable also on all its length

- Things become clear (no EMR) from the Bekerley to the DAC

 

Then I removed the power supply of the Mac and let it work on its battery :

 

- Absolutely no EMR detected on the Mac itself and on the USB cable.

 

So, to understand better, I plugged a special USB cable made with two separate conductors; one for the 5 volts only and the other for the datas (so two USB ports for the connection to the Mac and one to the Bekerley). Then I plugged again the power supply of the MAC :

 

- The whole Mac emits strong EMR : all the metalic surface act as en emitter.

- The USB cable with only 5V connected emits strong EMR

- The USB cable with only datas connected emits also strong EMR

- Things become clear (no EMR) from the Bekerley to the DAC.

 

Then I removed the power supply of the Mac and let it work on its battery :

 

- Absolutely no EMR detected on the Mac itself and on the USB cable.

 

 

What does it mean ? For me It means that even if you clean up the 5V of the USB cable, the datas will anyway remain polluted, so half of the problem will be solved. Now what I don't know it's if the pollution of the datas comes from the USB output plug of the Mac (because of the the proximity of the 5 volt cable in the same plug) or if it's polluted inside the computer. A good test would be to remove the 5V wires from one of the USB output plug on the Mac and on another USB output leave only the 5V and remove the datas wires. Then make again the test with the same Y USB cable.

 

My USB cable are pure silver and shielded. The Y cable has only datas connected on one cable and only 5V on the other.

 

Everybody can make this very simple test. What surprised me a lot is the intensity of the EMR coming from the MacBookPro, first, and then that the datas were as polluted as the 5 V. Fortunately, the Bekerley Alpha USB cleans an reclocks everything and the signal sent to the Dac is perfect. I can ear no difference with the Mac powered with its power supply or with its batteries (thanks to the bekerley?).

 

Obviously, the power supply of the Mac and its cable emits strong EMR.

 

 

The EMR doesn't affect the data like you think. The data is 1's and 0's as we all know. But the DAC, which decodes the signal, is looking for only two signals, the voltage that represents the 1, and the voltage that represents the 0. All other voltages are rejected. Think of that, it's very clean, that's why digital is so awesome! But the EMR coming from the power section, that part is different. If that leaks into the DAC then it causes the problems I've been writing about.

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"I agree there is some hyperbole there, whenever I read my posts that include absolutist statements I realize I was just typing away and more caught up in the moment."

 

That's your excuse? I may buy it if you maybe made 1 or 2 absolutist statements, but reading your posts, I have a hard time finding something that's not one. Do you even know what an absolutist statement is? I ask because right after you bring it up, you say this in the same paragraph.

 

" What I'm saying with a usb disruptor type device is that the very source is where you need to begin. It should be fundamental to everyone here that the power from the computer is problematic, and that disrupting the pollution in some way, whether the way I have proposed, or another way, is going to be a necessary condition for having an accurate output. You must understand that the entire signal chain is compromised from the source. Everything downstream is affected. So unless you treat your USB output port with something, you're missing out."

 

You never heard my system, or anyone else's for that matter. You're no one to judge if any of us are missing out because we didn't treat our usb ports. You're desperate to sell your product, and You'll say what ever you have to, so you can make a sale.

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"I agree there is some hyperbole there, whenever I read my posts that include absolutist statements I realize I was just typing away and more caught up in the moment."

 

That's your excuse? I may buy it if you maybe made 1 or 2 absolutist statements, but reading your posts, I have a hard time finding something that's not one. Do you even know what an absolutist statement is? I ask because right after you bring it up, you say this in the same paragraph.

 

" What I'm saying with a usb disruptor type device is that the very source is where you need to begin. It should be fundamental to everyone here that the power from the computer is problematic, and that disrupting the pollution in some way, whether the way I have proposed, or another way, is going to be a necessary condition for having an accurate output. You must understand that the entire signal chain is compromised from the source. Everything downstream is affected. So unless you treat your USB output port with something, you're missing out."

 

You never heard my system, or anyone else's for that matter. You're no one to judge if any of us are missing out because we didn't treat our usb ports. You're desperate to sell your product, and You'll say what ever you have to, so you can make a sale.

 

I hear you, but you're basically saying that all audiophile USB cable manufacturers, all the products meant to deal with dirty computer power, there are loads of them like Audiophilleo, Regen, Jitterbug, and anyone else that says dirty USB power is a problem, you're saying they are all just trying to make a sale because they are desperate, and saying whatever they have to say because they are so desperate to make a sale?

 

More likely there's really a problem here. If you don't believe the computer power is problematic then I don't know what to tell you. We manufacturers aren't asking for your blood, just a few dollars for a good product. There's so much evidence out there of the problem that what you say, on this forum, just seems really uninformed. If you're not looking at this area you are indeed missing out.

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I keep coming back here for a good laugh...can't help myself. The hole keeps getting deeper.

 

Well, I would like to know what i wrote that you think is controversial. Maybe there are steps you can take with a heavily modified computer. But those steps arent cost effective. What im talking about are solutions that have big payoffs in terms of results, that are easy to implement, and are pretty darn cost effective.

 

Why spend all that money on expensive power supplies for a computer when you can just disrupt it for a very low cost?

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"I hear you, but you're basically saying that all audiophile USB cable manufacturers, all the products meant to deal with dirty computer power, there are loads of them like Audiophilleo, Regen, Jitterbug, and anyone else that says dirty USB power is a problem, you're saying they are all just trying to make a sale because they are desperate, and saying whatever they have to say because they are so desperate to make a sale?"

 

No I'm not. My comments were directed at you, and only you.

 

"More likely there's really a problem here. If you don't believe the computer power is problematic then I don't know what to tell you."

 

More assumptions. You have no idea what I believe, and I don't need you to tell me anything. My system sounds great, and the people that designed my components don't need your help or your usb toy to make them sound good.

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"I hear you, but you're basically saying that all audiophile USB cable manufacturers, all the products meant to deal with dirty computer power, there are loads of them like Audiophilleo, Regen, Jitterbug, and anyone else that says dirty USB power is a problem, you're saying they are all just trying to make a sale because they are desperate, and saying whatever they have to say because they are so desperate to make a sale?"

 

No I'm not. My comments were directed at you, and only you.

 

"More likely there's really a problem here. If you don't believe the computer power is problematic then I don't know what to tell you."

 

More assumptions. You have no idea what I believe, and I don't need you to tell me anything. My system sounds great, and the people that designed my components don't need your help or your usb toy to make them sound good.

 

You bet, to each his own, happy listening...

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